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The Irish protocol.

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    #3512
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171692#Comment_118171692

    That’s my point. It is in no ones gift without OWC voting for it. You can vote for a Ui every day of the week but it is pointless if OWC doesn’t want it. Thanks to the BA



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    #3513
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172083#Comment_118172083

    I am so glad there is a bit of maturing going on. Augers well for the future

    hard to think of a colour we don’t like up here or one that doesn’t piss off republicans when we use it.

    they hate our green OWC jerseys

    they hate our orange sashes

    they hate purple linfield shirts

    they hate red, white & blue flags

    they hate red and yellow ulster flags

    not much left ?

    ooh, and they hate us black barstewards 😳



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    #3514
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172194#Comment_118172194

    Of course it would never dawn on you that all the things you mention above are emblems for toxic organisations or oppressors that nationalists had to deal with.

    It's not the colours at all.



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    #3515
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,314 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172194#Comment_118172194

    I think "they" would have an issue with the meaning behind those rather than their colour but you work with some of those people so surely you have sought to understand their views.

    Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/ .



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    #3516
    maebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭maebee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172175#Comment_118172175

    I don't see how this is antagonistic sh1te. Re our flag, the fact is that we chose the Green colour which represents us, the Orange colour which represents you, the Unionists, and the white represents peace. Inclusivity.



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    #3517
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172247#Comment_118172247

    Yeah yeah francie. Everything about my identity is toxic to you, even my national football team. We have all a long way to go



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    #3518
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172524#Comment_118172524

    No downcow...only those organisations that engaged in toxic oppression and sectarian bigotry.

    I was cheering heartily for the Irish team playing tonight, just like yourself. Reminded me of many many gallant performances by the other Irish team.



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    #3519
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172520#Comment_118172520

    Here is what francie said in response to light hearted banter I returned to another poster

    4F025045-D121-4D66-AFDE-8E27507ED97C.jpeg




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    #3520
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172520#Comment_118172520

    A lot of old fluffy nonsense.

    so republicans now own green as well.

    Green represents me and is my favourite colour. The team I adore wears green.

    Are you going to try and claim it as your own just like the language?

    Orange is not a colour that represents me. I would never dream of wearing an orange shirt.

    The arrogance of telling me that orange is my colour and green is yours. More b&w sectarian nonsense from republicans.



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    #3521
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172544#Comment_118172544

    I didn't understand it as banter downcow.

    That's why I started with 'Why?'

    Why would anyone have a problem with the colour Orange...Orange is only a problem when it stands for the Orange Order, a toxic sectarian organisation IMO and that of many others.



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    #3522
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172577#Comment_118172577

    the problems epitomised of growing up in a divided society



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    #3523
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172577#Comment_118172577

    Hardly an opinion, it's an objectively toxic, sectarian, hate-harbouring organisation.



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    #3524
    maebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭maebee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172575#Comment_118172575

    You may think it's fluffy nonsense but it is the meaning of the Irish flag. Whether you like it or not, we are including you:_ https://www.patriotwood.com/blogs/news/17779417-the-meaning-of-the-irish-flag-s-colors



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    #3525
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172607#Comment_118172607

    You can have your little dream but green is as much my colour as yours whether you like it or not. So you little plan doesn’t work.

    you are included in the union flag with the blue so you should embrace that.



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    #3526
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172607#Comment_118172607

    This is what your own quote says

    Unfortunately, it became seen as a symbol of division in the unionist-dominated Northern Ireland, who continue to use the British Union flag. Despite its original intent, it remains a source of division in the nation today.



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    #3527
    maebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭maebee


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172650#Comment_118172650

    I don't have any dream DC, or any plan. I'm just stating the fact that our flag is about inclusiveness. It includes you. That is all.



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    #3528
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172650#Comment_118172650

    Nobody is blocking you owning the green downcow...work away, have as much of it as you want. Can't say I blame you.😉



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    #3529
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172650#Comment_118172650

    Nitpick: The blue in the union flag represents Scotland, not Ireland. It's the field on which the St. Andrew's cross is displayed. It was in the flag of the Kingdom of Great Britain from 1707, well before the union with Ireland.

    Ireland is represented by the red diagonal cross partly superimposed on the St. Andrew's cross. (Although now, of course, that is considered to represent only Northern Ireland.)

    original[1].png


    Post edited by Peregrinus on


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    #3530
    fash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171618#Comment_118171618

    As a non-EU economically weaker UK becomes less & less capable of funding NI, & the costs of brexit mount, that will change.

    Remember those who want to vote for a United Ireland only need to be lucky once, you need to be lucky all the time.



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    #3531
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172902#Comment_118172902

    The UK has a treaty obligation (under the GFA) to maintain NI as part of the UK so long as a majority of the population of NI wish it. Because this is set out in an international treaty, it's not something the UK can change unilaterally.

