Why no citizenship test?

Pixel Eater · 08-10-2021 02:54PM #1

So I know a few people who got/are in the process of applying for Irish citizenship. That's fine but after chatting to them it soon became apparent that they knew very little (practically nothing in one case) about Ireland. I mean basic stuff; like how many counties there is, who's the current Taoiseach, stuff like that.

So I was wondering what's the rationale of not having a citizenship test? We're a complete outlier in this, especially in a European context; there's not even some sort of language test. Would seem like a pretty obvious thing to have.

Mrs OBumble · 08-10-2021 02:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212242/why-no-citizenship-test

Huge numbers of foreign born irish nationals would fail - and they're already citizens.

votecounts · 08-10-2021 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993580#Comment_117993580

A sizeable portion of Irish born people would probably fail too.

ohnonotgmail · 08-10-2021 03:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993580#Comment_117993580

a large number of irish born irish nationals would fail

Pixel Eater · 08-10-2021 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993592#Comment_117993592

Well that would reflect badly on any individual who would fail but I guess they have the advantage of being born here and wouldn't have to take it.

Doesn't really help in answering my question though.

.42. · 08-10-2021 03:17PM

They could use the following Q&A which would be acceptable

https://youtu.be/HP-E3XLKu4A

iamstop · 08-10-2021 03:42PM

I don't really see the need for it. What purpose would it really serve? Try to instill some sense of nationalism in to people? To what end? So you can reject people's bid for citizenship for not knowing about Michael Collins or The Famine or Home Rule? Would that really be a defining factor for their suitability into Irish society? Should be more focused on people with violent and criminal tendencies over their ability to recall historical bullet points learned by rote.

Would be a waste of money and resources IMHO.

mikethecop · 08-10-2021 03:51PM

the way some Irish political parties re write history sure it wouldn't be fair to test anyone on Irish history .

Pixel Eater · 08-10-2021 04:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993769#Comment_117993769

Well the test could be designed to foster integration. Sure there would be a section on the basic history and geography of the country but also the applicant would need to know the political system, voting, how the various arms of the state work - practical stuff. And also knowing the culture of their new home; like traditions and festivals and the meaning behind them. And having a high ability to speak the language is vital.

And I don't see the issue about a foreigner knowing about the Famine; surely knowing a little about the country you decide to live in is a positive thing.

Pixel Eater · 08-10-2021 04:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993811#Comment_117993811

It would hardly just be a history test.

Dyr · 08-10-2021 04:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212242/why-no-citizenship-test

The people I know who went through citizenship said it was a joke.

Pixel Eater · 08-10-2021 04:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993922#Comment_117993922

What was a joke; the actually process of getting citizenship? How so?

Wombatman · 08-10-2021 04:36PM

How many variations of spuds should you server with the Christmas dinner?

What is the best way to get badly sun burnt while only getting 4 sunny days a year?

Will Mayo every win Sam again?

Who are Zig and Zag?

How much money should you stick in a wedding card for two guests?

True or False: It is right and proper to refer to the British as Tans?

Who coined the phrase "Don't make unnecessary journeys"?

What parish are you from?

Parachutes · 08-10-2021 04:40PM

We give them out far too easily anyway. Collect 7 crisp packets and become an Irish citizen comes to mind. A citizenship test should be the bare minimum.

08-10-2021 04:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993626#Comment_117993626

Really? You know this how?

08-10-2021 05:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994026#Comment_117994026

I'm not sure I would mandate a citizenship test to validate general knowledge about Irish history and culture. However, citizenship should be conditional on some baseline criteria such as:

Economically self-sufficient for four of the previous five years.
Have attained a minimum level of B1 in one of the official national languages.
Clean criminal record for the duration of tenure in Ireland.

There should be a minimum set of criteria that applicants need to fulfill, to be afforded the significant privilege of Irish citizenship.

