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Motor vs E-Scooter crash: Liability and reporting procedure?

  • 11-11-2021 9:21am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Apologies in advance if this is answered elsewhere ...


    Got into a small accident recently ... inching towards stop junction when I heard a "crunch" and noticed I'd clipped an e-scooter with my front left wheel. Sunny day, disoriented and confused; I made sure the passenger (young student nurse) was alright (she was), threw the scooter in my trunk. Drove her to work and dropped it off at a repair shop for her. She was unharmed but obviously upset and shaken, as was I. But I promised if it couldn't be repaired, I'd replace the scooter.

    In my shock/panic/relief, I assumed I was entirely to blame here. But just reading up on e-scooters ... am I right in thinking they're actually illegal? I know she didn't have tax, insurance or a any kind of driving license. And she was also riding it on the wrong side of the road (pavement possibly adjacent cycle lane).

    Through (failed) repairs and replacement, I'm now out ~€500. But money aside, has anyone had any similar experiences? Did you go to the guards or insurance? Would appreciate any practical experience on this for future reference.


    Cheers



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭ a_squirrelman
    Registered User


    I guess you shouldn't drive on the pavement and should check your mirrors too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,404 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail
    Registered User


    whether she was illegal doesn't absolve you of responsibility. would you think you are not responsible if you hit a car with no tax or insurance? you hit a stationary vehicle. you are responsible for making this right whether out of your own pocket or via your insurance.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You damaged it, you fix it. Whether they are legal to drive on the public road or otherwise is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,404 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail
    Registered User


    also, if you report them to the guards for driving an illegal vehicle the guard might take the view that hitting a stationary vehicle qualifies as careless driving on your behalf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User


    They are illegal.

    That said this had the potential to get very messy. Even if not at fault, your insurance could penalize you will there is a open claim costing you a lot. They won't refund you even if you found not to be at fault.

    Advice. Be very careful where there are bikes and eScooters around. I actaully avoid some junctions because there is a lot of cycle (or eScooter traffic) and the potential for collision is high.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,404 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail
    Registered User


    The OP is definitely at fault. they hit a stationary vehicle. the legal status of the other vehicle doesn't change this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,167 ✭✭✭ bladespin
    Registered User


    They’re not when they’re stationary at a junction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User



    If I park a skip with wheels in the middle of the road, at a junction, it does not make it a vehicle or legal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,404 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail
    Registered User


    it wasn't a skip in the middle of the road. it was another road user that was stationary. that they were untaxed and uninsured doesn't affect the liability of the person driving the car. If they hit another car that wasn't taxed or insured they would still be liable for the accident.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User


    But wasn't a car. It was a device with no legal classification, or status. That's not true of a car. Its still illegal on a road.

    Not that it has any effect on lability. You could claim they hit a pedestrian. Except they weren't a pedestrian either. Regardless they would claim of the drivers insurance. So this is a question of insurance. Since the driver is the only party in this scenario that has any. if the rider develops other injuries, they could still come back and claim off the driver.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,404 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail
    Registered User


    irrespective of it's legal classification or lack of the OP is the one at fault. And they should claim off the OPs insurance if the OP doesn't make them good out of their own pocket. The OP is responsible for the damage caused and any injuries sustained.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭ TigerTim
    Registered User


    Think the OP did the correct thing & sorted the issue. Just out of curiosity, what is the position with e-scooters. I'm seeing more & more of them on the road. Some can travel quite fast. I guess there's no insurance & probably no way of getting insurance. Also see a guy on an electric skateboard in my area & he gets up to a fair speed on it. Great fun but I wouldn't like to fall of it or hit anything.


    T.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,617 ✭✭✭✭ Spook_ie
    Registered User


    Not strictly true about being stationary absolving you of liability, check the following


    unfortunately the video link is defunct but as stated you can't assume a stationary road user bears no liability



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,230 ✭✭✭ Flinty997
    Registered User


    It not legal to use them in Public spaces, roads, paths etc. You can use them on private ground. If you could register them you, could get tax and insurance. But since you can't, well you can't.

