Motor vs E-Scooter crash: Liability and reporting procedure?

ShadeRunner · 11-11-2021 10:21am #1

Apologies in advance if this is answered elsewhere ...

Got into a small accident recently ... inching towards stop junction when I heard a "crunch" and noticed I'd clipped an e-scooter with my front left wheel. Sunny day, disoriented and confused; I made sure the passenger (young student nurse) was alright (she was), threw the scooter in my trunk. Drove her to work and dropped it off at a repair shop for her. She was unharmed but obviously upset and shaken, as was I. But I promised if it couldn't be repaired, I'd replace the scooter.

In my shock/panic/relief, I assumed I was entirely to blame here. But just reading up on e-scooters ... am I right in thinking they're actually illegal? I know she didn't have tax, insurance or a any kind of driving license. And she was also riding it on the wrong side of the road (pavement possibly adjacent cycle lane).

Through (failed) repairs and replacement, I'm now out ~€500. But money aside, has anyone had any similar experiences? Did you go to the guards or insurance? Would appreciate any practical experience on this for future reference.

Cheers

a_squirrelman · 11-11-2021 10:29am

I guess you shouldn't drive on the pavement and should check your mirrors too.

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2021 10:46am

whether she was illegal doesn't absolve you of responsibility. would you think you are not responsible if you hit a car with no tax or insurance? you hit a stationary vehicle. you are responsible for making this right whether out of your own pocket or via your insurance.

[Deleted User] · 11-11-2021 11:03am

You damaged it, you fix it. Whether they are legal to drive on the public road or otherwise is irrelevant.

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2021 11:14am

also, if you report them to the guards for driving an illegal vehicle the guard might take the view that hitting a stationary vehicle qualifies as careless driving on your behalf.

Flinty997 · 11-11-2021 11:23am

They are illegal.

That said this had the potential to get very messy. Even if not at fault, your insurance could penalize you will there is a open claim costing you a lot. They won't refund you even if you found not to be at fault.

Advice. Be very careful where there are bikes and eScooters around. I actaully avoid some junctions because there is a lot of cycle (or eScooter traffic) and the potential for collision is high.

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149938#Comment_118149938

The OP is definitely at fault. they hit a stationary vehicle. the legal status of the other vehicle doesn't change this.

bladespin · 11-11-2021 11:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149938#Comment_118149938

They’re not when they’re stationary at a junction.

Flinty997 · 11-11-2021 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149947#Comment_118149947

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150077#Comment_118150077

If I park a skip with wheels in the middle of the road, at a junction, it does not make it a vehicle or legal.

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2021 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150313#Comment_118150313

it wasn't a skip in the middle of the road. it was another road user that was stationary. that they were untaxed and uninsured doesn't affect the liability of the person driving the car. If they hit another car that wasn't taxed or insured they would still be liable for the accident.

Flinty997 · 11-11-2021 1:12pm

But wasn't a car. It was a device with no legal classification, or status. That's not true of a car. Its still illegal on a road.

Not that it has any effect on lability. You could claim they hit a pedestrian. Except they weren't a pedestrian either. Regardless they would claim of the drivers insurance. So this is a question of insurance. Since the driver is the only party in this scenario that has any. if the rider develops other injuries, they could still come back and claim off the driver.

ohnonotgmail · 11-11-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150565#Comment_118150565

irrespective of it's legal classification or lack of the OP is the one at fault. And they should claim off the OPs insurance if the OP doesn't make them good out of their own pocket. The OP is responsible for the damage caused and any injuries sustained.

cnocbui · 11-11-2021 1:38pm

Has anyone actually read the OP? He/she not only forked out for an attempted repair, they replaced the scooter.

vandriver · 11-11-2021 2:16pm

Getting out of any collision for €500 without insurance being involved must be chalked up as a result.

TigerTim · 11-11-2021 5:38pm

Think the OP did the correct thing & sorted the issue. Just out of curiosity, what is the position with e-scooters. I'm seeing more & more of them on the road. Some can travel quite fast. I guess there's no insurance & probably no way of getting insurance. Also see a guy on an electric skateboard in my area & he gets up to a fair speed on it. Great fun but I wouldn't like to fall of it or hit anything.

T.

Spook_ie · 11-11-2021 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149719#Comment_118149719

Not strictly true about being stationary absolving you of liability, check the following

https://www.scottrees.com/road-traffic-accident-liability/

unfortunately the video link is defunct but as stated you can't assume a stationary road user bears no liability

Flinty997 · 11-11-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151960#Comment_118151960

It not legal to use them in Public spaces, roads, paths etc. You can use them on private ground. If you could register them you, could get tax and insurance. But since you can't, well you can't.

