Stallions

tryfix · 02-07-2021 3:16am

After saying that he wouldn't be a speed stallion I had to eat my words Churchill had a fine 5f winner this week and he's had a good fortnight with I think 3 quality 7f winners as well as the 5f winner. He also has a good few 7f runners with around the 80 RPR mark which is significant quality at this early stage.

tryfix · 04-07-2021 3:21pm

Broome becomes the 3rd? individual G1 winner for Australia when taking the 1m4f Grand Prix De Saint Cloud.

The proposition that the Australias keep improving with age seems to have plenty of merit. That was a quality G1 on the kind of ground that the Arc is usually run on. Broome certainly wouldn't be out of place in the Arc field. He doesn't fold so he'd be hard to keep out of the frame if he ran prominently.

His 3 G1 winners won high quality races over 8-14f . Surely he deserves a crack at the type of the mares who Galileo gets funneled to him, surely Galileo has some leftovers that he could have? He's one of the few other sires at Coolmore who could produce proper Classic horses.

With all the 2yo 7f winners that Churchill has being getting it's on the cards that he is high up on the list of replacements for Galileo. If he can get an end of season G1 winning juvenile then he'll be well set for the future.

tryfix · 04-07-2021 3:25pm

Speaking of replacements for the champion sire Galileo.

Frankel is now £200k ahead of Galileo in the UK and Ireland Sires table. I can't see Frankel holding on but he won't be lacking in numbers of runners which will be a big help to him.

Mad about baa baas · 05-07-2021 9:40pm

Obviously he has to get there but I think st Mark's basilica is the most important and exciting prospective coolmore sire..siyouni is the real deal

tryfix · 17-07-2021 10:35am

I'm just cross posting a few posts from Faugheen's Galileo thread to the Stallions thread.

Galileo was so good that Coolmore were so starstruck by him that they hadn't even lined up a number 2 that could take over from him as Champion Stallion.

Now they are going to have to have to manage the transition. Even with a few crops still to race, this year Galileo has found himself behind Frankel in the UK and Ireland Stallion list.

It's pretty shocking how Charlie Appleby has managed to turn his 2 Frankel Colts into Derby winners which in Hurricane Lane's case at least has shown a willingness to keep improving that had been absent from most of Frankel's earlier Stock.

The rise of Frankel into a Derby and Oaks winning Sire seriously threatens Coolmore's stranglehold on the Champion Stallion title.

tryfix · 17-07-2021 10:36am

So, what Coolmore Stallion is going to put it up to Frankel as a Sire of 12f Classic horses?

No Nay Never : may eventually do a Danehill and move up from siring sprinter mailers to siring 8-12f G1 winners. We will have to see what happens when his most expensive crops start to race. Does anyone know if Coolmore have been sending him their own potential Classic producing broodmares?

Wootton Basset : has proven himself capable of siring Classic winning middle-distance horses. He's more likely to be getting Galileo mares sent his way than to be getting the bulk of the mares that Galileo himself has being servicing. If he takes off at Coolmore then those mares will come his way.

Ideally Coolmore would just substitute one son of Galileo for the dead sires covering list.

They have any amount of candidates. Which one will it be and will they prove up to the job?

tryfix · 17-07-2021 10:37am

It's too early to tell if Churchill will fill the spot. I haven't been over-impressed with his runners so far. They have been doing better over 7f than 6f so it looks like he will be able to produce 12f winners with ease.

Highland Reel.... Ye never know what could happen if he produces a G1 performer in his first crop but he's not fashionable or fast enough to get a high quality list if mares sent to him.

Gleneagles has been recovering his reputation this year after his first crop of decent juveniles failed to set the world on fire as 3yos. Can't see him getting that big of a promotion.

Although he's not a son of Galileo much has been expected off Caravaggio. He's now in the USA and likely to stay there. His early runners have looked great but few have shown any signs of greatness.

The Galileo job for next year looks like it's going to one of his grandsons.

