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Heavyweight Boxing

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  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭ PaoloGotti


    Did you just say Fury is not a great boxer?! Do you think Schumacher was not a great driver, and my Ma not a great cook?!



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    He also fought as a heavy weight as Amateur , he is a much bigger heavy weight than Spinks who lets be fair was never a proper heavy weight



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    What Fury's size got to do with anything ? we all know he is a giant,

    My opinion is Spinks was never a proper heavy weight , When he won the belt he weighed the cruiser weigh limit , its why i don't class it as a great win form Mike Tyson,

    Spink was at his heaviest ever v Mike , he tried to bulk up & got to 212lbs & it took his best weapons away form himself,

    Usyk has become a heavy weight for his run at the division , but went about there Heavy weight days differently



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Are you saying Fury's size means nothing when factoring in how he does vs his foes?

    You dismissed Mike beating an undefeated lineal HW champion in Spinks because you claim Spinks was never a HW despite Mike being circa 8 or so lbs heavier.

    But at the same time you use Fury beating Usyk (a CW moving up) as some sort of plus as regards legend status

    I am confused. Mike beats a LHW who moved up and who was the lineal champion and it means 0 to you, but Fury beating a man moving up is seen as cementing a legacy

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    Usyk is a Heavy weight he used to fight a Crusie weight but he now weighs in at 221lbs a true heavy weight & will continue to do so (give or take a lbs or two,)

    Spinks was a LHW who fought heavy weights, he won the heavy weight belt @200lbs the cruiser weight limit , For 1 fight he tried to bulk for the Tyson & was 212lbs . the weight hindered him



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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Spinks had 5 fights at HW. In one he was 200 lbs. the reset he was above. Similar weights to Holyfield for several Holyfield fights.

    But it still reads as you being selective here. Usyk and Spinks both moved up and won HW belts. You give 0 priase for Tyson pulverizing the lineal champion, yet if Fury beats Usyk (with clearer physical advantages than Tyson had on Spinks) it cements his legacy.

    You have previoulsy brought up Tyson's physical advanatges over the LHW moving up Spinks, yet when I brought up Fury's clear physical advanatges over the CW moving up Usyk, you responded asking what has Fury's size got to do with it......

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    Fury is going down as a legend as it is, to come back from what he came back from and do that to the highest %ko artist ever is enough for most people but obviously not some biased posters who are so see through its funny, just praying fury will lose to come in here and and gloat. Fury went to wlads backyard in 2015 and won, yet certain posters say he was past his best but bring up ajs victory over an aeging wlad as evidence of what aj can do, laughable contradictions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Wlad was past his best in 2015 and 2017…nobody said otherwise. As usual you see contradictions that aren’t there. Most likely you see them because you’re fixated on defending against any perceived Fury criticism. Pathetic.

    This has nothing to do with AJ, who, by the way has also not reached legend status in my view. He likely never will. Fury could!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    I have pointed out your contradictions many times, most on here agree. Fury has already reached legendary status and no matter what he does you wont accept it. Ajs has reached legendary status for his dumb interviews, thick as a brick. Ajs best win was against wlad 2 year's after fury beat him, you seem to be forgetting fury wasn't near his best fighting wlad either. its only recently you have slightly changed your opinion of aj because again you have been proven wrong on him like you have been proven wrong on fury many times. Takes a gentleman to admit when they are wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Your fixation on Fury and hostility for AJ is making you come across as manic.

    You keep seeing things that aren’t here..I can’t help you with that. You’ve pointed out no contradictions. Just illogical nonsense that you’re seeing.

    oh, and why is it clear that Fury was not at his best in 2015? Many thought that performance was masterful. So, when was Fury at his best, if it wasn’t 2015 Wlad?

    was it pre Wlad? Or post Wlad? Go look at the tapes. Because only Wilder fight II stands out for me as a candidate for best Fury, and it is not clear cut that this Fury was better than Fury from Wlad



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    Pointed out your contradictions a few weeks ago how you wanted to talk about fantasy match ups but thought it was nonsense to talk about power of fighters between the different era's, you are walking contradiction- in black and white your contradictions and you still cant admit it that maybe you were wrong.Your inability to admit you are wrong makes you come across as childish. Your fixation on criticizing fury makes you look foolish over and over again, don't like aj, no hostility, just don't like his personality. No problem people criticizing fury when its warranted but its people like you who constantly nit pick and when you do praise him you always add a but i. You were wrong on fury many times, get over it admit you were wrong and move on.

    All 3 wilder fights fury was better than 2015 wlad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Oh, that “one” contradiction from weeks back. Bravo. Well done. But not even a contradiction… just your illogical take.

    Fury in Wilder III and I was not a better specimen than 2015. You do realize that apart from punch power (which is close), even a past his best Wlad is better than Wilder..

