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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭ RobMc59

    If you call having the 2nd largest economy in Europe and having Brussels on the backfoot over the NI protocol `death by a thousand cuts`I`d have to disagree with you.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,009 ✭✭✭✭ kowloon

    This raises a question: What is the best way of judging relative wealth? If you go by something like GDP per capita the UK would rank 15th and dropping. But I don't know much about economics and I've heard it said that GDP doesn't work as a metric with the way economies work now. Someone enlighten me.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭ 20silkcut

    He also demanded of the British a return of all tax collected in Ireland between 1800 and 1922.

    We are still waiting.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭ yagan

    That is no way comparable. The country had endured centuries of asset stripping and the ground rent stance was entirely justified. It was basis for building capital rather than continuing to be sucked by offshore landlords.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    It was not ground rent - it was land annuities. Land annuities were mortgages that allowed farm tenants to buy out the landlord, covered by the Gov - British at the time but Dev claimed the Irish Gov was the true owner of these annuities.

    Ground rents still pertain in Ireland, but can be bought out a high cost by the ground tenant but the buy out cannot be forced by the ground landlord - an oversight in the law. If I as a ground landlord (which I am not) own a hundred ground leases each of £15 per annum which are not currently being paid, I could recoup about €100,000 if I could get them all sold, but under current arrangements, I cannot. Nor can I force the tenant to pay as the cost of court action would exceed the benefit - so the ground landlord can only wait for the clock to tick out on the lease - perhaps 99 years, or 999 years.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    With the likes of Clarkson and Dyson and many more buying up agricultural land with their fortunes, no wonder the price is rising.

    If I had a spare few million, I would be out there buying - you cannot lose in the long term.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭ yagan

    Property prices only ever goes up!

    When have I heard that before.

    As they say if you can see the bandwagon you're already too late.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭ Leroy42

    I am misreading the article, it is saying that farmland prices are falling.

    Now, of course there is an argument that the EU subsidies were artificially keeping farming profitable, but that was never part of the Brexit argument.

    No doubt if prices continue to fall the Brexiteer argument will be that it was always part of the plan and they were actually always against the price of land increasing and this is about giving land back to the people!

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    It's 2 different articles. It's the newer top one says prices are rising and the lower one a 2 year old prediction of falling prices.

    Confused me at first too

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,178 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    Not sure how reliable a Daily Mail poll is compared to the big polling companies but there are quite a few of these floating around that seem to get ignored by people pushing the idea that labour are still moving the wrong way in polls.

    Also I do love polls that can't trust us to do our own subtraction

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,155 ✭✭✭✭ 28064212

    It's still down nearly £2,000/hectare from it's price immediately before the Brexit referendum. Coincidentally (or maybe not), this rise in prices is occurring in the immediate aftermath of a sustained period of historically low supply due to Covid restrictions - 2020 had the lowest number of acres put up for sale on record, and 2021 only had a small increase on that. When the pent-up demand is satisfied over the next 2 quarters or so, a much more accurate picture will be available. I can't say I'd be betting on the current upswing being sustained

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using post-migration Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, and a dark mode setting)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose

    Don't know about Dyson (the vacuum cleaner guy?) but Clarkson appears to have bought his farm on a (very) expensive lark and has been doing a show about his misadventures as a farmer. The farmer that works with him, Caleb, regularly laments the plight of farmers in that to get a decent sized farm would cost millions. Worldwide I think the wealthy are rumored to be buying farmland.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    Dyson (the vacuum cleaner guy) is one of the largest (non-aristocratic) landowners in the UK. Clarkson has not a clue about most things - and farming is one of them. CAP provided a large income to large farmers because, despite its name, in the UK, had no cap on subsidies for large holdings. A farm could break even and the CAP payment was the profit. The loss of CAP payments will have a large impact on farmers. Many farmers in the UK are tenants - not owners.

    The UK has not equalled the CAP payments despite pledging to do so.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭ 20silkcut

    The aristocracy in Britain were one of the big beneficiaries of the CAP. Maybe that’s why the House of Lords was always leaning much more to remain than the House of Commons.

    Many farmers in Britain are much less exposed in that they can just walk away from the farm as they don’t own it . Unlike here in this country. May explain why they were so careless about voting for brexit.

  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Melany Tender Earache

    The number of hereditary lords is limited to about 90/800 ish, it's mostly packed full of loyal party members.

    British farmers do have a lot to lose.

    They still have to pay rent whether or not and if they walk away after losses they have nothing to show for it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭ 20silkcut

    Generally speaking still less to lose than Irish farmers. From the British farmers I follow on you tube it can be startling to see the disparity in infrastructure investment between British and Irish farms. Probably due to a combination of climatic factors a more relaxed regulatory regime and lack of incentive to invest in a property that is not really yours and a likely long term rental increase for any improvements made.

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 86,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight

    "Farmers accounted for over a third of buyers (39%), compared with the 55% who were either lifestyle purchasers or investors."

    You have to remember sterling is down against the dollar. So land is cheap for long haul foreign investors.

    As for short haul investors, venture capital has taken over Morrisons and ASDA this year between them a quarter of the UK grocery trade. Tesco who control another quarter of the trade are buying back shares but deny it's to protect against being taken over.

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 86,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight

    But the total members of the House of Lords is not limited. The UK "constitution" pretty much allows a PM to create new lords on a whim and bypass the Appointments Commission. Wide open to ballot stuffing by appointing compliant lords.

    Asquith threatened to create hundreds of Liberal peers to get the Parliament Act through the Lords in 1911 so assume it's in Boris' playbook if it's needed. Because Brexit has been a bait and switch using every trick in the book.

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,363 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster

    Trade deal with NZ announced today

    Though I don't see how sending onions from here to the UK is viable or sustainable...

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭ Strazdas

    From memory, NZ is only a tiny trading partner of the UK's : not even in the top 50.

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