Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

Slydice · 27-10-2021 8:19pm

Awe yeah! One hour of Sardaukar!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zBR0dPK-UY

Sad Professor · 27-10-2021 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081995#Comment_118081995

Villeneuve pitched Dune and Messiah to the studio as a trilogy. Whether he gets to make Messiah I dunno but I'd argue it's an essential epilogue to the first book and not merely a bridge to CoD as the mini-series treated it. It would need a bit of work but I think it could make a good film.

I wouldn't dismiss the gamble involved in splitting the film, though do think the fallout over the HBO Max deal resulted in assurances being made about part 2. The actors may not have been privy to this.

breezy1985 · 27-10-2021 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082305#Comment_118082305

I loved Messiah so I hope it gets made but I could see this series after Dune 2 going the same way as the original Planet of the Apes with each movie being made on a smaller budget and smaller scale

banie01 · 27-10-2021 9:08pm

Jaysus @Wibbs spoilers man! Spoilers!!!😂😂😂

Tar.Aldarion · 27-10-2021 10:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081859#Comment_118081859

I meant more from the perspective that it seems that there is no real force for Paul to go back to, which makes it seem like the houses are not that powerful when 150k troops can wipe somebody out and a battalion or 2 makes a huge difference. We are talking about an empire with hundreds of billions of people, if not trillions, tens of thousands of planets. Hell the most powerful houses have...two planets. The scale always seemed weird. It's like the equivalent of 20 good men in game of thrones.

The guild are more interested in money, it wasn't really a siding like that - did they even know about the emperors part in it? The troops are disguised in the book and they are likely just paid for a transport from one place to another for a fight, they'd have to come from the prison planet but the Harkonnens could have visited first, I can't recall what is mentioned. In any case they also can't seem to (and don't want to) just abandon the house like that I imagine as this has to be seen as a petty house feud. Interesting to think about them, and what they knew/didn't and what they would do.

breezy1985 · 27-10-2021 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082882#Comment_118082882

Definitely the scale wasn't thought through in terms of troop numbers. Unless why Leto was so excited about the Fremen was down to the fact that the billions are passive and useless as soldiers which was never mentioned or pointed to in the books.

Tar.Aldarion · 27-10-2021 10:50pm

I just looked it up and there are mentions of a million worlds being an underestimate and mega-trillions of people, the scale is hilariously big. There may have been some caste system or some influence by bene gesserit to keep troop numbers down but really it doesn't make sense yeah. Anyway, it doesn't really matter for the story, the numbers don't take away from it.

notahappycamper · 28-10-2021 6:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079943#Comment_118079943

Yeah, US iTunes account to actually pay for it and to get the app, topped up with US iTunes gift card. ExpressVPN DNS used as the VPN.

Wibbs · 28-10-2021 9:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082362#Comment_118082362

1) I've no idea how to do spoilers on this new platform and 2) spolling Dune for nerds on an internet forum would be like spoiling the New Testament for Christians. 😁

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082957#Comment_118082957

It's a work of fiction and fantasy at that so plot holes of that nature are going to be a given. Though even in the cold hard reality of history when we come to write it we nearly always focus on a couple of players and omit the mass of complex humanity behind and around them and that focus entirely depends on existing biases in the tellers, so in a way Herbert's tall tale is not that innacurate. If we think of Rome and Ceasar's power machinations, rise and empire building, we can name a handful of players and events and tend to forget that an absolutely tiny percentage of the population were directly involved in or even affected by that. Put it another way a Roman legion numbered around five thousand men, while the population of the empire was around fifty million.

28-10-2021 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077354#Comment_118077354

I very much doubt Keoghan is in the running for that. Nothing about his past roles suggests charismatic pretty boy to me (Though if he was he should know better than to fuel rumours on Twitter.)

I can’t recall if the Baron-Feyd relationship in the book had the same homoerotic erm undertones it does in the Lynch film, but if so there is no way they are doing anything as ick as casting Skarsgaards actual son.

banie01 · 28-10-2021 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083698#Comment_118083698

Never have i been so offended by such an accurate description of myself 🤣

I'm off to dig out my copy of the Orange Caholic Bible and read it in the hope that I find a passage that salves my rage at thy audacious veracity!

