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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    resistance to nuclear is clearly obvious why....

    again, modern political and economic ideologies effectively dictates that taxation on wealth should be reduced as much as possible, eradicated if possible, and directed towards labor and consumption, thats you!

    whos dictating what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,463 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    People on this thread complaining about the cost of acting on climate change will get a very rude awakening when they see the true cost of not having acted in time.

    That's all fine but if the government don't make it easy and affordable to switch then people simply won't because they can't afford to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    best of luck with getting nuclear over the line here, i cant see that happening in my life time, if ever, even when i agree with it

    taxation alone wont work, and certainly the way its been used, primarily towards the average punter, its just gonna keep p1ssing people off, and that simply wont work....

    unfortunately since we wont go nuclear, fossil fuels are here to stay, for the time being anyway....

    its clearly obvious, the encouragement of the increasing of herd numbers, was in fact the most idiotic policy to ever be implemented, no surprise who has been in government for that one! farming needs to change, and quickly, but appropriate supports need to be put in place, to prevent farmers from going under, as most would have substantial debts etc. forcing people into cities, well thats just stupid.... it ll be a long time before most of us cant afford cars, so wouldn't be worrying about that one.... not all journeys can be made by bicycle, and most still arent, and probably wont be for a long time, if ever..... we ll be still eating meat for the foreseeable.....

    let them bury their heads....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    ah here will you relax with the scaremongering....you do know that the seas have risen 400 feet in the last 18,000 years so another 7.2mm per year is not big a worry. sea levels have risen and fallen since time began and so have temperatures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I can't speak for the greens, but Eamon Ryan has consistently 'not ruled out' nuclear power for Ireland whenever he was asked recently.

    If you know of any credible plans to build a nuclear power station in Ireland then send them to Eamon and I'm sure he'll get back to you on them.

    Or are you suggesting the government should set up a feasibility study or a new quango to investigate nuclear for Ireland? We all know how long these things take and how expensive they end up becoming.

    In the Meantime, the greens and all other political parties are perfectly happy importing Nuclear power into Ireland via interconnectors with the UK and Europe. And i wish they would hurry up and get past the planning roadblocks that are blocking the European interconnector for so long

    On a side note, if we can't even get an interconnector through the planning process, how long do you think a Nuclear plant would be held up by objections from every crank within a hundred miles of any proposed site

    The 'obsession with taxes' is just a bullsh1t talking point that people spew out to object to action on climate change

    No politician likes to be seen to be responsible for tax rises, so its very easy for every party to blame the greens for carbon taxes etc even when the greens aren't in government

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes, so the fight should be about making it politically impossible for the government to try to get individuals to cover the bill for necessary upgrades to prevent climate change.

    The government must be held to their committments, but also cannot make it the responsibility of householders to foot the bill.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,463 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The Climate Action Plan requires that individuals foot most of the bill through debt. Have you challenged your TDs on this and what did they say?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm about as pro-nuclear as they come, but not sure it makes much sense in Ireland. I do not have an ideological issue with being energy dependent so investing in wind and interconnectors to import/export energy as appropriate seems the most sensible approach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Will Ryan's cronyism be centrestage tomorrow, will we get a performance similar to his defence of WeeWillie



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They could, but it would require a pretty catastrophic breakdown in relationship. It is a pretty cataclysmic move and certainly would not be something that happened lightly. Nor, frankly, would it be remotely likely while we are both within the EU.

    It is a risk, technically, but decarbonization is going to require a global effort. Ireland has wind, let's use it and sell it the continent. When its not windy, let's buy some nuclear power from France.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Now we have newstalk doing an interview there now where the breakfast roll should be banned to save the planet.


    Nothing about the carbon footprint of the almond latte and a avocado smashed breakfast flown half way around the world....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    you are aware a large proportion of the herd is heading for the killing floor anyway, as thats what theyre being breed for? where is everyone being turned into a vegan, we ll be eating meat for the foreseeable, as we ll still be able to produce and import it???? where are farmers being pushed into cities? what one child policies?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You genuinely think that would be a serious referendum?

    Maybe you should get a Job with the Tory party across the pond

    I think you would find that nuclear may be rejected in a referendum, not least because the argument against it would be dominated by pictures of Fukushima's exclusion zone, as well as scare stories about the massively escalating cost of nuclear projects worldwide


    image.png

    Even if nuclear was viable in Ireland, which it may or may not be, it's a political quagmire and I don't think we have the economies of scale to justify that level of investment (in both political and financial capital)

    Even if we decided today, that we were definitely going to build a nuclear power station in Ireland, we are at the very least 15 years from cutting the ribbon. and we're very very far from making that decision.

    The Dublin Array wind farm is a 900mw installed capacity (more than most nuclear power plants) , and this is funded and plans are well underway to deliver this within the next 5 years (the planning phase, as usual in Ireland, is the slowest part). The cost of this is €1.5bn.

    Compare this with Hinkley C in the UK, which will have 3000mw installed capacity at a cost of €32 Billion, and that's with an existing nuclear infrastructure in the UK, which we do not have.