St Mark's Basilica is a very likely candidate to fill Galileo's shoes in the breeding shed. He will be shiny and new and has proven himself at the highest level at both 2 and 3. He's fast and stays, he was precocious and trained on. He's by an ultra fashionable sire in Siyouni and he also carries the Galileo gene on the Dam side that has already worked with Galileo's galactic book of mares.

tryfix · 17-07-2021 10:38am

Why should Coolmore risk their best broodmares with all the potentially brilliant Stallions when they have the proven Camelot and Australia ready to roll.

I think myself that Australia deserves a promotion as does Camelot. Both stallions are well liked by trainers. My preference would be for Australia but Camelot could be stellar if he got a book of stellar mares.

In Coolmore's case O think that they should split Galileo's boom of mares into 3 with a third going to each of St Mark's Basilica, Australia and Camelot.

And please Coolmore stop sending do many good Galileo mares to War Front. The results might look okay but there's a dearth of Top Stallion prospects coming from the practice

tryfix · 21-07-2021 9:21pm

Churchill got his first stakes winner when the 2yo Ladies Church took a 5f Listed race today at Naas.

Not bad going at all for the young sire. He's steadily piling on the winners as it moves towards the big autumn pattern races for 2yos.

tryfix · 25-07-2021 7:35am

Yesterday's King George win for Adayar propels Frankel into a commanding lead over Galileo in the British and Irish Sires table. It would take a very good autumn run for Galileo to hang onto the title.

What are we to make of Frankel?

His reputation as a brilliant but quirky stallion has been transformed by the 2 Appleby trained Derby winners. He had been banging in the winners relentlessly since his first runners but most of his better horses flattered to deceive.

Mohaafeth and John Leeper are typical of the types of horses that had given Frankel a quirky reputation as a stallion. They looked like World Beaters until push came to shove and then the wheels came off.

Hurricane Lane and Adayar are proper racehorses, they have shown rock solid 3yo form when they both went on to complete consecutive dual G1 wins in top tier races.

They are miles away from the earlier crops of less than reliable Frankels that we have seen. Both horses are unusually loose limbed and comfortable in their big frames. Whether that's due to Appleby or their own exceptional genetics is a key question?

I don't think we have seen such athletic rollockers from Frankel before, we've seen any amount of big old tanks of stayers coming from Frankel, I think myself that he has thrown a lot of horses that look like So You Think. There was a neatness of physique to Cracksman that is absent in the Appleby pair. They are Panzers.

I guess the question that I'd like the answer to is, is this the new norm? A kind of Galileo-like domination of the Derby and Oaks races from here on in as success breeds more success. If you had millions and a high quality broodmare that could have gone to Galileo, well the new stopping off point would be get your 12f Classic horses from a mating with Frankel.

Anyone got opinions on what's going on with Frankel the stallion?

tryfix · 19-09-2021 2:03pm

So Ruler Of the World is off on his travels again. This time he leaves France to stand in Italy where his fee will be the same €5,000 as it was in France. While I feel that he never got a fair shake at Coolmore I think that this is a great move for him.

Coolmore's dud stallion Magician has been in Italy where he managed to cover 140 mares this year, a far cry from the crop of 19 2yos that Ruler Of the World has to represent him this year.

If a dud like Magician can cover 140 mares then a G1 producing stallion like Ruler Of The World will have a successful career in Italy.

Another potential Coolmore stallion Battleground ( War Front x Found ) who never quite realised his full racing potential is now off to a stallion career in Turkey.

Of the first crop Stallions the Galileo quartet of Churchill, Ulysses, Highland Reel and to a lesser extent Decorated Knight have been racking up some promising late season maiden winners. Those winners should be running in higher quality races as 3yos with every prospect of a few G1 performances to come.

26-09-2021 9:14pm

What are people's opinions on the new NH stallion in Coolmore....In Swoop

German derby winner and beaten a neck by Sottsass in the Arc

Robson99 · 07-10-2021 10:15am

Usually those German bred Stallions are sound of wind and limb. They usually are teak tough as well. I can see him being very popular

tryfix · 27-07-2022 4:41pm

So where are things at in the European stallion world?

