What scares those who scream "conspiracy theorist"

ShatterAlan · 12-09-2021 2:51am #1

Is it that they can't contemplate the dreadful possibility that they and their family might be killed for a monetary or political gain.

People want to think that their existence has a meaning and that nobody would snuff that out.

Except if someone was to gain greatly and your death was just part of the operation then why would one think it unfathomable?

King Mob · 12-09-2021 2:59am

As per the other thread, no one holds this position.

This is just a really pathetic strawman that you are using to lash out because you are upset by people pointing out how your beliefs aren't very well thought out and pointing out that you and you fellow conspiracy theorists are acting very dishonestly.

Why do you believe that none of the twitter/bitchute/parler cranks you follow would not be willing to trick and mislead you to turn a profit and/or get attention?

growleaves · 12-09-2021 10:34pm

I think they are operating off completely different assumptions so that all or most conspiracies are excluded a priori. So in that sense conspiracy theorists and anti-conspiracy-theorists are talking past each other.

Some people even train themselves in certain assumptions, e.g. the so-called 'philosophical razor' ascribing incompetence to every act that looks malicious. That assumes a more innocent view of human nature than traditional morality indicated imo.

To answer the question more directly though I think a lot of people would feel despair if they doubted the goodness of the linked System of governments, international organisations, public officials, philanthropists, 'self-made' celebrity billionaires etc.

Also you could be bringing on a world of trouble, now or in the future, taking an oppositional stance to the most powerful people in society. Without strong motivation to do so, why bother?

Dohnjoe · 12-09-2021 11:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882614#Comment_117882614

Conspiracies happen all the time, you only have to open a newspaper. Collusion, insider deals, national fraud, etc.

That's entirely separate from individuals who make up bullshit, e.g. Qanon, Chemtrails, 9/11 inside jobs, etc and try to pass it off as the truth.

The Nal · 13-09-2021 10:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058208422/what-scares-those-who-scream-conspiracy-theorist

Nothing specific anymore. Just "but but, conspiracies are real" posting. Yep they happen. But none of the nonsense thats been posted over the last 18 months has turned out to be true.

Lost track of the amount of predictions made on these forums. With authority too. "Wait until the summer, lets see, the elites are taking over, oh well winter is coming, that was just a trial run, theyre going to kill us with the vaccine, theyre going to destory all small business...".

And here we are. The sun rose this morning, again. ESRI saying we're looking at 12-15% growth by year end.

Most of these posters have scurried away. Probably mortified by their behaviour. As they should be.

generic_throwaway · 14-09-2021 12:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883817#Comment_117883817

Well, as you know, we've all been microchipped now with the mark of the beast. And the Plandemic is genocide. And also the vaccine is genocide.

We should know within a few months whether those claims will be a) TRUE or b) DROPPED AND NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN.

I wonder which it will be?

King Mob · 14-09-2021 12:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887795#Comment_117887795

Dont forget that the pandemic is also fake and hasn't killed anyone.

14-09-2021 12:49am

People can think what they like. It's when they insist that their opinion is fact that they become frustrating. They don't have evidence/research (theirs or others') accomplished - it's just an idea they have. And as I said, it's totally fair enough to have ideas, but to throw insults at people for not agreeing with them, to insist that the "evidence" they have gathered trumps far more in-depth research, when they somehow "know the real story" through Internet material but the rest of us don't, they lose credibility.

When I was younger I used to believe that the moon landing might be fake. I don't believe in Pizzagate but I do believe in a child abuse cover-up involving high-ranking peeps (although it's becoming increasingly likely but I've believed it for years before this). But I can't just be saying "it's the truth" - I don't know that it is. And something being too far fetched is an ample reason to be sceptical. Like space or 9/11 or Covid.

Markus Antonius · 14-09-2021 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887846#Comment_117887846

No people CAN'T think what they like.

Thinking what you like leads to dangerious misinformation.

Dangerous misinformation that can lead to EXTREME views such as anti-vaxr views

or mass shootings or other LIES like covid19 is man-made

or holocaust denial

Why do you beleive the moon landing is fake?

Why do you keep avoiding questions?

Why do you believe in Pizzagate?

How would so many people keep it a secret?

Why would America want to kill it's own citizens in 9/11?

You sound like you love Putin and his LIES!

Why do you keep running away?

And dodging all my questions?

I want an answer to each one of my questions above otherwise you are antisemitic.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 1:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887878#Comment_117887878

Lol.

Complete and utter misrepresentation.

No one has done this to you.

And yes, you have stated directly that you believe the moon landing and all other space flights are faked. People might point that out to you.

Likewise when people like yourself dodge questions and run away from questions, they might point to that two.

No one has accused you of being antisemitic because you've been running from difficult questions. This is a complete and utter lie on your part.

And you are of course totally free to claim whatever nonsense you like. You're totally free to use all the dishonest tactics you've been using.

However people are also free to point these things out.

sydthebeat · 14-09-2021 8:01am

The very first question any "conspiracy theorist" should ask themselves in regards to whatever their "theory du jour" is occupying their YouTube is...

"why".... "why does this conspiracy theory exist"

If they cannot answer that very simple question then that should be the point at which they should begin questioning what they are watching / reading.

"why would covid be man made?"

"why would the moon landings be fake?"

