How much should a tradesman charge a day?

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 03:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112885#Comment_118112885

What you did was simply reverse snobbery. Making a lot of assumptions on why people don't like being over charged. If somebody struggled to get a well paid job why are they not deserving? You seem to think that people with high paying jobs look down on people doing trades. No chance people with trades size up somebody's property and try to overcharge?

So if you have no problem with charging more when supply is tight then you think rent should be allowed go up surely. There should never be any complaints on government expenditure and expenses claimed. You can of course have 2 different standards but it would also be hypocritical view.

Can you state what you think is a fair days pay for a semi skilled worker?

a fat guy · 03-11-2021 03:43PM

He probably shouldn't bother, because it seems like you you're a tradesman troll and have pulled this trick on AH already before:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211954/accepted-greed-from-certain-groups

Didn't get your "haha I'm annoying people on the internet" kick last time?

shenanigan · 03-11-2021 03:44PM

In order to answer the question of how much a tradesman should be charging we need to look at the starting point of how much they are legally required to pay their staff. In construction there is a Sectoral Employment Order that sets out these rates.

For a Category A Worker (grounds worker) that is currently €19.37/hr we then need to add pension contribution at €27.35/week or €0.70/hr, detah in service €1.14/week or €0.03/hr, sick pay €1.27/week or €0.03/hr plus a percentage addition to cover holidays, PRSI, overhead for clerical work, safety , admin, equipment etc normally around 32% plus add on costs for overheads such as supervision etc. normally 35%. So very quickly the rate just to cover costs becomes circa €36/hr

Add to that cost for small tools and van etc. that puts the rate in the 40's. Then add for profit. Nobody does this for the craic!

The rate quoted at €350/day or €43.79 does not seem far of the mark for somebody running a legitimate company and paying all associated costs.

The reality is that most contractors are paying their staff more than the SEO rate above. If there was huge money in it everyone would be doing it!

The big problem in construction is that paddy who has a wheelbarrow and a shovel and not much else will come and do work for €150 a day for cash as he is paying nothing and drawing the dole, he will take twice the time and do half the job. But paddy now hears that the lads are charging €350 a day and now wants the €350 because he is worth it but still will take twice the time to do half the job. The result is there is no trust in tradesmen. A red flag for me is tradesmen that need you to hire tools for them. At a minimum I would expect a groundworker to have a con saw.

Wibbs · 03-11-2021 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112504#Comment_118112504

There's a lot to that alright. Plus being part and parcel of becoming a wealthier society is more people have more money, but more people are time poor because of it and any time they have off is going to be aimed at family life or simply destressing. A fair percentage are nearly always "on" because of modern communications and the requirement for 24 hour support. We also have more "stuff" in our lives and greater expectations so more things break down or need improving.

I'd add another aspect to it too; mutually assumed expertise as part of the social contract around job specialisation. So office worker whose job most could do with little enough training accepts a tradesman's word on his expertise, just in case his own is ever questioned sorta thing. There is also the snobbery angle to it too. I couldn't possibly know about plumbing types. Many of whom I've found are a generation from people working in various trades and don't like to be reminded of it. Plus some are best working with their brains, some with their hands, intellectual versus practical. I have found those who are comfortable in both are the minority. I know one guy who's seriously bright, a real master at coding and has made a pretty penny by it. I watched him try to replace a video card in one of his PC's and nearly lost the will to live watching his hamfisted attempt. I invoked the putthekettleonadgetthefukoutamyway protocol, otherwise he'd be still at it. He would always get a man in, simply because he wouldn't have a clue where or how to start even wiring a plug.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113053#Comment_118113053

Not the correct definition
Not the correct definition
Still not answered the question. >>>>Do you find it acceptable everywhere to charge as much as you like dependent on supply and demand?<<<<question Taxi driver cannot legally charge as much as they like.

I am perfectly aware the tradesmen have the upper hand at the moment and you assumed wrong about me. If you paid attention you would see I studied civil engineering so know a bit and worked with tradesmen. I have to use tradesmen regularly over a number of properties. It is hard to beleive so many people think it is a fair situation where tradesmen do not pay taxes nor comply with very light legislation.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 03:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113221#Comment_118113221

Different question and I note you can't say what you think is a fair pay

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 03-11-2021 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216243/how-much-should-a-tradesman-charge-a-day

Do it yourself so.

a fat guy · 03-11-2021 03:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113267#Comment_118113267

It literally is what popped up for the first result on duckduckgo.
I didn't give a definition, instead stated that iit doesn't apply.
Try reading my post again. Eventually it'll make sense if you stop trying to take my words literally. Obviously they cannot charge you a million euros, but I've been asked to pay something ridiculous for the rickshaw thing late at night for an anecdote (Do you seriously not see how it looks like trolling when you try to twist words like that? Might need to message a moderator about you if this keeps up)
Did you not get everything you needed from your last thread on tradesmen? Seems like you just want to vent about paying them. Repeatedly.

So you're a landlord too and complaining about gouging? Or are you going to pull a "They're not actually my properties" this time?

03-11-2021 03:58PM

The OP possibly has a very logical brain and wants a logical explanation for everything not seeming to understand the world does not work like that.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 04:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113233#Comment_118113233

That is good information and does give more insight. I have an issue with the "rounding" of all things upwards in the favor of the tradesman. The job is not 4 man days and they are rounding up on top of that. It is not dissimilar to when prices rounded up from sterling in shops was way more than the currency rate or how petrol goes up way more than the prices of oil going up. People complain about that stuff.

I know tradesmen and I know how they operate but people are making it out like they are being fair and reasonable are way off. He is overcharging for materials and padding out labour. It just slows things down for me and I am sure it is affecting others like me trying to set up a business which means costs get passed on

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 04:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113335#Comment_118113335

look up a dictionary
look up a dictionary
Just answer the question directly as put you as I can't take your words literally according to you
No
How do you know I am gouging? I'll answer for you seeing as actually answering a question is difficult, you don't.