Though its not illegal to stand there holding one. Which was implied earlier. Though I assume the rider in the OP story wasn't carrying it across the road. :)

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 2:02am

Thanks for all the feedback, replacing the scooter and no-one injured seems like the best outcome. I think in future it might be best to leave it to the guards/insurance.

just to clarify; I was inching towards a stop junction, aiming to turn left. The escooter was in motion, on the road perpendicular to me, at speed, and on the wrong side of the road. So she came from my left whilst i was looking out for oncoming traffic from my right before pulling out. She crashed into me.

Thanks again, first crash involving a (potential) injury so the comments are much appreciated.

TheChizler · 12-11-2021 2:09am

That's very different from clipping the scooter on the pavement with your left wheel in your OP.

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 2:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154392#Comment_118154392

Apologies again … I was trying not to over complicate the incident, should have provided more details.

does it actually change anything though? It reads like anything to do with escooters is in a legal grey area regardless of who is at fault(

[Deleted User] · 12-11-2021 9:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154387#Comment_118154387

Why would you lose your NCB for €500 when the end result would be exactly the same?

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154642#Comment_118154642

Exactly this … first crash/incident, and no clue about escooters, so I’d no frame of reference.

I wondered would it have gone any differently under the circumstances. It seems mad that if one vehicle was travelling the other way, all liability would be on the car. Again, ignorance of claims on my part.

magicbastarder · 12-11-2021 10:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151996#Comment_118151996

that link is of no benefit - the case in question of someone opening a car door without looking, into traffic. given that there was a significant moving part of the car, it'd be disingenuous to claim it applies in collisions involving 'stationary' cars.

[Deleted User] · 12-11-2021 10:08am

Your OP is probably doing you a disservice considering your subsequent posts- you’ve gone from clipping the scooter on the pavement to her crashing into you- just shows how an accident can affect judgement and how good the advice is of never admit liability at the scene of an accident .

Hard to know how your insurance company would have dealt with it but if she claimed you hit her, considering she has no insurance and the claim would have been relatively small it may well have gone in her favour.

Just reminds me I need to buy a dash cam one of these days

Del2005 · 12-11-2021 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154394#Comment_118154394

Unless you have a dash cam the motorist will always be blamed for causing an RTC with vulnerable road users, even if the vulnerable road user was acting illegally.

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 10:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154721#Comment_118154721

Fair. Hence the “leave it to the Guards” line of thinking. Shock of nearly hurting someone had me promising taxis, scooter replacement, and a new house 😅 … sounds ridiculous, but in that state I couldn’t figure out HOW I didn’t see her. It just didn’t dawn on me until the shock wore off.

freddyuk · 12-11-2021 10:17am

Never admit liability at the scene of an accident! It is your insurers who are responsible for sorting out liability and admitting liability yourself leaves them no opportunity to "prove" liability in the courts as you have taken responsibility on their behalf. You are obliged to hand over insurance details and that is it. If there is an injury I believe you have to wait for the Garda to attend. If the injured party decides to claim for personal injury or damages you will be liable to pay with no defence and that could be quite a lot of money. It is not a time to be "nice". Check your own insurance policy small print.

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154732#Comment_118154732

Cheers. Nicely summarised.

ShadeRunner · 12-11-2021 10:43am

Really appreciate all the feedback, cheers.

Lesson learned. Will keep my mouth shut, and chat to insurer and/or guards in future. And order a dashcam!

I’m more worried for the girl on that thing TBH. She wasn’t aware she’d done anything wrong. The speed at which they can travel but no insurance, or protective gear etc is a recipe for disaster IMHO

Miscreant · 12-11-2021 10:49am

There is a push by the Government at the moment to formally allow e-scooters on the roads so they will not be a legal quagmire for long:

Government approves legislation to allow for e-scooters in public spaces (thejournal.ie)

[Deleted User] · 12-11-2021 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118154853#Comment_118154853

Did you provide your insurance details to her? Do you think replacing her scooter is the end of the matter in her mind? It sounds like it to me but considering there’s plenty of people out there that would view this as a prime opportunity for a handsome payout you can probably thank your luck stars she’s not dishonest.

While not admitting liability is sound advice, acting with care and concern can often positively influence the person not to pursue anything beyond what’s fair- had you been aggressive with her I’ve no doubt she would be claiming all sorts on your insurance so leaving aside the admitting liability you did well in terms of how you treated her given your shock.

Motor vs E-Scooter crash: Liability and reporting procedure?

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