Forget the prices, just hold enough stock to make the schemes!

n1st · 26-10-2021 2:31pm #1

Seems to me that the best solution for small farming is to forget the livestock prices.

Purchase enough cattle and a few sheep to just make the minimum requirement for the schemes.

No stores, no silage, no sheds, no feed, no fertilizer.

For a 50 acre farm, 10 weanlings and 10 weathers, buy in March and sell on October, if you get a profit from the sales then great if not then so what.

Buy 10 weanling Fresians bullocks cheap and sell them to factory cheap.

What's wrong with the above?

kk.man · 26-10-2021 2:50pm

They won't graze 50 acres in the part of the world. Undergrazed ground produces poor livestock.

I see where you are coming from but the schemes the government are proposing will give us less money than we are currently getting.

Danzy · 26-10-2021 2:53pm

Your approach is correct but aim to minimize cost while maximizing output within that aim.

That might mean 40 livestock units on your place. Depends on your farm. The number depends on your land and layout.

Easten · 26-10-2021 4:15pm

With the cost of everything going up, I don't think it's viable to farm in many of the current systems. Unless you are on grade 1 land you are really struggling. Green diesel nearly at the Euro all other costs will increase even more now too. You are not the only one thinking this way. Best advice for farming I got from teagasc when doing the green cert over 20 years ago and that was "get a job off farm"

n1st · 26-10-2021 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075224#Comment_118075224

Sure but you'd still not make a living from 40 units.

Why bother?

n1st · 26-10-2021 4:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075192#Comment_118075192

Would it make more sense to graze 20 acres and leave the rest to nature or grow native trees or something?

Jb1989 · 26-10-2021 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075834#Comment_118075834

If left to nature, under an environmental scheme, with a payment, then yes,

If no payment, then very few, would do that.

Danzy · 26-10-2021 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075834#Comment_118075834

It would probably be easier to have 40 white head heifers on fifty acres than 10 Friesian bullocks.

You wouldn't make a good living off that much but you'd make enough that you wouldn't turn away either , if you were in all the schemes had a reasonable bps.

Land is good for building up a ball of money as well, especially if you have an off farm job. You could have 50k tied up in cattle after a few years and only reduced your tax and still be lightly stocked.

It's really hard to beat in that regard when played right.

I'm not disagreeing with your premis, just that you can do as you say but with higher numbers.

Squeezing every kg of beef one can out of an acre is often a mug's game.

Danzy · 26-10-2021 7:56pm

Are you wondering what to do with the home place.?

I don't mean to pry.

26-10-2021 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214837/forget-the-prices-just-hold-enough-stock-to-make-the-schemes

Something else you could do to add to the bottom line is produce something pedigree - this is where everyone will say there's no money in that.

I'd agree though have enough stock to make use of the place, great to put the feet up for the Winter if you want to.

Make the schemes work for you, not let them work you for the benefit of others.

Some type of a shed is never not handy.

GNWoodd · 26-10-2021 9:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214837/forget-the-prices-just-hold-enough-stock-to-make-the-schemes

Whatever stock you have at say end September need to be factory fit . You don’t want to get caught with TB and be forced to over winter .

Many people already farming this way but with maybe slightly more stock .

26-10-2021 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077138#Comment_118077138

I think stocking for 7 months is 1.8 times the 12 month rate

Birdnuts · 26-10-2021 9:12pm

I agree with the sentiments of the OP - no point killing yourself and the land producing for ever smaller margins. Alot of lads around my place in North Mayo seem to have come to the same conclusion. Helps too that there is more "off farm" work around these days too. Farm shops seem to be a growth industry too and a lad down the road is making good money selling the goose eggs for 3euro a pop!!

Danzy · 26-10-2021 9:23pm

I set a target for myself to make off cattle last year, a number I knew I could readily do.

It took a lot of pressure off. Knowing leeway was built-in. Thankfully this year with cattle factory prices. It was well exceeded.

As Jjameson said in another thread, there is a spot on each farm where pushing for a bit more becomes counter productive.

n1st · 27-10-2021 9:34am

Remembering that it requires; artificial fertilizer, sheds, silage making, weed killer, slurry spreading, machinery, feed, vets, medicines, oversupply of meat.

Who benefits from high stock numbers?

J.O. Farmer · 27-10-2021 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078600#Comment_118078600

There's a stocking rate in between being way understocked and high numbers.

I think what's being advocated is that optimum rate which is different for every farm but will minimise or elimnate a lot of the costs.