    Though its not illegal to stand there holding one. Which was implied earlier. Though I assume the rider in the OP story wasn't carrying it across the road. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Thanks for all the feedback, replacing the scooter and no-one injured seems like the best outcome. I think in future it might be best to leave it to the guards/insurance.

    just to clarify; I was inching towards a stop junction, aiming to turn left. The escooter was in motion, on the road perpendicular to me, at speed, and on the wrong side of the road. So she came from my left whilst i was looking out for oncoming traffic from my right before pulling out. She crashed into me.


    Thanks again, first crash involving a (potential) injury so the comments are much appreciated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,003 ✭✭✭ TheChizler
    Registered User


    That's very different from clipping the scooter on the pavement with your left wheel in your OP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Apologies again … I was trying not to over complicate the incident, should have provided more details.

    does it actually change anything though? It reads like anything to do with escooters is in a legal grey area regardless of who is at fault(



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why would you lose your NCB for €500 when the end result would be exactly the same?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Exactly this … first crash/incident, and no clue about escooters, so I’d no frame of reference.

    I wondered would it have gone any differently under the circumstances. It seems mad that if one vehicle was travelling the other way, all liability would be on the car. Again, ignorance of claims on my part.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,511 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder
    Moderator


    that link is of no benefit - the case in question of someone opening a car door without looking, into traffic. given that there was a significant moving part of the car, it'd be disingenuous to claim it applies in collisions involving 'stationary' cars.



  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Arian Orange Armchair
    Registered User


    Your OP is probably doing you a disservice considering your subsequent posts- you’ve gone from clipping the scooter on the pavement to her crashing into you- just shows how an accident can affect judgement and how good the advice is of never admit liability at the scene of an accident .

    Hard to know how your insurance company would have dealt with it but if she claimed you hit her, considering she has no insurance and the claim would have been relatively small it may well have gone in her favour.

    Just reminds me I need to buy a dash cam one of these days



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005
    Registered User


    Unless you have a dash cam the motorist will always be blamed for causing an RTC with vulnerable road users, even if the vulnerable road user was acting illegally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Fair. Hence the “leave it to the Guards” line of thinking. Shock of nearly hurting someone had me promising taxis, scooter replacement, and a new house 😅 … sounds ridiculous, but in that state I couldn’t figure out HOW I didn’t see her. It just didn’t dawn on me until the shock wore off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭ freddyuk
    Registered User


    Never admit liability at the scene of an accident! It is your insurers who are responsible for sorting out liability and admitting liability yourself leaves them no opportunity to "prove" liability in the courts as you have taken responsibility on their behalf. You are obliged to hand over insurance details and that is it. If there is an injury I believe you have to wait for the Garda to attend. If the injured party decides to claim for personal injury or damages you will be liable to pay with no defence and that could be quite a lot of money. It is not a time to be "nice". Check your own insurance policy small print.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 42 ShadeRunner
    Registered User


    Really appreciate all the feedback, cheers.

    Lesson learned. Will keep my mouth shut, and chat to insurer and/or guards in future. And order a dashcam!

    I’m more worried for the girl on that thing TBH. She wasn’t aware she’d done anything wrong. The speed at which they can travel but no insurance, or protective gear etc is a recipe for disaster IMHO



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭ Miscreant
    Registered User


    There is a push by the Government at the moment to formally allow e-scooters on the roads so they will not be a legal quagmire for long:

    Government approves legislation to allow for e-scooters in public spaces (thejournal.ie)



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  • Posts: 8,860 ✭✭✭ Arian Orange Armchair
    Registered User


    Did you provide your insurance details to her? Do you think replacing her scooter is the end of the matter in her mind? It sounds like it to me but considering there’s plenty of people out there that would view this as a prime opportunity for a handsome payout you can probably thank your luck stars she’s not dishonest.

    While not admitting liability is sound advice, acting with care and concern can often positively influence the person not to pursue anything beyond what’s fair- had you been aggressive with her I’ve no doubt she would be claiming all sorts on your insurance so leaving aside the admitting liability you did well in terms of how you treated her given your shock.



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