The reason I repeatedly tried to get you to answer the same question was to see if you had a hypocritical view. The fact you made a point about gouging and landlords proves you do to me. Simply you think it is great for the tradesmen but don't like it if the same was applied elsewhere. If I have that wrong you can correct me because I literally don't know if you understand words.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113338#Comment_118113338

Yes logical but I think I know how the world works. I fail to see how asking what a fair days pay is conflicts with either logic or the real world. Did you state what was fair? Logically I think tradesmen are ripping people off and the real world seems to understand that while some care others don't care. Am I missing something?

Spook_ie · 03-11-2021 04:40PM

Well what you're missing, is what price would you put on yourself giving up your job and setting up as a contractor of any kind? If you'd do it for less then yes you could feel they are overcharging but if you wouldn't then no they're not.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 04:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113569#Comment_118113569

I am a contractor (IT) and that is not in anyway a a response to how much should they get paid a day? They are overcharging that is not in question as it will not take 4 man days to do the work and there is no way they would spend the time on site. If I could charge two different company a full days pay while only doing one days work I might be tempted but that is part of what they are doing here

Spook_ie · 03-11-2021 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113636#Comment_118113636

Well not really, you have to factor in any likely problems that might delay completion and cost for how you would get around around them, but as many have said if you feel they are over charging then DIY and stop complaining

cj maxx · 03-11-2021 05:54PM

Firstly, I doubt they're a 'contractor ' if they're hiring basic tools like a con saw.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113849#Comment_118113849

Well because I am a contractor I know all the tax details that need to be filled out and about sizing jobs and contingency planning as I project manage. So I may have more knowledge any experience than you are giving credit for in the area of running a business while I am also setting up another business. You were suggesting I didn't understand basic business so can I ask what is your business acumen? I am not really complaining other than wanting to gauge how others felt. Some people made weak arguments in defense which I disagree with. There is no doubt they are over charging on the amount of labour.

I am sure you are happy with rent, insurance,house prices, etc... and have no view on how much it should be.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 05:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113939#Comment_118113939

Never said they were. I just explained how much it would cost to rent to illustrate how much they were charging above what could be possible costs.

Donald Trump · 03-11-2021 05:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112039#Comment_118112039

That is probably for the saw itself and not the blade. The blades are mad expensive.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 06:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113956#Comment_118113956

they really aren't you can spend a lot for long use blades but for a job like this one €45 blade would easily last and probably last several other jobs. THe place I looked at provided the blades with the saw

Donald Trump · 03-11-2021 06:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113967#Comment_118113967

Well I don't know exactly what you are cutting but a cheap blade might be a false economy if you come across steel in the concrete

Spook_ie · 03-11-2021 06:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113946#Comment_118113946

So you are a contractor who goes around digging trenches and know what you charge which would be less than the people you asked OR are you a contractor with absolutely nothing to do with digging trenches and therefore shouldn't be complaining but instead either DIYing or shopping around?

Mad_maxx · 03-11-2021 06:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112504#Comment_118112504

tradesmen are significantly cheaper in the UK so not all down to wealth levels in a country , there has long been a culture of gouging amongst trades here . , they took a break from it for six or seven years post crash but most either fcuked off abroad or drew the dole and did a few cash in hand jobs

doing up a house in the UK costs far less than here

SupplyandDemandZone · 03-11-2021 06:27PM

Sounds about right to me at the minute. Lads who where clever enough to do a trades apprentice gig years ago when nearly everyone was going to med school or wanted to work in IT are raking it in now. Fair play to them as it's hard work.

tom1ie · 03-11-2021 06:31PM

Prices are nuts.

tiler quoted me 5.5k not including VAT to tile 24m2 walls and 6m2.

I have to supply tiles.

he supplies grout and adhesive new electric shower strips out old bathroom and refits.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 06:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114018#Comment_118114018

Never said anything close to that. If you want to make up stuff why don't you just think you won your imaginary argument.

I clearly stated why I would have a fair idea but you have provided nothing as to why you know better. Don't think there is much point engaging with you as you haven't said anything of value other than try to make it out like I have no idea how much work is involved.

Ray Palmer · 03-11-2021 06:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114080#Comment_118114080

Yeah the whole time building sites were closed the tradesmen were raking it in and aren't playing catch up for the time they were out of work. Have you any idea how few med school places are available each year? Don't worry by the time people reach their 50s it won't be the people working in offices dealing with bad back, knees, shoulder etc... Life isn't a sprint it is a marathon. I am sure all these smart lads who went into the trades will properly fund a pension and live long after retirement. Milk it while they can I guess

03-11-2021 07:07PM

Ray, in your OP you said Tradesmen are legally required to give an itemised quote, I asked earlier, what law are you referring to?

And, when you say the Tradesman is overcharging/gouging, what metric are you using to measure this? Is there a set price somewhere for the job you want done, or can a tradesman quote based on what value he/she puts on their work?

It seems you have a chip on your shoulder about tradesmen, when the obvious course of action is to get competing quotes, then go with the one you believe offers best value based on price and standard of workmanship.

Murph85 · 03-11-2021 07:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114099#Comment_118114099

if you can strip it all out yourself and project manage, you can save a lot. The money in bathrooms is off the wall... In terms of bathroom, tiling only wet area can save a fortune...

Jequ0n · 03-11-2021 07:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114300#Comment_118114300

Not sure what you are trying to achieve here. The thread has, as expected, taken the same course as the OP’s last one on the same topic. I wouldn’t expect logical explanations to make an impact on the fixed mindset.

How much should a tradesman charge a day?

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