Some costs like vets and medication is going to be incurred once you have any animal even a pet dog. To be fair the pet dog could cost you more than the cattle in that regard.

Count Mondego · 27-10-2021 4:15pm

I have been slightly understocked the last few years and it's far worse than being overstocked. An absolute balls if grass gets ahead of you and very difficult to predict growth patterns a few weeks out. I have about 40 acres that you couldn't cut and bale but produces alot of grass. Cutting silage 3 weeks earlier has resulted in a real glut of grass in late july/August and I could be short in June. I need to keep a closer eye on it and take another cut of silage off one or two of the meadows instead. I feel that there has been mental grass growth in the past 2 years.

n1st · 27-10-2021 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080871#Comment_118080871

Did you spread slurry of fertilizer?

Is there something that could be done with the surplus acreage?

Dinzee Conlee · 27-10-2021 4:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058214837/forget-the-prices-just-hold-enough-stock-to-make-the-schemes

Not saying what you’re suggesting is wrong - but if you’re doing this, would leasing the place be an option?

The income is tax free, and you don’t have any hassle, not even for the summer months…

n1st · 27-10-2021 4:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081007#Comment_118081007

Financially this could be better but I'd only be adding to the problems for my own greed.

Dinzee Conlee · 27-10-2021 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081050#Comment_118081050

I don’t really understand your reply, but fair enough…

If you considered and discounted leasing that’s fine, it was just so you know your options…

Count Mondego · 27-10-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080984#Comment_118080984

Outside of silage ground and 1.5 bags of 18-6-12 for the grassland in spring, I'd put out nothing throughout the year. Slurry goes out after silage. I work full time away from the farm, it's probably too big to be doing part time at 120 acres. Without the auld lad I'd probably have to rent half of it.

n1st · 27-10-2021 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081165#Comment_118081165

Why not drop the fertilizer, silage, sheds, feeding and winter stores?

Take the winter off. Reduce the workload. Reduce the costs.

Seriously, this is something I'm doing and I don't understand why others are not, what's driving it?

wrangler · 27-10-2021 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080871#Comment_118080871

And if grass isn't managed it'll go to all scutch...... but then there are those that wouldn't know the difference

Dinzee Conlee · 27-10-2021 6:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081410#Comment_118081410

What’s the cause of scutch coming into grass?

I have a small paddock that I had lambs on last spring with a creep feed for a month or more. It was well bared down. It came on great over the summer, was really pleased with it - I put it down to good dung when the lambs were ad lib on meal…

But I see lately that a pile of scutch had come into it…

n1st · 27-10-2021 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081410#Comment_118081410

Has anyone tried regenerative farming? Moving livestock daily or weekly, eating the grass well before moving to next patch. Might sort the scutch

endainoz · 27-10-2021 6:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081266#Comment_118081266

Have to say OP you have a good argument. I had looked into going into drystock after a tough calving season one time. Can't rightly remember why I didn't go through with it, sucker for punishment I suppose.

Dinzee Conlee · 27-10-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081565#Comment_118081565

Ha ha - yeah, I half tried that kinda mob grazing kinda craic this summer… trampling a lot of grass, etc…

and now I have scutch, at least in that field…

Not sure what else to say 😄

ah - I think you need a few years to truly see any big change in any system…

wrangler · 27-10-2021 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081647#Comment_118081647

Yea, Once we let the grass grow up and lie down, it promotes scutch,

We don't cut silage so we have to graze everything, it deteroirates very quickly if you don't get to it in time,

I can't say what happened to yours, but scutch doesn't thrive in tightlly grazed grass. We let a couple paddocks go too far last year and had to strip graze last november. It's only really coming right now

n1st · 27-10-2021 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081647#Comment_118081647

Teagasc recommends glyphosphate to get rid of scutch 😳

Any farmer worth their salt wouldn't let this stuff near their farm.

Be careful who you get your advice from.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/teagasc-how-to-control-scutch-grass-and-thistles-in-the-long-term/

Danzy · 27-10-2021 7:39pm

I have a limited patch of mob grazing some scutch establishes, find that the overall range of plants is increasing and the scutch seems to get pushed back after a while.

In places I have walked here where they have years of mob grazing experience, it's not a problem.

A work in progress, we'll see how it goes next year.

Scutch loves disturbance.

Forget the prices, just hold enough stock to make the schemes!

Comments

Be careful who you get your advice from.