For the time being Frankel has stepped into Galileo shoes. His first few crops were full of very good but very often flakey types. Consistency was the last thing that I had come to expect from most of the Frankels. However in the last two seasons he has been producing much more consistent classic types. The sheer volume of his Gp1 winners has ended any debate about his worthiness. If he is blessed with longevity he may eventually overhaul Galileo's individual G1 winners haul. I'd prefer to have a Dubawi over a Frankel anyday.

If not Dubawi then the biggest threat to Frankel's domination of the Classics is surely going to come from Coolmore. The Churchill's have kept improving with age. His current stamina limitations as a top stallion would be easily overcome by an increase in the quality of mares he covers. Will Coolmore give him the backing to launch him to the top of the stallion tables? Not likely with St Mark's getting the bulk of their best mares.

tryfix · 10-11-2022 3:57am

[quote]Darley stud fees

Dalham Hall

Stallion2023 fee2022 fee% changeDubawi£350,000£250,000+40Palace Pier£50,0000£55,000-9Too Darn Hot£40,000£45,000-11Pinatubo£35,000£35,000n/aFarhhPrivatePrivaten/aCracksman£17,500£17,500n/aIffraaj£15,000£17,500-14Perfect Power£15,000NEWn/aMasar£14,000£14,000n/aHarry Angel£10,000£12,500-20Territories£10,000£10,000n/aPostponed£5,000£6,000-16

Kildangan

Night Of Thunder€100,000€75,000+33Blue Point€35,000€40,000-12.5Teofilo€30,000€30,000n/aGhaiyyath€25,000€25,000n/aSpace Blues€16,000€17,500-8Earthlight€15,000€18,000-16Naval Crown€15,000NEWn/aProfitable€9,000€12,500-28Raven's Pass€7,500€7,500n/a

Haras du Logis

Victor Ludorum€15,000€15,000n/aRibchester€7,500€12,500-40Cloth Of Stars€7,000€7,000n/aMore fees news[/quote]

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/fees-2023/theres-no-bigger-name-in-the-business-dubawi-goes-to-career-high-350000/587548

Fee madness?

Dubawi gone from £250k to £350k. Have a feeling that since he's no spring chicken they are not too anxious to let others use him and if they want to then they can pay through the nose for the privilege of doing so.

Frankel gone from £200k to £250k. I'm not overfond of his stock's but there's certainly no denying that you're very likely to get one with an engine out of him. At £200k he's a very fair price for the likelihood of getting a decent horse out of him.

Flightline introduced at $200k and likely to be oversubscribed. They'll sell well at least until we have seen them on the racetrack.

tryfix · 10-11-2022 8:47am

In my last post it sould have read "Frankel gone from £200k to £275k" and seeing as he's actually at £275k you can forget about "At £200k he's a very fair price for the likelihood of getting a decent horse out of him" He's a great stallion but that extra £75k is a big whack of change" ☺️

[Quote]nother fine season for Frankel has led to the brilliant sire's fee being raised to £275,000 after Juddmonte released its star-packed roster for 2023.

The son of Galileo, who stood for £200,000 this year, was a dual world champion on the track and has transferred his brilliance to stud, being crowned British and Irish champion sire and European champion sire last term.[/quote]

Kingman looks fair value as his most expensive crops have just hit the tracks and they look good.

[Quote]The Juddmonte roster also features Kingman, responsible this year for the unbeaten Fillies' Mile winner Commissioning and Prix de la Foret and British Champions Sprint Stakes winner Kinross, as well as as the unbeaten Gimcrack Stakes winner Noble Style and Group 1-placed juveniles Nostrum and Epictetus.

His fee has been clipped to £125,000 from £150,000 in 2022.

Oasis Dream will continue to stand for £20,000 after another excellent season that saw his European champion two-year-old of 2021 Native Trail land the Irish 2,000 Guineas after a close second in the English equivalent.

As Europe’s leading sire of Group 1 speed, he has sired more than 220 stakes horses, including the winners of 30 Group 1 races.[/quote]

Stallions

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