    I take your point about a Brexit-impoverished Westminster being less and less willing to subsidise NI on the lavish scale on which it has in recent years, but per the GFA simply dumping NI to avoid the cost isn't an option open to them.

    (We should also bear in mind that NI is doing quite well out of the protocol. A foreseeable consequence is that, if the GB economy continues to be constrained by hard Brexit and NI continues to benefit from the protocol, NI's dependency on funding from GB may diminish.)



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    #3532
    fash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172908#Comment_118172908

    It's not a case of the UK actively dumping NI, it's that if the middle ground in NI sees that there is economically little for them remaining in the UK, objections such as "NHS v HSE" become less valid.



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    #3533
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172922#Comment_118172922

    I don't think questions of national identity and attitudes to the union are affected very much, or at all, by purely economic considerations. Westminster misgovernment in/disdain for/contempt towards NI could cause some to reevaluate their attitude to the union, but budgetary difficulties in Westminster, however severely impacting on service delivery in NI, are most unlikely to have that effect.



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    #3534
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172841#Comment_118172841

    Oh I know that. I chose the blue to represent you Irish and told meebee that that was the case to demonstrate to her how ridiculous it was for her to tell me that northern Irish were represented by the colour orange.

    I know francie etc have rowed in behind her, but do you see how arrogant and rediculous it is for Irish people to tell northern Irish people that they are represented by the colour orange, whether they like/feel it or not?



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    #3535
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172721#Comment_118172721

    Incorrect francie. Read the last few posts again - meebee was



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    #3536
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,437 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172935#Comment_118172935

    I don't think it's ridiculous at all. If the artist/designer/whatever who creates an image/design/whatever includes a particular feature that he or she intends to represent (say) downcow, and the people who look at the image/design/whatever see that feature and understand it to represent downcow, then it does represent downcow. That's pretty much what "represent" means.

    Recall that the tricolour long predates the partition of Ireland. It goes back to 1848 and was consciously modelled on the French tricolour, but the colours were chosen to symbolise the Catholic/Gaelic and the Scots/Ulster/Presbyterian communities. (Conspicuously missing is anything representing the Anglo-Irish Anglican establishment. 😊) At that time the Ulster/Presbyterian community was not seen as especially unionist or loyalist; both Catholics and Dissenters had been disadvantaged under the Anglo ascendancy; Protestant Ulster had been a stronghold of republicanism, and particularly active in the 1798 rebellion. The identification of Ulster and loyalism/unionism didn't develop until well into the second half of the nineteenth century, and I think occurred in response to Irish nationalism/republicanism developing an increasingly Catholic identity.



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    #3537
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    This A United ireland is not in anyone’s gift except the people of OWC

    and this It is in no ones gift without OWC voting for it

    Is not the same point.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172935#Comment_118172935

    I'm sure you can point out where Maebee (again another name you spelt incorrectly) said that orange represents Northern Ireland and not Unionists. Or are you arguing that orange isn't a colour that represents Unionists?

    And to finish up, are you saying you lied to say that the blue on the union jack represent Ireland?



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    #3538
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,355 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172936#Comment_118172936

    Gas man.

    You take ownership all the time here. Your 'banter' tried to own the orange when in fact the orange belongs to and is a part of us all.

    I bet if any one could summon the interest to ask, your 'ownership' of the green is a very select part of what green represents in the flag.



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    #3539
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173010#Comment_118173010

    Orange is absolutely not the colour that represents unionists.

    here is what maebee said “the fact is that we chose the Green colour which represents us, the Orange colour which represents you, the Unionists, and the white represents peace. Inclusivity.”

    maybe it is actually more sad than antagonistic. You guys are so arrogant on this issue that you don’t even see it. Maebee is telling me that ‘we’ (i’m guessing she means republicans) ‘chose’ green 😂 and then they told me and the unionists that the colour they were allocating to us was orange 😂

    guys read this and absorb it and tell me you are for real.

    I have no more association with orange than I do the rainbow flag. I am warm towards the OO and lgbt but I am not a member of either grouping.

    how about we split up the tricolour differently how about the northern Irish own the green as it is the colour of our international teams, and the Irish own the white as they don’t fight in any allied wars against facism, and the orange can be for a sunshiny future for all of us (and the colour of your football shirt)

    would that be any more arrogant or ridiculous?

    guys it’s just where yous are looking from (prejudice)



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    #3540
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172995#Comment_118172995

    This falls down as orangism is much more associated with Anglicanism than Presbyterianism.



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    #3541
    downcow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,424 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118173010#Comment_118173010

    Sorry I missed your last point.

    no I didn’t lie. I just assigned the blue in the union flag to the oirish - same way they seem to have assigned orange to me.

    maebee should feel honoured that I give her a colour to own 🙄

    ps that was my first purposeful misspelling ever on this forum - and it was just light humour.



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