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N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    According to the slane bypass website it looks like they are very close to picking the route

    http://www.n2slanebypass.ie/MDT0806GR0003D07%20A3%20PUBLIC%20CONSULTATION%20DAY%20NOV%202019.pdf


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The final N2 Slane bypass route has been published:

    http://www.n2slanebypass.ie/documents/MDT0806-RPS-00-N2-DR-C-DG0001%20S3%20P03.pdf

    The options selection report is also available here: http://www.n2slanebypass.ie/documents1.htm

    The scheme is now at design phase, ecology surveys have begun and topographical studies will begin in June. Detailed ground investigation works will begin later in 2020.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Few bits from the report:

    3.4km of Type 1 single carriageway. 3 roundabouts (N2 South, N51 & N2 North). Also will include traffic management measures in Slane, details of which are outlined in the report. Cost is approx €38m.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Single carriageway? :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Single carriageway is sufficient for Slane, particularly if the N2 south of Ardee is reduced to an R road, which should happen. Single carriageway is also less likely to attract such opposition as the previous proposal and cost less, both making it more likely to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Type 1 SC doesn't cost any significant amount less than T2DC. May be easier to get it through planning as T1SC and then amend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I believe it only costs 10% extra


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭duffman3833


    i myself would prefer the single carriageway as it will keep speed and noise down. I'm very close to this bypass and the less room it takes up the better as its going to be going over the boyne valley. I'm glad to see clogs turning to get this in motion but it may be a few years before we see anything physical happen


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII seem keen on the M1 being the main route for long distance traffic south of Ardee, even if they are extending the M2 north to Kilmoon Cross

    When the shortest possible route for this scheme was chosen it did seem likely it would be a barebones job. It’s just to provide a second river crossing here and nothing else, Type 1 over Type 2 was likely chosen due to volume. (The traffic volumes outlined in the options selection report would advocate Type 1 SC for a scheme of this length)


  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII seem keen on the M1 being the main route for long distance traffic south of Ardee, even if they are extending the M2 north to Kilmoon Cross

    When the shortest possible route for this scheme was chosen it did seem likely it would be a barebones job. It’s just to provide a second river crossing here and nothing else, Type 1 over Type 2 was likely chosen due to volume. (The traffic volumes outlined in the options selection report would advocate Type 1 SC for a scheme of this length)

    I wonder if...and IF... they decide to downgrade the N2 south of Ardee... would the M2 become our first 3-digit motorway; I.E. a regional motorway?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    L1011 wrote: »
    Type 1 SC doesn't cost any significant amount less than T2DC. May be easier to get it through planning as T1SC and then amend.

    I don't think those cost comparisons will hold true for this given it is a short stretch of road and the bridge will be a significant proportion of the cost. Doubling the width of the bridge here will have a big impact on cost.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII seem keen on the M1 being the main route for long distance traffic south of Ardee, even if they are extending the M2 north to Kilmoon Cross

    I know it has its own thread but I'd be amazed if the new road to Kilmoon Cross actually happened. When looking for projects to cut, this will surely be near the top of the list. The case for it must have been fragile already given the existing road is of decent standard with just a couple of problem junctions. Also can't see how the environmental case for a new section of motorway can be made there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I don't think those cost comparisons will hold true for this given it is a short stretch of road and the bridge will be a significant proportion of the cost. Doubling the width of the bridge here will have a big impact on cost.

    Eh, the point is that they have a virtually identical land take and pavement size. The bridge won't be doubled in size, it will be the same size for either type due to future proofing a T1SC for dualling.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I know it has its own thread but I'd be amazed if the new road to Kilmoon Cross actually happened. When looking for projects to cut, this will surely be near the top of the list. The case for it must have been fragile already given the existing road is of decent standard with just a couple of problem junctions. Also can't see how the environmental case for a new section of motorway can be made there.
    Yea agreed totally, it's just asking to be cut. It's a Greenie's nightmare and is 100% just for commuter traffic.
    L1011 wrote: »
    Type 1 SC doesn't cost any significant amount less than T2DC.
    That's an often repeated piece of misinformation on here.
    You're just talking about the build cost and forgetting about the maintenance cost. In the long run maintenance costs more than the build cost, so needs to be minimised.
    L1011 wrote: »
    May be easier to get it through planning as T1SC and then amend.
    I certainly hope they don't, it's a very sneaky piece of sleight of hand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,538 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spacetweek wrote: »
    That's an often repeated piece of misinformation on here.
    You're just talking about the build cost and forgetting about the maintenance cost. In the long run maintenance costs more than the build cost, so needs to be minimised.

