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The 2021 All Ireland Senior Football Championship

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  • Registered Users Posts: 37,819 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


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    Post edited by PTH2009 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,265 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I would agree with you I would rate Horan highly. He has really gone up in my estimation dragging Mayo from the abyss to get back to two finals in a row. Rochford always strikes me as a PR man he just says what he thinks people want to hear.

    At this stage it is the senior Mayo players who have to shoulder most of the blame in blowing the final in my opinion. Two in particular I would pick out Hennelly and Aidan O'Shea. I suppose there is an argument has to why Horan starts them. But how many times have those lads cost Mayo now??

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭Bleating Lamb


    Conn Kilpatrick on Claire Byrne live talking about his gambling problem,his struggles with it and how he is hopefully out the other side now.


    Very brave of him to come on national television to admit his struggles,anecdotal evidence would say that there is a very real gambling problem among a lot of young GAA players.He was saying that the easy access to betting on his phone without ever having to go near a bookies was a disaster for him and other gamblers.

    No more than Oisin Mc Conville coming out about his difficulties years ago……it at least makes the thing more real for people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,358 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    So is the GAA split down the middle as regards the football, the haves and have nots?

    Sometimes you get opportunity for change and if you don't grasp it, it's gone.................................



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dinosaurs



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    It's far from gone and that split shows there is appetite for change but not for what was a flawed proposal B.

    As Tom Ryan said after today's Congress the positive from today is that we know what the sticking points are. I think there's a core of an idea there and acceptance that there's a momentum and will to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,358 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    But hasn't that appetite for change existed for several years? Reminds me of the referendum to abolish the Seanad, general consensus in the public that this was a good idea, until a few vested interests came out strong near the end and swung the vote their way. Seems to this observer that some counties want to eat their cake and keep it too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    In every other GAA competition we have a senior, intermediate and Junior type structure. We have too many slow learners not willing to put such a structure forward. This B proposal was rubbish. There is too much sacrosanct rubbish. Provincial championships, Ulster championship, all teams mush have a chance to win in any particular year.

    It simple we need a Senior, Intermediate and Junior structure in football, it happen in every other competition and it happens in every club championship as well.

    Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I didn't really see what proposal B is but my idea is, play league, then provincial.

    Provincial winner is seed 1, finalist is seed 2 and semi finalists are seeds 3/4.

    Championship starts. 4 groups of 4 with open draw consisting of seeds 1-4.

    3 games each and then top place team moves to semi and then final. Would mean provincial championship means something still.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was something like that.

    https://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30553/12441025/gaa-special-congress-all-you-need-to-know-about-proposal-b-and-the-football-championship-restructure-vote



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    A load of meaningless games( except for the Ulster championship) followed by a lot more meaningless games to find eight teams to play quarter finals which will probably be meaniless as it will be seeded group winners V group runners up.

    Highlights of the early round, Sligo V Leitrim to see who makes 4th seed in Connaught, Waterford V Tipp and Clare V Limerick to sort out Munster 3rd and 4th seeds. Big thing in Leinster would be to be in the 1/4 not including Kildare, Meath or Dublin.

    All to preserve the Ulster championship

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Thanks.


    Am I right in reading that 6th, 7th and 8th in Div1 wouldn't have an All Ireland series? I don't see them listed here.





  • Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Once people accept that the provincial system is dead everywhere except Ulster, then we can all move on.

    Trying to fit it in somewhere as a meaningful cog in the wheel to a new system will not work.

    More players will continue to leave the county scene, go abroad or just not bother. Why train for a few games.

    This year Wicklow lost to Wexford and nobody there cared. Why ? Winner was drawn to play Dublin.

    Hurling will continue to be the code to watch.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes, top 4 qualify, 5th goes into a playoff.

    I was happy with proposal b, bit it could possibly be improved on. What I'm not happy about is continuing to do nothing!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭ebbsy




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    Small adjustments but radical change not really and remember this change is for the long term and not a trial period as the Super 8s was.

