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Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

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    #602
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    They could make a fairly simple HTML browser app which has all the same functionality and security but gets rid of the fancy graphics and interactive features to save on bandwidth. It wouldn't need much maintainence either since the technology is as old as the internet and widely supported

    You have just identified the cheapest elements of what it takes to build the app and probably less than 10% of the cost.

    Your simple web app is just a view on to a complex back end app that has to be designed, built and tested to withstand the 24x7 hacking attacks it will be subjected to. It is usually placed in some kind of DMZ and that to must be monitored etc.. when it comes down to it, it is no cheaper than any other option.


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    #603
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,008 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You have just identified the cheapest elements of what it takes to build the app and probably less than 10% of the cost.

    Your simple web app is just a view on to a complex back end app that has to be designed, built and tested to withstand the 24x7 hacking attacks it will be subjected to. It is usually placed in some kind of DMZ and that to must be monitored etc.. when it comes down to it, it is no cheaper than any other option.

    I didn't say it was cheaper to develop, I was saying that people shouldn't be required to have access to the latest technology and high speed internet to access essential services online

    There would still be a 'main' app which provides advanced functionality. The low bandwidth version would only allow access to key functions such as balance enquiries, transfers, paying bills and reporting cards stolen or lost

    A low bandwidth version of the banking app would presumably use the same backend as the main version and would provide a high quality service without adding significant cost to the developer

    It's a moot point anyway because Irish banks aren't interested in providing services to customers without access to high speed internet and it would require government regulation to force them to provide it, which the current government won't do

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #604
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    I didn't say it was cheaper to develop, I was saying that people shouldn't be required to have access to the latest technology and high speed internet to access essential services online

    There would still be a 'main' app which provides advanced functionality. The low bandwidth version would only allow access to key functions such as balance enquiries, transfers, paying bills and reporting cards stolen or lost

    A low bandwidth version of the banking app would presumably use the same backend as the main version and would provide a high quality service without adding significant cost to the developer

    It's a moot point anyway because Irish banks aren't interested in providing services to customers without access to high speed internet and it would require government regulation to force them to provide it, which the current government won't do

    Android 8 is years old and high bandwidth is not required.

    I have poor coverage at home. About 2mb inside. No problems with any banking app. Ulster, revolut or AIB.


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    #605
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    It's a moot point anyway because Irish banks aren't interested in providing services to customers without access to high speed internet and it would require government regulation to force them to provide it, which the current government won't do

    I don't think there's any need for the government to force businesses to serve customers they don't want to. There's already a provision for basic banking services.


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    #606
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    It's a moot point anyway because Irish banks aren't interested in providing services to customers without access to high speed internet and it would require government regulation to force them to provide it, which the current government won't do

    The Dail is limited by the constitution so it is not even a possibility. The EU Directive on payment accounts is as far as it can go.


    Now I think we’re once again in danger of going too far of the topic. If you wish, open a thread on the Directive on payment accounts and related issues.


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    #607
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    the_amazing_raisin wrote: »
    I didn't say it was cheaper to develop, I was saying that people shouldn't be required to have access to the latest technology and high speed internet to access essential services online

    The priority here is security, end of.
    Allowing people to use outdated OS's and software that runs on that OS is very simple a security risk to the bank (by making a system that still works on out dated and flawed software) and to the customer by enabling them to do this.

    Your argument is utter nonsense, its like somebody arguing that they should be allowed use Netscape or IE5 on a Windows XP machine and nobody should be forced to upgrade to access services.

    Sometimes people have to be saved from themselves, most people left to their own devices simple would not apply security updates and patches even if they were available. They simple lack the knowledge or can't be arsed. So if the customer isn't going to keep security in mind then the bank has to force better security on the customer.

    End of the day if the customer lost 1000's they'd be first to blame the bank and you'd likely join them in blaming the banks just like you have here now.
    There would still be a 'main' app which provides advanced functionality. The low bandwidth version would only allow access to key functions such as balance enquiries, transfers, paying bills and reporting cards stolen or lost

    A low bandwidth version of the banking app would presumably use the same backend as the main version and would provide a high quality service without adding significant cost to the developer

    OK, lets look at an example, I've been using the KBC app daily since start of May, it has used less then 4mb total of downloaded data as reported by android os on my phone.