    I was talking about build cost as I suspect was Pete_Cavan.

    Maintenance costs could be reduced by slightly increasing build costs and using armco, not cheese wire.
    spacetweek wrote: »

    I certainly hope they don't, it's a very sneaky piece of sleight of hand.

    You remember how basically the entire MIU network was granted planning as DC (avoiding local meetings screeching about "motorways")? Yeah, we're well used to this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I posted this I think a year or two ago this is TII'S view on type 2


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Sensible choice to make it Single. I think its the only logical solution here, a compromise between the environment and traffic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I know it has its own thread but I'd be amazed if the new road to Kilmoon Cross actually happened. When looking for projects to cut, this will surely be near the top of the list. The case for it must have been fragile already given the existing road is of decent standard with just a couple of problem junctions. Also can't see how the environmental case for a new section of motorway can be made there.
    I sure hope not, I remember travelling to Dublin from the North one evening and I saw a continuous stream of traffic going the other way, from the end of the M2 well into Meath at least. It would be insane not do something at least as far as beyond Kilmoon Cross.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The latest:

    * Ground investigation works (boreholes) to be complete by November 2020
    * Archaelogical investigation works to commence in November 2020
    * Topopgrahical survey & geophysical survey were completed in September 2020

    www.n2slanebypass.ie


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭duffman3833




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Public realm for the village to be included as part of the bypass proposal

    https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2021/05/21/new-street-layouts-and-upgrades-will-be-a-game-changer-for-slane/


  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭specialbyte


    marno21 wrote: »
    Public realm for the village to be included as part of the bypass proposal

    https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2021/05/21/new-street-layouts-and-upgrades-will-be-a-game-changer-for-slane/

    This is great to see. It is much needed with many other bypass projects across the country. The goal of bypass projects is to get long-distance strategic traffic out of villages like Slane. Too frequently bypasses get built and the villages and towns they bypass don't see the follow-up step of reallocating space for people walking, cycling or greenery to downscale the previously wide traffic heavy road through the village or town.

    I suspect ABP will look way more favourably at bypass projects that also look at improving and consolidating bypassed towns.

    Slightly unrelated topic, I've always thought that the Galway city bypass application should have been paired with some traffic changes in the city centre. Galway City Council have been reluctant to do any kind of pedestrianisation, bus gates or cycle lanes in the city until the bypass is built. My fear is that they build the bypass, then they don't follow through with any of the promised action. Over time Galway's city streets will fill back up with cars again, making it an uphill battle to reallocate space. It's great to see Meath County Council taking a different approach with Slane. The Port Tunnel in Dublin was a great combined approach. The week they opened the tunnel for HGVs they implemented new policy to restrict HGVs in Dublin City. If a project's goal is to reduce traffic then it should be paired with policy/infrastructure changes to make sure that traffic reduction is for the long term.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Latest:

    A preferred route has been identified. The detailed design and preparation of the statutory documents are underway. Phase 3 - Design and Environmental Evaluation, expected to be complete in Q3 2021. The preliminary business case is being progressed. It is anticipated that this scheme will proceed to planning approval late 2021 or early 2022. This scheme will be progressed with a public realm scheme. As this scheme has yet to proceed to statutory approval the cost estimates and programme for construction are not currently available. 

    Post edited by spacetweek on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭duffman3833


    Seems to be picking up a gear at last



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Eamon Ryan said yesterday in the Oireachtas Committee that this 3.4km single carriageway is looking like being a €100m+ project.

    Based on that, it's some time away yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 Spiaire


    I thought it was to be as Type 2 Dual?


    That Ryan fella's not got a clue about roads at all. The man is a muppet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    €100 m for a 400m-long bridge and 3km of approach roads is not expensive. Type 2 is most likely, as the road to either side of the project is Wide Single.