    Cathair O'Kane was one of the few journalists that gave a balanced debate on Proposal B the last few weeks, His view after it failed to get 60% today was to say it was the right result however he reckons achieving 50% of the vote means the debate doesn't go away. Change will happen and needs to happen. Take it away, fix it and bring it back in the very near future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,211 ✭✭✭tanko


    As things stand now are the super 8’s gone for good and back to the four provincial winners playing four back door qualifiers in the quarterfinals?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    Gone and back to the stand alone All-Ireland quarter finals for 2022. The qualifiers will have less teams as Div 3,4 teams will enter the Tailteann Cup once they lose their provincial championships match.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,211 ✭✭✭tanko


    What does a div 3/4 team have to do to stay in the All Ireland competition, do they have to get to their provincial final to do this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    And that in itself is going back to the short lived and much malinged Tommy Murphy Cup, which lasted about three years.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    Yes they have to reach their provincial final.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,740 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I actually went to the Wicklow / Antrim final in Croker of that competition


    As we were lifting the cup the next 2 teams ran out onto the pitch.


    Says it all about the treatment of the lower tiers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Yep, it's a joke.

    I've always been a believer in the crazy idea that you start and finish in the same competition.

    If you get knocked out you don't drop down to some secondary competition, that's only for GO Games blitzes where everyone gets to play the same amount of games.

    If you start in the top level competition you either win it, stay in it for next yearor get relegated.

    If you start in the lower level competition you either win it and get promoted, get promoted or stay in it for next year.

    None of this dropping down teams to a new lesser competition when dumped out of the main one, they have no appetite for it, the Tommy Murphy Cup is the proff of that.

    The system since 2001 to 2017 (with the exclusion of the Tommy Murphy Cup years) was a good system.

    Teams got a second chance in the main competition.

    Lots of lower profile teams got big days, and some big days in CP thanks to that, much more than would have with Proposal A, or B or with the Tailteann Cup.



  • Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭laoisman11


    Self-promotion on my part, but this proposal aligns with the belief stated above AND keeps the link between the provincials and the All-Ireland championship :-)

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068513/#Comment_118068513



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    I agree with you 100% B was rubbish it's time to scrap Provincial competitions entirely I'd agree mostly with your point on Senior Intermediate and Junior just was wondering how you would classify who goes where and would it be based on the league i.e Division 1 Senior Div 4 Junior and rest intermediate or how would you do it? Or would it be 12 , 12 and 8?

    For what little it's worth I would have A and B 16 teams in each based on the league four groups of eight open draw top four in each goes to QF's bottom in each of A groups plays off loser relegated and winner of B comes up in place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Scoundrel


    Some good news at least the super 8's were nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I have posted a proposal earlier of three tiers of 12 teams. In each tier 2 groups of six with every team playing each other in the group. The to group winners go to SF, the 2nd&3rd pay a QF. The bottom two or four play off in a relegation. You could have two up two down for 2-3 years to sorry out an imbalances early on but after that one up one down.

    First day qualifications, 4 AI semi-finalists and all existing D1 plus promoted D2 teams would qualify for Senior football if there was any anomalies ( Cavan&Tipp situation) No8 D1 and No2 D2 would play off or be eliminated.

    Intermediate N03 of D2 to No 6 of D3. Junior would be the remaining team with pressure put on Kilkenny to provide a team, if not would NY be feasible, teams from the UK would be. The other options would be stronger Counties such as Kerry or Dublin to provide second teams. After setup promotion/ relegation is with the senior intermediate and Junior structure

    Existing Alliance league would remain as is. In the longterm you could have a senior team in D3 or.intermediate or Junior team winning AL div2 and going into D1

    All championship teams to have 2 home, two away and a CP game no matter what level. QF, SF of senior played outside Dublin's. Intermediate and Junior SF's to be played in CP. An AI finals weekend with Junior and Intermediate played outside Dublin on Saturday (there are.okentynif stasis with 20kplus capacity) afternoon and evening with Senior Final played in CP on Sunday if finals weekend.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    To me the obvious structure is two routes to the knockout.