    We can build 6900mw of renewable energy from offshore wind for half the cost of 1 Hinkley C complex, and use the spare 11.5 billion to build 10 more high capacity interconnectors to Europe so we can sell our excess electricity when it's windy, and buy nuclear power from France when it's calm

    The only possibly worthwhile Nuclear solution would be some of them new fangled small modular reactors but these are not proven technology yet and there isn't a single instance of one operating commercially anywhere, so you'd be arguing to bring in an experimental unproven nuclear reactor into ireland. Good luck getting planning for that.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,130 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Nowhere in the climate action plan does it say that anyone is going to be forced to do retrofits of their properties against their will

    The climate action plan announced 125bn in funding to transition Ireland to low carbon with a reduction in emissions of 50% by 2030. This is nowhere near enough IMO, but the government are not forcing anyone to do anything.

    It does commit to fully fund retrofits for low income households and provide grants and subsidies for those who 'wish to participate'

    As we get past 2030, and we're looking to get our emissions down to zero, then people will be naturally replacing and upgrading ageing buildings just as part of their normal maintenance. By then we will be phasing out the use of fossil fuels and we can talk about who pays for these upgrades at that point in time

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We're in the EU. If the French started blockading our electricity supply then we would have much bigger problems on our hands.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we dont need such a referendum, that would just be wasting more time, and money.

    authoritarian! say wha! maybe take a trip to russia, or somewhere like that, just to find out what that actually means!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    As we go balls deep in offshore wind, it looks like its not the silver bullet the greens thought it was....

    https://fortune.com/2021/09/16/the-u-k-went-all-in-on-wind-power-never-imaging-it-would-one-day-stop-blowing/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,463 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    It didn't announce €125bn in funding at all. The €125bn reference is to be largely funded by the private sector i.e. you and me through debt and taxation. From the Plan:

    In order to meet Ireland’s climate and energy targets for 2030, it is necessary to direct private sector investments towards meeting the targets and objectives of this Climate Action Plan. This investment will need to be financed. We are taking the lead in developing innovative approaches to financing our decarbonisation objectives and are committed, for example, to rolling out a residential loan guarantee scheme. To meet the scale of this challenge, the financial sector will also need to bring innovative solutions to the market.

    While low income households will get most of the support, it's fantasy to believe that middle income households will take on all this debt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭SupplyandDemandZone


    Human beings will not save the human race. The planet will chew us up, spit us out and move on. We've done well to get this far actually



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well they also probably should not have shut down their nuclear reactors. Ultimately relying on Russia and relying on France are not exactly the same thing either.

    Ireland is not realistically ever going to be energy independent with renewable sources due to the inherent instability of them. I'd rather be relying on French nuclear than burning peat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,263 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It can be done if it is planned properly. Defeatism gets us nowhere

    It requires backup which can be nuclear, provided by building interconnections to Europe which we would need to sell surplus power anyway.

    Or we can use surplus power to charge batteries, (eg iron oxide batteries for multi day grid level storage) or we could create hydrogen from electrolysis which can be burned or used to power fuel cells..

    There are lots of options, we just need to pick the solution that makes the most economic sense for ireland

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,238 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    They won't look at the nuclear option here even though it makes sense.

    The Greens are too stupid to even consider it.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've posted this before whenever this topic is brought up and I'll post it again because any plan to bring nuclear power production to the island of Ireland will die in the attempt to answer the questions below

    Specifically:

    • What locality do you put it in without insane objections? Objections would be fierce at the local, county, provincial and national levels so how do you get around that?
    • A 1 GW nuclear power plant will generate 27 tonnes of waste per year of operation. What is the long term (multi-millennia) plan for the storage of the waste that will be both secure and not risk impacting the water table?
    • How will that storage be paid for over that time?
    • Where will the waste storage location be?
    • How will the waste be transported and what route will it take where that route won't be blocked by objectors not wanting the material to pass through their area?
    • Same as above for the fuel.
    • How do you justify the spend on it or even garner any investment for it, when it's LCOE is way worse than almost all other alternatives?

    Everything else is irrelevant if you can't address the above questions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,091 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    And it's been answered elsewhere. The problem of nuclear waste is an assertion, not a fact. I'ts been stated to be a problem for more than half a century, yet the waste has been created and stored. Anything you can put on the long finger for decades isn't a real problem, it's a problem in waiting, at worst. Real problems, like power outages, tend to be dealt with promptly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    I will agree with you for the simple reason you pointed out in your first point, not a hope in hell will any county agree to a nuclear station, end of the story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,741 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    On individual car ownership, I reckon people will choose not to own a car rather than not be able to afford them. When autonomous cars start hitting the streets in numbers it'll only be a matter of time before people can buy into a pool of vehicles. It makes no sense for 100 people to own 100 cars that sit on their driveway 80-90% of the time when they can have a lesser number of cars sitting parked within five minutes of all 100 people reader to be summoned at a moment's notice. Car ownership might remain a fact of life for rural dwellers, but it makes little sense to own a car in the city.


    One thing I really don't like is the government subsidising the cost of insulating with grants. It means only people with some money can afford to avail of the grant and make their homes more efficient. This means the less well off are disproportionally hit with increasing carbon taxes to heat their homes while people with the means can drastically reduce their fuel/electricity bills.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BBC News - How Covid conspiracists are shifting to climate change denial

    In for a penny....



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