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Man arrested after violent incident in Kongsberg; Norway

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,378 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    There's always some gimp tripping over themselves to be first in with the edgelord nonsense after incidents like these. Ignore them. It's the equivalent of posting "Who?" on an RIP thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    I would imagine it was the commands of what ever group suited his mental state when he was looking for an outlet. He likely got his religious training from the same group.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    Norwegian Police have confirmed the accused is Espen Andersen Bråthen, a Danish citizen living in Norway, a convert to Islam and known to the Police. Friends claim he has mental health issues and say he never recieved any treatment or assistance with his issues. He left two videos with the same text in Norwegian and English before committing the murders.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    I'd like to know how he converted? Did he decide himself or go to any meetings? Surely they can arrest his religious tutors. A recent convert radicalised can't have had too many interactions.

    I find it off to announce being Muslim but not ISIS or whatever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    he's obviously a very sick individual, I wouldn't expect any logic or straightforwardness in his thinking / actions. A nutjob like this one can decide (announce) to be muslim and never ever spoke to a muslim before let alone has any contact to ISIS. That's the nature of nutjobs, behaving like a nutjob...



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    The difficulty is that ideologically motivated criminals are not as easy to 'reform' as those motivated by more traditional concepts like "money." We can do skills training, for example, to make people more employable and thus reduce the temptation to move to crime to gain money, but history is replete with celebrated persons who refused to change their ideological convictions, even if it meant a long and tortuous death. Yes, there have been attempts to try to 'de-radicalise' with the participation of moderate imams for example, but it's a far more difficult and unreliable proposition.

    As for being armed, it makes sense. Most countries have figured out that arming police doesn't mean they're any more likely to use the guns, with Japan being the obvious extreme in point. A gun in the boot of your car doesn't do you any good on that rare occasion that you need a gun right now.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just maybe there is a problem with the idealogy. While most Muslims are good people trying to livedtheir lives, more Islam generally means a more violent society in Europe and the middle east.

    Ireland needs to make changes now before we see more sh1t like this attack here



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,744 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Should we ban Islam. Round up all Muslims. What changes would you like to see?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    The typical scaremongering that always follows these cases…

    Religion is not the cause of this man’s actions. It takes a deranged or at least very susceptible mind to use an ideology to commit murder. Look at Breivik.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    nothing like that. just be more selective in our immigration policies. There is scope to make radical islam a proscribed organisation just like the IRA...special criminal court..member of illegal organisation..jailtime.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    How do you loose of at least 5 arrows without someone getting to you?

    Its not like he had an automatic bow and its not an ideal close combat weapon, surely someone could have rushed him between shots?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,265 ✭✭✭jmreire


    We will see..isis ( and other radical Islamic groups ) are not above claiming that an attack like this one was done on their orders, even if it had absolutely nothing to do with the attack. Makes for good propaganda and publicity for them.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    We all have things that intrigue us. Personally, I find the choice of weapon and method very interesting because it is unusual. Whatever the reason, this person chose a very personalised approach which deviates from most common terror attacks.

    I appreciate others might have a different view, or find other things more exciting, such as getting knocked up or having to pay their car tax. Or, of course, to use the opportunity to bash communities of a certain faith. Each to their own.

    Post edited by Jequ0n on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What did he have to do to convert? Is he a real Muslim? Can any white radical just say he is Muslim before going out and killing people so that the spotlight shines on Islamic terrorism?



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just needs to declare ,"There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger.", ideally in front of a Muslim witness. no cleric required



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭John Doe1


    Islam really is a parasite and has no place in the western world.

