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Heavyweight Boxing

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    If AJ hits Wilder with the KO perhaps. But AJ has no heart. If it gets into the trenches Wilder wins I think



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    There won’t be any trenches for AJ or Wilder. Either lands clean and it’s lights out.

    but yes, Wilder has more fight/gusto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    On recent evidence I'd say Joshua would s**t himself if he was in the ring with Wilder.

    Deer in the headlights comes to mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    I agree here pal. I once saw it like that but Joshua has fought very timidly since Ruiz. Would he really go in swinging?

    also look how long it took Joshua to get rid of pulev that wouldn’t inspire much confidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    He doesn’t need to go swinging..

    he, like Wilder, just needs to land clean. If Wilder gets hit hard, he will be badly hurt, and AJ won’t let him off the hook

    of course, same applies in reverse.

    both very vulnerable

    and in my view, the two recent Fury losses have taken a lot from Wilder

    folks shouldn’t be surprised if Wilder is half the man on his return.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    He’s landed clean on plenty of lads before and either not put them away or taken time to do it. I think wilder is the more likely to land. Joshuas losses have taken their toll too but wilder has at least shown he won’t give up in there.

    I do agree the fearsome aura is gone forever now and lesser lights can ko him. Seen that with Liston (just checked he got ko’d long after Ali) but yea a bad ko takes its toll



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,555 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    AJ refusal to answer on the game plan says a lot to me,

    I reckon the plan was to start boxing but then lay it on Usyk but once he caught tagged in the 4th i think he didn't have the confidence to stay inside and try to hurt him, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt & say i don't think AJ was afraid of getting knocked out i think he is afraid of tiring out

    There is something about him lately where you just don't get the sense of fire in him, Even his 20 second bad man rant at the end of that interview had no soul to it, it was like it was badly scripted ,

    For example that one 30 second clip that went around pre Fury v Wilder 3 where Fury is asked to give Wilder a massage & he says "i'm going to smash your **** face in you prick, How's that for a message"

    Yes its just words & some will say not needed but you could sense a real fire & stubborn determination from him it summed up the how Fury was in the ring seconds before the first bell staring a hole in Wilder still telling him the same thing & determined to do it, While knowing & accepting he is going to have to get through so dark moments in there to achive it ,

    AJ for me tries the humble wise man sh*t but does it out so much he has started to believe it so he get's stuck in that "zone" , He doesn't enter the ring with that fire or malice , he's not in there for a proper fight so when the fight started to get away from him he couldn't dig deep., He needs to find that switch again

    Post edited by yourdeadwright on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    I don't think AJ has the tank. Watched the 5th round against Vlad again and he started great, dropped him and then gassed badly to the point that he nearly got stopped himself. AJ can only sustain big offence for half a round at a time. Never really seen him keep pressure on anyone for multiple consecutive rounds. Standing far away and jabbing doesnt count.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    The avoidance of that question was wrecking my head too. surely he could have talked about the gameplan and what didn’t work well for him. He kept going cryptic about reasons that aren’t excuses… but really are. He lost that fight on the night more than anything else. How many times did he talk about the sweet science and painfully elaborate to hit and not get hit as though this is some kind of new way. Then he was oldschool looking for a war.

    I agree with you there. Fury had a short message every time rather than this vague nonsense. He is still refering to himself as champ too… He looks like he wants to swim but not get wet so often and that interview was a wreck.

    The round 5 was a strange one. Was it all gas tank? Wlad threw 3 mean left hooks, missing with the third but coming in then with a big right. Then joshua walked right into another left hook. Those would stop anyone in their tracks. If he fought with Wlad like he fought with Usyk then Wlad wouldve easily knocked him out imo or walked to a points victory if he chose that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Hes a strange fighter because he has had a few late stoppages after looking knackered in the previous couple of rounds. Hes so big I guess he has to manage the tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    What is referring to about the Ruiz fight,

    For a long time there is talk about something happened pre fight, he said in that interview i won't make excuses but after the fight i learned of certain things that happened before that fight that are reasons i lost, He then says look at me during in the entrance I'm not myself,

    Is he getting at something wrong with his water or food or what ?

    He keeps saying i won't make excuses but he is he is just not explaining them, In my view that's worse than Wilder ,

    Also when talking about changing his style to prolong his career he mentioned getting beat downs that we don't see in the gym, Maybe the rumours has suffered several ko's in the gym are true & why he has become far more timid



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Rumours he got sparked sparring before the fight wasn't there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    That was a rumour think it was American heavy weight Joey Dawejko



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭reclose


    I really enjoyed that fight at the time. I was up for Wlad and my friends were up for AJ. Some serious excitement in those two rounds.

    At the time and I suppose I still am now , I was impressed AJ got back into the fight and won it.

    I was thinking Wlad was done in the 5th then heard and seen the left hook Froch mentioned later that round and was buzzing again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    AJs performance in Wlad fight should be commended. Yes, he tired. He was 250 lbs in there giving it his all.

    But the main thing is that he regrouped, got the second wind and closed the show in style, against a still dangerous Wlad, even if he was past his best. AJ showed a lot of heart, fitness, fortitude and finishing prowess.

    It was quite an intense cardio sapping fight....they are huge men as well, and throwing such heavy leather.

    Not the first big HW to tire badly and then get a second wind.....

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,130 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Didn't watch the interview and won't as I hate them long format ones.

    However on the gameplan point my own theory is that Joshua simply doesn't want to admit that he was badly advised and further to that he doesn't have the wherewithal to rectify or even recognise if things aren't working as planned himself.