    How much more low bandwidth do you want exactly?
    It's a moot point anyway because Irish banks aren't interested in providing services to customers without access to high speed internet and it would require government regulation to force them to provide it, which the current government won't do

    Over the course of a month I could easily manage to download 4MB of data even on my old 56k dialup modem.

    Your effort would be better spent lobbying to actually improve the broadband to people that don't have good access, not trying to convenience company's to provide less secure and inferior services to people, whats next...you want Netflix to provide realplayer 1990's quality streaming video to people so Netflix can run on dialup?
    :rolleyes:


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    #608
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natwest-transfer-ulster-bank-loans-permanent-tsb-c0qmv6xk0

    Sunday Times reports:

    • NatWest to take 10-20% stake in PTSB.
    • PTSB to acquire 9 billion of non-tracker loans from Ulster Bank.
    • Current accounts won't transfer. Current accounts are likely to be wound down over a year.
    • 20 of Ulster Banks Ireland branches might transfer to PTSB. That is 20/88 so the majority will close.




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    #609
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    [quote]Current accounts are likely to be wound down over a year.[/quote]

    Is that over the next year starting from now, or over a year starting in the future?

    Thanks JTMan for all your updates in this thread, much appreciated.



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    #610
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117636324#Comment_117636324

    It will be from whenever they make the announcement and the exact time frame is still not known. Its probably an educated guess from the journalist.

    My own guess is end Aug / Sept 2022.

    Nothing to get concerned about for a good while yet



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    #611
    bennyx_o
    Registered Users Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭bennyx_o


    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0723/1236761-ulster-bank-permament-tsb-deal/


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/natwest-to-take-up-to-20-stake-in-ptsb-under-7-6bn-loan-sale-1.4628482



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    #612
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Irish Times article is here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ptsb-plans-to-take-over-7-6bn-of-ulster-bank-loans-and-25-branches-1.4628482

    Looks like:

    • Current accounts won't auto-transfer but PTSB will give you a form to complete if you want to switch.
    • Non-tracker mortgages to PTSB.
    • Tracker mortgages to AIB.
    • 65 branch closures including 63 Ulster Bank branch closures and 2 PTSB branch closures.
    • Branch closures to start in H2 2022.

    This is a slow transition!



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    #613
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,008 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652170#Comment_117652170

    I'm fine with slow, in no hurry to move

    I'm glad the loan book is being taken on by PTSB, I'm no great fan of them but I'd prefer an Irish based bank to some random inventment fund or international bank who have no support center in Ireland to speak of

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #614
    Paul_Mc1988
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Paul_Mc1988


    Will we still be able to overpay the 10% on the fixed rate is what I'd like to know?



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    #615
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,008 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117653610#Comment_117653610

    So legally they can't change any of the terms and conditions that you signed up to. This should include the conditions on overpayments so it should be safe until the end of your fixed rate


    However, if you sign up to another fixed rate at the end it'll be under PTSBs terms and conditions

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #616
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    PTSB planning to take over 7.6bn of loans from Ulster Bank along with 25 branches and 400/500 staff.

    A Cork and Galway PTSB branch will close and relocate to a nearby Ulster Bank site.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ptsb-s-shares-soar-as-it-prepares-to-take-over-7-6bn-of-ulster-bank-loans-1.4628482?mode=amp


    And an article for UB customers who transfer to PTSB (presumably on a variable rate,) could pay more with the new lender....shock horror the advice is for people to shop around.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/claim-that-ulster-bank-customers-could-pay-30-000-more-to-ptsb-1.4628864?mode=amp



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    #617
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 596 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What about Ulster Bank Credit Cards? Should I be prepared to pay it off on demand?



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    #618
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117665271#Comment_117665271

    Its all business as usual at the moment, nothing like that has been announced. I'd say they will sell the credit card business to another provider.

    Full page ads in todays papers saying UB are still doing mortgage business for new customers until the end of October including drawdowns, but anyone doing new business with them should be aware the mortgage will transfer to a new lender later.

    More details...

    https://www.ulsterbank.ie/help-and-support/important-customer-notice.html



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    #619
    jj880
    Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭jj880


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117652170#Comment_117652170

    Am I correct in saying that PTSB have a current account with no charges (unless you need to go in branch for something not automated) as long you keep 2500 balance at all times?