    Fury and Wlad, for me put on a terrible show in 2015; but both men were better fighters than Wilder, and Fury closer to his best than his post Wlad fights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    How you cant see that is a contradiction amazes me, you are incredible. Must be great living in your little world where you are always right about everything. Fury in the wilder fights was a much better boxer especially with sugarhill for 2/3, again im not surprised you have an alternative take that a 27year old fury being trained by a cautious peter fury was better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Fury Wilder III and I…not better than 2015…

    Fight 2… argument can be made.

    wasn’t Ben Davidson involved in Fury for Wilder 1?

    now, apart from the silly contradiction you’re gloating about (that we don’t agree on), have you any more with substance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    I give Spinks praise he seen an opptunity at the time & took it, but again he was never a true heavy weight ,

    He just knew that his skill set as LHW would beat Holmes & he did that,

    Spinks fought Holmes twice first he was 200lbs second 205lbs , Then fought Tangstad & was 201lbs , Then Conney 208lbs, Then Tyson 212,

    He was never a Heavy Weight he was a LHW fighting at HW , Usyk is a true heavy weight he weigh 222lbs

    Does Fury have an advantage in size yes but he is still flighting another heavy weight,

    Strangely not many would believe you but Mike Tyson is the 4th heaviest Undisputed champion ever,



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Hold on

    Was Mike in 1988 not fighting "another" heavyweight?

    Fury at 270+ figthing Usyk at say 220 is a HW fight, but Mike at 218 vs. Spinks at 212 is what?

    Seems like some excusing and deflection here....makes no sense to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    Excuses for what exactly ?

    I don't believe Spinks was ever a true heavy weight (his weigh in weights confirm it to me),

    I believe Usyk is a true heavy weight ,

    That's my opinion if you have a different one that is fine



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Usyk, just like Holyfield and just like Spinks and some others beefed up to HW, which is above 200 lbs.

    Yes, Spinks beefed up more than Usyk, but he still beefed up to the HW limit where he had 5 HW fights....

    All three men above are similarly sized.....not big HWs......

    I think it's selective to make out Fury beating a far smaller Usyk cements his legacy, and at the same time completely dismissing Tyson's destruction of Spinks.

    Just removing names and tags. Would you consider Fury at 6 feet 9 and 270 lbs beating Usyk at 6 feet 3 and 220 lbs to be superior to Tyson at 5 feet 11 and 220 beating Spinks at 6 feet2/3 and 212 lbs?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    Again they are your opinions, doesnt make them right, i think fury was a much more accomplished fighter in all wilder's fights than wlad fight. Yes davison was, thats why i said sugarhill2/3 wilder fights. Plenty substance, seeing as i have been right about fury all along and you have been the opposite, my words factually have more substance. I said it ages ago, your dislike for fury has clouded your judgement on him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 reclose


    Fury isn’t a legend. He beat an old Wlad and Wilder. He’s number 1 in the division right now but hasn’t done enough yet.

    Fury needs to clean out the division over a period of time to be a legend.

    AJ, Fury and Wilder all need to face each other and other top contenders for us to truly know how the division lies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Exactly my thinking. 13 or so years a pro and what, 32 fights?

    How many championship fights? 4 in total. 3 wins and a draw.

    Oh, and a PED user. Doping conviction

    Legend? Wtf?!

    His time and era he is up there as the best, or thereabouts. Usyk challenging for number 1 spot.

    AJ fight still needs to happen…

    for me, still a bit to do before legend status considered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    it’s your OTT nut sucking that’s clouding here.

    taking any opinion/observation that you perceive negative too seriously.

    still waiting on all these “contradictions” you’ve been spouting about to be shown..



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,477 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    He's not going down as a legend with nobody but a 40 year old Wlad and Wilder as the only names he's fought.

    He will go down as the best of his generation but it'll be considered a poor generation for heavyweight boxing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    No fury has his faults, i would have said nothing to you but years you have been criticizing fury with little praise. We'll leave it at that because we wont agree and no point me arguing with somebody who cant ever admit they are wrong even when its there in black and white. I know you will have to reply to have the last word to make you feel better. My last reply to you. Good day sir.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    No issue admitting to when wrong.

    on Fury: been wrong 4/5 times on predictions.

    other than this there has been no right/wrong. It’s all in your head.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    agreed poor era. Still fancy fury in any era due to his style and size, has shown great chin and recovery powers up there with the best ever. Cunningham was flash knock down so don't need to hear about that. Its all about getting back up and unfit fury to get back up in wilder 1 was unbelievable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Seriously, what is so unbelievable with a huge man like Fury getting up in the first fight vs Wilder?

    Down on the canvas for ten seconds. Plenty boxers have gotten up from heavier/cleaner shots than what Wilder landed there.

    before any Fury nuthuggers jump in, this is not a criticism. Just find it odd people see it as so unreal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭ squinn2912


    I think Fury only goes down as a legend if he wipes up the division so he still needs to beat at the very least Joshua and Usyk probably more than that too. It’s a poor era for HW for sure. We could well end up with the scenario that Fury retires relatively early unbeaten, it might even be argued that he would beat any fighter in any era but he’s still not worthy of legendary status at ‘just’ that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48,015 ✭✭✭✭ walshb


    Just on the generation thing: it’s still up for grabs.

    Fury in pole position now. But what happens if AJ and Usyk beat him, or god forbid, someone like Whyte?

    does he still deserve best of his era/generation tag?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,517 ✭✭✭ iebamm2580


    If usyk beats joshua again, fury goes on to beat usyk, he simply don't need Joshua, it'll only be Eddie Hearn trying to sell Joshua again saying fury needs him when in actuality he doesn't if aj loses again. Fury can only beat what's in front of him and when you have Tyson and Lewis talking about how good fury is, well i will take what they say more serious then what people on an irish forum say.



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