Dohnjoe · 28-10-2021 10:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082957#Comment_118082957

It's a book written by someone who probably didn't think of this. Tons of stuff in sci-fi is silly if we really analyse it, likewise comic books. Some made-up universes are more "believable" than others, that's about the only bar we have.

timmyntc · 28-10-2021 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084223#Comment_118084223

The book does include quite large scale populations though,

like the Fremen are supposed to number around 5 million. And I think Fremen aside, theres a further 5 million or so living in Towns and Villages on Arrakis. And then you have to think about the fact that the Spacing Guild control all space travel, and a point is made repeatedly about how expensive troop transports are. Large scale armies are beyond the reach of most great houses because ultimately its a question of money.

There could be quadrillions in the universe, but if they cant pay the spacing guild to move the people, theres no way they can muster a fighting force even in the millions

breezy1985 · 28-10-2021 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084134#Comment_118084134

The Barron was a paedophile in the books and was possibly messing round with his nephew or at least definitely wanted to

banie01 · 28-10-2021 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084364#Comment_118084364

True, the Baron's proclivities in the book make John Wayne Gacy look like a safe date. That particular portrayal of him in Lynch's flick was very close to the book even if the lad with the flower was perhaps a little old.

He also has a very deep sexual attraction to Paul which gives a very creepy as the story develops IMO.

Johnny Storm · 28-10-2021 2:31pm

10 out of 10 for me.

Tar.Aldarion · 28-10-2021 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083698#Comment_118083698

Ah should probably spoiler that, if I hadn't read the books I'd be pissed, especially as a lot of the threads on this film are talking about that event being a big deal for them. It's fun to think about the numbers all right, taking your roman example, if a legion in the dune universe was the same scale as that each one would have 100000000000000 people in it :p

Wibbs · 28-10-2021 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085820#Comment_118085820

True, though if according to the books* and the current flic space travel is unimaginably expensive troop levels would be small and only taken from a couple of places, just enough to do the job and given the job itself was taking out another bunch of troops that had also come by the same crazy expensive route they'd be small in number too. Plus going back to the Rome example only a small minority of men were trained soldiers so that reduces numbers further.

A hpyothetical example might be Rome and China are two huge empires at other ends of the world. China sends a force by sea to Sri Lanka to control the silk and spice sea trade. Rome gets pissed off at this so they send their own troops by sea to remove them. Huge cost for both and the numbers of ships and troops they could muster would be pretty small. So it's kinda realistic in a lot of ways. If Herbert had upped the scale it wouldn't have worked really. Plus like I said and certainly before modern mechanised warfare most wars were fought by a tiny number of men in localised skirmishes. History for your average person was mostly something that happened "over there" and at some remove and took a while to affect their lives if it ended up affecting them at all. Different heads on the coins they had few of kinda thing.

*tbh I barely got through the first one as a kid and gave up on the second after a couple of chapters.

banie01 · 28-10-2021 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085907#Comment_118085907

The expense of interstellar travel and the load factor/expense of troops and warfighting is partly the reason for the Duniverse's adoption of the "Great Convention" ritualised warfare, vendetta and the popularity of assassin's and in particular the assassins handbook.

Interplanetary warfare, in the same system could be carried out without the Guild but, generally Noble houses controlled their entire system (or multiples) so actual war required the Guild, Money and Interstellar travel.

Warfare was regimented and limited to ensure that only the ruling families were in-play. Large scale warfare had died out and it was primarily a world of raids and chevauchée rather than prolonged off world campaigning.

The "Dune Encyclopedia" goes into it in some detail and although it isn't canon, it does have a foreword by Frank Herbert and really is a great albeit sometimes flawed companion to the appendices in Dune and as a insight into the pre-Brian Herbert flavour that was in play.

There were a couple of shots of lasers and cutterray's in use in the movie... That would certainly have had the potential at least for a Holtzman-laser explosion. If memory serves, Duncan actually laid a trap with a shield that caused such an explosion in the book that was originally mistaken for a nuke.