    Play provincial championship - winners qualify for knockout.

    8 team Div 1a and b. Top 4 in each group qualify for quarter final. Position decides seedings a1 v b4 etc.

    If a team wins province and finished outside top 4 they play preliminary round v lowest ranked qualifier in preliminary round

    Same if Division 2 team wins provincial.

    Top 4 Div 2a and b teams play Tailteann cup. Finalists to be promoted in place of losers of relegation playoffs from 1a and b.

    Everyone starts out the year with chance of Sam, province still gives a route to all ireland and teams get meaningful games at a similar standard in the summer.

    This year for Example it could have played out - Leinster Dublin, Munster Kerry, Ulster Tyrone, Connacht Mayo

    North could have been: Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh, Monaghan, Mayo, Meath, Down and Westmeath, South: Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Rscommon, Kildare, Clare, Cork and Laois.

    Assuming top 4 in each group were from division 1, you would have a preliminary QF between Mayo as Connacht champions and Roscommon for example as lowest ranked qualifier, with provincial winners getting home draw. All other provincial winners qualified from league.

    Quarter finals:

    Donegal v Mayo / Roscommon

    Kerry v Monaghan

    Tyrone v Galway

    Dublin v Armagh

    Relegation Playoffs:

    Down v Laois

    Cork v Westmeath

    Tailteann Cup QF:

    Derry v Wicklow

    Offaly v Longford

    Fermanagh v Tipperary

    Limerick v Cavan

    In this system teams still get rewarded for provincial win in that it gives them a guaranteed place in knockouts. Provincial champions would still need to complete in the league to achieve seeding and to avoid relegation. The one wrinkle would be a team being in both the Preliminary QF as provincial champions and relegation playoff - eg. had Cork won Munster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It's a load of rubbish you are using different competitions to bring teams into championship. The weaker seeds will be cannon fodder in groups with no chance of winning and there league position will decide there qualifications next year. If you win the Micky mouse cup or your provincial championship your reward is a low seeding in a three match competition with probably one team you have a chance of beating and no chance to improve.

    Next Thursday night in Mick Neville park in Limerick the County Intermediate final is to take place. It is interesting no matter what the result. On one side is Rathkeale a football club with huge tradition. Relegated from Senior about 4 years ago. The team they are playing is the interesting one. Kildimo/ Pallaskenry. The are a dual club with hurling and football. Probably a parish off less than a thousand people. But that is not the reason it interesting.

    It's the one parish but previously there was two clubs they amalgamated completely about 5-6 years ago. But that is not the reason it interesting

    The reason it is interesting is that 5+ years ago they were intermediate hurling and Junior B football. . They have climbed two grades in both codes in 5 years ( hurling has two intermediate grades in Limerick ordinary Intermediate and Premier). Watching from the outside I imagine at most they have a combined total of 40 ish players. About 50% of the players on starting teams are dual players from what I can see.

    The structure laid out above is more or less the exact structure in Limerick accross both codes. In each code a team that gets promoted seldom gets relegated in the same year (I think once in both codes accross all divisions over the last 10 years). The structure is in place about 20+years.

    If Kildimo/Pallaskenry go senior they will be only one of a select group that have teams in both codes in Senior championship in Limerick. I expect that Rathkeale may be further along in these development this year and will win it but there are lads going out for that Club with winners medals falling out of there pockets and winning is a habit.

    That is the much the same structure that is used in all other codes hurling, Camogie, ladies football at all county level. Stop trying to reinvent the circle.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,542 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Have the provincials early on in the year.

    Then have a World Cup/champs league style championship - 8 groups of four and top 2 through to last 16.

    How the seedings are done would be - all 8 provincial finalists top seed then all beating semi finalists 2nd seed and so on..

    Positives - this means we keep provincial titles and everyone plays at least 3 games in championship.

    negative - what happens the league? Can we squeeze the provinces between league and championship ?



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