Apiarist · 08-10-2021 05:10PM

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html :

------------------------

You must have lived in the State for a certain length of time. The specific requirements are that you:

Have a period of 365 days* (1 year) continuous reckonable residence in the State immediately before the date of your application for naturalisation and
During the 8 years before that, have had a total reckonable residence in the State of 1,460 days* (4 years)

------------------------

Reckonable residence for people who have no Irish spouse or ancestors basically means working full time and paying taxes for 5 of the last 8 years.

Applicants must of 'good character' and have to provide police reports from countries they lived previously.

There is no language check. It's a pity actually, why should only the people born in Ireland endure An Gaeilge in school ;)

Also, no paupers need apply, the application process fees total €1125.

Podge_irl · 08-10-2021 05:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994132#Comment_117994132

1) already exists to all intents and purposes.

You could have a test, and I understand the surface appeal, but ultimately what is the point?

08-10-2021 05:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994192#Comment_117994192

I agree that a test is superfluous. Personally and this is just my personal opinion, demonstrable evidence of five years' of economic self-sufficiency throughout the last eight, is too loose. I would bump this to six.

My other points stand. If you are applying to naturalize as Irish, it's reasonable to enforce minimum standards around language acquisition and (lack of) criminality.

standardg60 · 08-10-2021 05:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994132#Comment_117994132

If only we could apply those criteria to people who were born here and throw those who don't meet them out

osarusan · 08-10-2021 05:50PM

Most Canadians don’t know their country as well as they may think, a new poll suggests.The survey, released in time for Canada Day, asked a random sample of 1,645 voters 10 questions from the study guide given to those looking to become Canadian citizens.The results weren’t great. Only 12 per cent of respondents got eight or more correct answers, the threshold to pass the test. The average score was five out of 10.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/nearly-9-in-10-canadians-would-fail-the-citizenship-test-poll-1.4489704

There is turmoil in the strange world of citizenship tests. The UK is planning to revise its test for would-be Britons, adding questions on crucial issues such as the life of the poet Robert Browning. In France’s test, introduced this month, applicants must obviously know about Brigitte Bardot. Meanwhile a recent survey by Xavier University found that more than one-third of Americans would fail their own country’s naturalisation test. Only 8 per cent could name even one author of the Federalist Papers. And Denmark is quietly scrapping its test.

https://www.ft.com/content/d7489dc2-caea-11e1-8872-00144feabdc0

iamstop · 08-10-2021 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994026#Comment_117994026

The practical should be to make a cuppa the right way.

Rasher_Sausage · 08-10-2021 05:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212242/why-no-citizenship-test

Maybe get Irish born and who have lived here their entire life to do it also, as quite a number of Irish people know **** all about the country, and also maybe get them to take in Irish.

08-10-2021 05:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994294#Comment_117994294

Indeed. But that's irrelevant to this discussion.

08-10-2021 06:00PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994347#Comment_117994347

Again, how is that relevant to the naturalization process?

ohnonotgmail · 08-10-2021 06:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994100#Comment_117994100

by living in the real world.

Parachutes · 08-10-2021 06:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994132#Comment_117994132

Is it really too much to ask a potential new citizen of the state know simple things like there are 4 provinces, Micheal Martin is the Taoiseach, we gained our independence in 1922 etc?

FunLover18 · 08-10-2021 06:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994514#Comment_117994514

We didn't gain independence in 1922.

EDIT: depending on what you count as independence, we gained dominion status.

trashcan · 08-10-2021 07:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994026#Comment_117994026

Must be Tayto crisp packets though. Don’t imply we have no standards at all !

Podge_irl · 08-10-2021 07:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994514#Comment_117994514

Does it gain anything useful against the inevitable administrative cost?

Not to mention, as we now see in the UK, any citizenship test is dangerously open to political interference to ensure the "correct" answers are the ones the current government wants.

Galwayguy35 · 08-10-2021 07:21PM

Sure the government are going to give citizenship to all the illegals who broke the law here by over staying so I doubt a test is high on their list of things to do.

Free houses and money for all who turn up here and no chance of being sent back thanks to Roddy O Gorman

Why no citizenship test?

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