Tar.Aldarion · 28-10-2021 3:41pm

It's best not to scratch too deep. The travel price makes no sense in general, there are a million planets that they had to travel to and colonise, 10^18 people, there are wars where 100 billion people died, and people import and export to each other quite a lot, there are farming planets like caladan. You can't have any political influence if you can't even travel. As the simpsons said, a wizard did it. :P And I think we can forgive a book written in 1965 that was so accurate about AI eventually existing and such.

Dades · 28-10-2021 4:08pm

Wibbs, I second the spoilering of your readers digest version of the Dune books!

People on this thread are going to be reading the books now, as well as looking to future movies.

To spoiler: Highlight your text, click on the character icon that appears, then click the " quote marks, and you'll see the spoiler option.

Wibbs · 28-10-2021 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086100#Comment_118086100

Tried that didn't work. I"ve spoilered stuff before but it seems to be haphazard as an option, at least on desktop. Quelle bloody surprise. 🙄 I just deleted the relevent part. Now if anyone quoted me good luck with that.

Let's face it Dades, if there were a straw poll of people reading this thread 99% would be over 30 and the same percentage would have read the books or seen the TV series version.

Slydice · 28-10-2021 7:53pm

Heathens! 10 hours Sardaukar for your penance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a3mahYKvaI

AMKC · 28-10-2021 7:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118086181#Comment_118086181

I am well over 30. I have never read the books or even known that there was a TV Series. Is it any good? When was it out? How many seasons? I have watched the original film do well most of it.

Loved the new film and will go see it again.

Wibbs · 28-10-2021 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087082#Comment_118087082

Here's the wiki on TV series AM. I liked it tbh, but it did suffer from a lack of a big Hollywood budget and some other quirks and it can get blasted by some fans.

Slydice · 28-10-2021 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087082#Comment_118087082

There were two connect tv series. They covered the first 3 books. [Dune] [Dune Messiah] [Children of Dune]

They had issues but did a decent intro to the universe. They were easier to understand the universe and a good lead to read the books than I thought the 1984 film could be.

My guess is these two films (Dune Part One and Dune Part Two) will cover just Dune... with a maybe for both [Dune] and [Dune Messiah]

Filmwise, they could probably keep making films up-to and including the story including Children of Dune. Then there's a book that feels like it would be difficult to get into a film style. Maybe a series (or multiple series) could be made of it with tie-ins to other wider-universe stories to get over the hurdle. Then there's more film-potential material in later books. Also tv series potential books from the extended universe.

pixelburp · 28-10-2021 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087082#Comment_118087082

It was a miniseries by SyFy in 2000 (back when it was just the Sci-Fi Channel); while it stayed fairly faithful to the book, had almost zero budget (as was common back then for sci-fi), but some hilariously awful costumes that kinda sunk the series' credibility IMO. There was also a follow-up adaptation of Children of Dune but TBH can't recall it other than it starred a very young James McAvoy. Think its production values were a little less amateur.

For instance, here's what the Sardukar looked like. Space chefs!

And a few others; if you Google "dune miniseries costumes" you'll see more

Dr. Greenthumb · 28-10-2021 8:23pm

I didn't think they did Leto justice in the movie. The same with Kynes, the two of them were quite bland characters in comparison to the book. The book portrayed Leto as an astute military commander and his preemptive strike against the Harkonnen spice reserves was left out completely.

Kynes played a significant role in the book as well and was a great character even if short lived like Leto. The interplay between the two characters when they first met and Leto's concern for the people over the spice really set the tone for who the Atreides were and their ethics. I was pissed reading the book when those two were killed off so quickly lol

breezy1985 · 28-10-2021 8:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087134#Comment_118087134

It looks like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs meets Sesame Street

Homelander · 28-10-2021 9:48pm

The Dune miniseries is not that bad but yeah the production values are awful, think Westwood Dune 2000 video-game level cut-scenes.

Not unwatchable, but has to be seen in that frame of mind to appreciate everything else going on.

Children of Dune was....better. Let's say, PS2 cut-scene quality, so yeah still hard enough to watch, but the core drama is very decent. Also I suppose by the standards of mid-budget TV at that time (2002) it was pretty decent.

In their respective times, for what they were, they were pretty good, just have aged badly.

Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

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