    The new N2 at Slane is actually exactly the kind of project that Eamon Ryan has pushed for - a small work that doesn’t encourage car commuting, with high benefits for the local environment. The current situation is clearly not good for the environment: heavy-goods vehciles idling at traffic lights is just carbon emissions for no economic good; on the new road, freight could operate much more efficiently. And, as I’ve said before, when transport is electrified, we will still need road improvements - in fact, for electric transport, the road is a bigger factor in transportation energy use than it is with combustion vehicles.

    Ryan is at the top of a notoriously fractious party; and when he talks down roads, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that a lot of this is a show to placate the hard-line elements in his party - the ones who want to completely ban cars and stop people buying fossil-fuel and go live in some imaginary Hobbiton ... largely because their well-paid profession and inherited wealth allows them to do without a car, and invest in expensive, high-tech heating systems for the house they own, rather than have to rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 Spiaire


    Those are all fair points.


    Ryan and his party were summed up nicely, there.

    It's time they were put out of office.

    They couldn't run a bath, never mind a party.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I support them and their policies, but I accept that environmentalism is a very broad subject with a huge amount of disagreement and it's hard to lead a party based on that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    €100m for a 400m-long bridge and 3km of approach roads would seem expensive. I checked the N25 New Ross Bypass as a sort of benchmark, it was just under €300m for 13.6km of dual carriageway, 1.2km of SC and an almost 1km long, unique bridge. That was a PPP and also includes design, build, finance, operate and maintenance of the road and bridge for 25 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 797 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    Has the preferred route gone for planning yet?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Not yet, supposed to happen in this quarter.

    Last update from the TII: "A preferred route has been identified. The detailed design and preparation of the statutory documents are underway. Phase 3 - Design and Environmental Evaluation, expected to be complete in Q3 2021. The preliminary business case is being progressed. It is anticipated that this scheme will proceed to planning approval late 2021 or early 2022. This scheme will be progressed with a public realm scheme."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The consultation on the Draft Slane Public Realm Plan 2022 closed last week but the details are here, harmless enough really, the kind of thing which should have been done a long time ago;



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Planning app was meant to happen in Q1, still no word.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭duffman3833


    Lets hope it not like the Galway one and has taken all factors into consideration and wont need to be re done



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Well the application to ABP hasn't been made yet and the Climate Action Plan was published long enough ago so no excuses. Galway also serves as a warning and you'd expect it be heeded.

    The Slane bypass also includes the public realm improvements so there is an integrated approach considering things beyond simply the road itself, unlike Galway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there a reason why the N51 on the Navan side of slane was never included to bypass the village in this project as you have a huge HGV volume also using the N51



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Meath Chronicle article says N2 scheme will be dual carriageway. Previously this scheme was dual then downgraded to single. Now either it's back to dual or else the journalist is talking out of his jacksie.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I think it will be dual, most likely a 2+2.

    N2 carries more traffic at Slane, and more HGV traffic, than it does along the more northern sections (Ardee-Castleblaney, Clontibret-Border), which are both to be built as Type 2 DC..



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    OK but it's about time the toll was removed on the M1 Drogheda, N33 renumbered to N2, and N2 from Dublin-Ardee renumbered to N33.

    Not sure how much longer it's going to take the TII/DoT to realise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Between Kilmoon and slane you will be left with a 15km strip of standard carriageway between two dual carriageways. Will we long term see them connected up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Apart from the toll removal (which is a different matter), what purpose would this serve at all except to confuse people who are used to the existing route numbers? N33 and N2 are both Primary roads already, and there is absolutely no legal significance to a route having a single-digit number.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The options selection report was done on the basis of Type 1 SC so that is the most likely cross-section.

    I wouldn’t be holding my breath for the Rath - Kilmoon cross project.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It wasn't ever off the table. Last reportage was in Jan this year which confirmed it would go to ABP this year. That's still the situation.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Off to ABP in Q3 2023 all going well.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Listed in Dept of Public Expenditure (page 30 of the PDF) as contractor procure in Q4 2024 and construction from 2024-2026 which doesn't sound plausible.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭Norteño




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