    So basically he doesn't want to hang McCracken out to dry and also doesn't want to admit that he himself hasn't a clue how to best fight his fights and furthermore can't recognise if he's losing.

    He bought wholesale into the box and move, a good jab can take you round the world nonsense. And it's been laid bare before him that tis only a pipe dream against decent opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Yep. He worked an opening and he went for it and then was a little naive and a wily veteran pulled him into deep water

    when the going got tough he gassed and wasn’t fit to swing a thump but he clung on in there and went again

    impressive finish in the end. The pity is that style made him and gained him a fan base which is greatly diminishing by now with the manner of defeat and victory. No one but Tony bullshit bellww liked the way he won the Ruiz match



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I used to giggle when himself & his teams they mention how he went off change things up & was bale to beat Ruiz thinking they knew the joke

    But Hearn & AJ is still using that as an example as to how he can beat Usyk so they must actually believe that crook of sh*t, As someone said above it shows AJ doesn't really have clue & just listens to what his team says, Sure he said in his interview he doesn't really understand scoring ??? WTF ..this is someone who won an Olympic gold medal , He either taken way to many shots already or on some strong stuff,

    The reason he beat Ruiz in the rematch is because Ruiz made an absolute pig of himself remember this is a man who was in very poor shape to begin with , he was a utter mess coming into the fight, So much so as soon as the fight was over his trainer left him ,

    For Aj ,his team & his promoter to believe there clever changes are the reason he won that fight are delusional, AJ also looked scared as hell over the full 12 rounds ,

    For the life of me i never understand why a reporter doesn't even mention to them the absolute hack of Ruiz for that rematch ,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just on Ruiz.....I see Usyk said he wouldn't be "doing a Ruiz" for the rematch....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    For long and long I’ve thought that reporters, commentators etc are all in on the aj brand and ask questions to suit. That fool talked to him for an hour like he beat Usyk. The arrogant ass himself talked like some kind of prophet who is too intelligent for this world and this is after getting his ass handed to him. It still irks me how feebly he allowed the titles to go away from him and how much his corner just accepted it all. Anyway back to the point, that interview was prepared, scripted etc and it was still horrendously confused, vague, poorly constructed soundbite drivel.

    This problem I have now is that if Usyk beats him again and he doesn’t give it a go again then will interviewers actually take him on rather than this suck ass embarrassment? I guess not. When Fury gives an interview he engages with the thing and if he was dung in a fight he’d say that and call it how he sees it himself. He is honest and insightful and entertaining. He can talk crap too often enough I will say but in terms of analysing fights he is very good. Joshua always looks like hes on the verge of hitting the interviewer at some point



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    Klitchko deserves be highly praised for his effort in the Joshua fight, he was coming off a loss where he was terrible and remember fighting Joshua he was 41. I know he lives clean but 41 is a pensioner in top level sport.

    I remember when Wlad was king in his prime and we all moaned how poor the heavyweight division was, Wlad taking Joshua to his limit shows that maybe this era is no better, if not worse?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭reclose


    Wlad missed a lot of shots when he had AJ hurt, I think his accuracy had been in decline for a few fights leading up to it. If a few of them had connected I wonder how different the landscape would look now.


    I watched Wlad vs Fury today and Fury really did a great job in that fight in terms of movement and feints.

    Wlad just followed him around the ring and wouldn’t commit to throwing shots.

    It must be really tough for Wlad to not get the rematch to try put things right.

    I’m not sure that version of Wlad could win the rematch other than go out on his shield and throw caution to the wind.

    I wonder would Wlad lasted any longer or win his last two fights with Steward in the corner or someone other than banks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Babic v Eric Molina later on DAZN



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Well how’s it go? I’d say Babic round 3. Molina has turned into a bit of a diver



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,967 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,018 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    He is dirt. Not worth paying his flight over. Was it Wardley he fought lately and didn’t show up then either



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    Cannot stand listening to AJ being interviewed. He just comes across as so phoney. I get it, he runs his own shop, its him who likes spouting this pseudo intellectual nonsense. As another poster said, you would swear he invented the concept "hit but don't get hit, sweet science", etc... whilst also sh*ting on about wanting a war. Its like giving a basic lesson in jargon and lingo to casual fans, which in fairness are his main audience. He has this siege mentality thing, the world is out to get him, "Haters" and the like.

    He is a guy who took up the sport late, was gifted a gold medal at the London olympics and has since been fast tracked to stardom and to be fair (for a lad with a decent medal haul as an amateur without its being a long amateur career) has done exceptionally well given his real lack of experience. So credit where credit is due. I don't know whether he is still green or whether he is at peak of his powers and just doesn't have it.

    Looking at that Klitschko fight, how the hell did Wlad not finish it? That uppercut really turned it on its head. The AJ in the first few mins of that 5th round looked really good, but we know he can't sustain that intensity and aggression for long than 90 seconds without taking a breather. That is his critical flaw. He needs to drop the "I can box for 12 rounds and not get hit" nonsense, he isn't lomachenko with a glittering amateur career that he can revert back to. He needs to find a way of keeping an opponent at bay, and using his gas tank at optimal times when an opportunity presents itself. But this style is walking a tightrope for someone like AJ, he will be caught between two stools. Trying to reserve energy by boxing at range (which he will struggle to do against good opponents) whilst looking like he is lacking the aggression.

    But I don't think he has/can develop the ring IQ to fight this way. He is one dimensional, has a game plan that he is unable to deviate from mid fight.

    Interesting in that interview with Kugan (about 18:00 in), he said you need to ask his team what his plan was, he just "acts on the information". He said he had no idea how things were going. Now that just shows all you need to know about his ring IQ.



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