    I was a bit confused by the layout of their account charges on their web site.



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    #620
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686847#Comment_117686847


    Nope, PTSB do not offer a product like that.

    PTSB Explore current account costs 6 EUR per month but you can get cashback via debit card usage (10c per usage up to 5 EUR per month) and cashback with Sky and SSE. Hence, if you use your debit card at least 50 times per month, the most this is going to cost you is 1 EUR per month for maintenance fees and transaction fees but excluding FX fees and overdraft fees.



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    #621
    jj880
    Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭jj880


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687147#Comment_117687147

    Ok I see that account now - seems I was looking at the Basic Payment Account but that is only available in special circumstances. E.G. to refugees entering the country.



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    #622
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,008 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687256#Comment_117687256

    If you look on bonkers.ie they have a comparison of current accounts 

    https://www.bonkers.ie/compare-current-accounts/your-results/


    The only one that's free to my knowledge is the EBS Money manager account

    It's very basic, but it has a debit card and covers most of the basics anyone would need. You could pair it with a more digital friendly bank like Revolut to cover all your needs

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #623
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/natwest-exit-to-take-another-two-years-s7j8vlgcb
    • The NatWest boss also said that she hoped to reach terms with Permanent TSB by the end of the year on a deal to sell €7 billion worth of non-tracker mortgages and €600 million of SME loans and asset finance business.
    • Rose said the transfer of the mortgage loans would complete “maybe 12 to 18 months after that”, signalling a cut-off date in mid-2023.
    • Rose was more coy about the sale of the remaining 40 per cent of Ulster Bank’s assets, which includes €6.5 billion of tracker mortgages. The Irish Times has reported that AIB has held talks about acquiring the book.

    This is going very slowly. It could be mid 2023 before non-tracker mortgages move to PTSB.



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    #624
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Ulster Bank to start telling customers to get ready to close accounts...

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ulster-bank-tells-customers-to-get-ready-to-close-accounts-1.4713856



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    #625
    FFVII
    Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭FFVII


    When you move. Your old transaction history hardly comes aswell does it?



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    #626
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088830#Comment_118088830

    Assuming you are talking about standard bank accounts, you are not moving anything, you are closing down accounts and opening new ones. So make sure you have copies of whatever history you need to keep, before you close your account.



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    #627
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭JTMan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088447#Comment_118088447


    The situation seems to have changed from one where deposit accounts would auto-transfer to PTSB and current accounts would need to be manually transfers ... to the new situation where no deposit nor current account customers will auto-transfer to PTSB. All deposit and current account customers will need to find a new home.

    Sounds like the timeline is notifications will be sent early next year (maybe January) and customers will have 6 months to move their accounts (until Maybe July/August). BoI, AIB, PTSB, N26, EBS and Revolut will have a lot of new applications to deal with next year.

    No mention of when the mortgage transfer will occur. I guess this is still targeted for aprox. early 2023.



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    #628
    Paul_Mc1988
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Paul_Mc1988


    I can only overpay my fixed term mortgage with ulster bank from an ulster bank current/deposit account. Its a pain in the ass as I'm BOI and I have to transfer to the girlfriends ulster bank account to do it.


    If they make her close the account and we lose the overpayment facility that's essentially a change in my mortgage terms and I'll be looking to break my fixed rate free of charge to go to avant.



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    #629
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090344#Comment_118090344

    It entirely depends on the terms set out in the contract you signed. It would be advisable to get you contact out and go over it.



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    #630
    imokyrok
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭imokyrok


    Really sorry to see Ulster Bank closing. Their Android app works so well. I'm going to need to transfer two current accounts as I use one for all direct debits and the other for day to day spending. Also a savings account and loan account. Anyone know which of the available banks has a good android app that makes it as easy to transfer funds between accounts as the Ulster Bank one?



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    #631
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090344#Comment_118090344

    I overpay my mortgage from a BOI account with no issue.

    In my case I just transfer to an account with a specific reference, the account as far as I know is a generic one that all overpayments go into, and then the reference is specific to my mortgage.

    Are you sure you can't do it, would be strange to vary by mortgage.



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