    This article written after the danish cartoons controversy is as relevant now as ever: https://samharris.org/the-reality-of-islam/

    Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. Throughout the E.U., Muslim immigrants often show little inclination to acquire the secular and civil values of their host countries, and yet exploit these values to the utmost—demanding tolerance for their backwardness, their misogyny, their anti-Semitism, and the genocidal hatred that is regularly preached in their mosques. Political correctness and fears of racism have rendered many secular Europeans incapable of opposing the terrifying religious commitments of the extremists in their midst. In an effort to appease the lunatic furor arising in the Muslim world in response to the publication of the Danish cartoons, many Western leaders have offered apologies for exercising the very freedoms that are constitutive of civil society in the 21st century. The U.S. and British governments have chastised Denmark and the other countries that published the cartoons for privileging freedom of speech over religious sensitivity. It is not often that one sees the most powerful countries on Earth achieve new depths of weakness, moral exhaustion and geopolitical stupidity with a single gesture. This was appeasement at its most abject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    A practiced archer can lay down fire at a rate only beat by the invention of the automatic rifle.


    Personally I have only fired a bow twice and I think it would be quite easy.


    He practiced a lot before hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,246 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,279 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Nobody wants to be the one person who runs towards the danger while everyone else stampedes in the opposite direction. I'd imagine a bow is as good as any single-shot rifle when the targets are close and until the bowman gets tired and slows down.



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  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No it doesn't mean that.

    What changes would you suggest Ireland make?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,549 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I always wonder in these cases, what 'radicalising' involves.

    Is it a one-way thing, with the guy just consuming propaganda for days/weeks on end, with anger buiding up inside him until he snaps, or is there somebody actually in contact with him, luring him in and eventually egging him on to do something like this.

    With ISIS it seems more likely to be a two-way process, whereas somebody like Breivik seems to have just arrived there more or less by himself (he was engaged in lots of online 'debates' but there was notobdy specifcally encouraging him), but maybe I'm wrong about that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,265 ✭✭✭jmreire


    So ISIS, Al-Quaeda, Boko Haram et all. do not use publicity and the media to further their aims Danzy? And your experience living in Islamic Country's is what exactly?????

    Post edited by jmreire on


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    This was in a shopping centre though wasnt it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,031 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Getting close, as in within touching range, would surely render a bow and arrow almost useless, its like trying to throw something at someone who is standing an inch away from you. Obviously there will still be some power to the arrow, but I still think you could take someone down with one. There is no one outside of Legolas who is pulling arrows and hitting targets at any great rate of fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,279 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    You underestimate the skills of Mohammed bin Legolas. It's not so much the difficulty of a bunch of people piling on one guy with a bow as it is getting anyone to be that first person to not do the natural thing and run in the opposite direction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,276 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I'd say people didn't even know what was happening. The average person is walking around in a daze and might not even identify the bow as a weapon or make a connection between the guy with the bow and the person lying bleeding on the ground with "something sticking out of him". That's assuming that they even notice the injured person.

    Even in situations where firearms are used, people are slow to react and often afaik think that it is the sound of fireworks or they're witnessing a prank. Once they realise, as you say, who is going to be thinking clearly enough to override their instinct to panic and run. At that point, it doesn't particularly matter if it is a gun, bow or knife that us being used as chaos ensues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    They are already. These groups are outlawed. We cannot and should not assume any Muslim is potential ISIS. We lived through the same discrimination ourselves and know better.

    It's a rather pathetic fact that we usually see white killers as lone wolfs, had mental issues, except when they claim to be Muslim it seems.

    When's the last time you heard anyone speak like that about Christianity when a protestor is driven over in Charlottesville or the FBI building is blown up or riots at the Capital building or after Breivik? Never.

    Another sad individual found an excuse to kill people over, because it suited his mental state. Nothing more to it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,472 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Predictably (if sadly) enough, a local resident has been quoted by the NY Post as saying that the worst part of the attack was “all the hate against religion and race that comes with it.”

    Yes, worse than the deaths and injuries suffered is the blaming of moderate Islam and multiculturalism. These people clearly hold the lives of their neighbours as being worthless next to their ideology, yet think they are not the extremists.



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  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i would consider the people like to local resident quoted above, the same as the neighbours telling reporters the murdered man was a nice quiet man etc, when he was the biggest scumbag around. They are just trying to protect themselves from future reprisals



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