"why would covid vaccinations cause me to become magnetic?"

"why would an 83 year old man want a 'great reset' of society and how would he have the power to do so?"

"why do the lizard people want to take over?"

Its easy to see the "why" in some of the reported conspiracies we read in newspapers, be it insider trading, espionage etc. You can trace the line between "A happened in order for B to happen which lead to C".

If you cant do that for your conspiracy theory then you must start questioning if you are the one being manipulated

robinph · 14-09-2021 9:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887878#Comment_117887878

So it's not that you haven't seen the questions that get asked then as you've been keeping a list of them. Why is it that conspiracy theorists then pretend that the questions are too difficult, or that they are being picked on?

To be able to answer such a basic question about a particular conspiracy theory such as "Why?" really shouldn't be too much of a challenge and should be the first thing that you ask yourself about anything. Certainly before you head online to promote your theory, even if it's not fully fleshed out in terms of the finer details, you should have an answer to the question of why figured out.

Dohnjoe · 14-09-2021 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117887878#Comment_117887878

You are free to think whatever you want. But you decided to join a public forum and state your claim as fact, then attack anyone asking for details, and throw a tantrum when asked the most basic questions about it

There have been posters here who have said that e.g. Satan is behind everything, but they actually attempt to answer questions and explain their theory. You don't do any of that, you evade and deflect, which are hallmarks of someone who knows they are lying. On top of all that you have the gall to preach about the truth.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888312#Comment_117888312

There's no shame in answering the question of "Why" with "I don't know." There's nothing wrong with just admitting that you can't explain an aspect of the theory or admitting you can't solve an issue with it someone's brought up.

At the same time, there's nothing wrong with accepting that being unable to explain these things are a legitimate reason for not accepting a conspiracy theory or believing it's a bit silly. Especially given how many conspiracy theory arguments are some variation of "the official story can't explain X".

The reason conspiracy theorists don't want to do this is because they aren't interested in what's actually true. They want the conspiracy to be real and they want to have the secret knowledge that the sheep are too dumb to get. Admitting that you can't figure out a problem or that there's something that doesn't make sense with the conspiracy theory ruins that fantasy. It's hard to pretend you're a rebel researcher with secret knowledge when you have to say that you don't know something.

Usually people just dismiss the conspiracy theory as silly nonsense, which lets the theorist play martyr and decry everyone as closed minded. They rarely have to actually deal with the issues in the conspiracy theory. They certainly don't challenge each other's conspiracy theories even when they are completely opposed.

But here, they get asked awkward questions.

Hence all the ignoring and whinging.

sydthebeat · 14-09-2021 10:26am

and we have seen with the capitol hill insurrection the very real and significant results of what happens when conspiracy theories go unchallenged and / or are taken up in a swell by a significant number of people.

these "silly nonsense" comments, while valid, are no longer the correct response for stuff that can actively damage people and society.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888646#Comment_117888646

Agreed.

The problem is that trying to reason people out of conspiracy theories doesn't really work either. As we've seen conspiracy theorists will just ignore and block out anything that causes doubt in their beliefs or highlights the fact their beliefs are wrong.

They know that's what they're doing. But as I said, the truth doesn't really matter to them.

The best we can hope for here is to challenge the beliefs in public ways and show people how ridiculous they are and how dishonest their defenders are, and hope that helps people to realise this before they fall down the rabbit hole.

For people who are already deep into that stuff, I've read some things that suggest that the best way to pull them out of the conspiracy theory cult is for people close to them do it. So hopefully by showing the arguments against the theories, it will also help increase the general knowledge of these for normal people.

weisses · 14-09-2021 10:46am

Why did the US government hide the involvement of Saudi officials in the 9/11 attacks?

There are always conspiracies, involving valid an less valid theories, Always using the less valid ones as a stick to beat the valid ones is laughable but a tactic used all the time in this forum

King Mob · 14-09-2021 10:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888726#Comment_117888726

But who decides which are the "valid" ones? How can you tell which ones are valid and which are not?

There's plenty who would decry your very silly beliefs about 9/11 as not at all valid.

For example, you believe that WTC7 was destroyed using tons of secret high tech silent explosives for no discernible reason only to have it all exposed when the person behind the plot admits it on national TV.

What reasonable person would call this a valid idea?

weisses · 14-09-2021 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888760#Comment_117888760

Problem is you and your fellow skeptics are having free reign (after a sneaky mod intervention regarding the forum charter) resulting in having free reign in destroying the spirit of the forum.

Then you are being disingenuous regarding my believes around WTC7 and then require me to answer the validity of a position I never had

Classic King Mob style .... slow handclap

King Mob · 14-09-2021 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888806#Comment_117888806

Well the forum has been very busy of late. So not sure what you're talking about. Or what you mean about "free reign".

You're also welcome to explain what is wrong with my description of your beliefs. I've found you guys rarely, if ever, are direct and straight forward with your beliefs and you in particular are very evasive when asked. So I admit, I'm putting together the summary of your beliefs from inference rather than direct statements.

So show me up as this dishonest asshole you think I am. Explain what your real beliefs are. Explain why they are valid and why other conspiracy theorists beliefs are not.

Or don't. Ignore my post, avoid the question, whinge and rant. Which will highlight the point I'm making.

14-09-2021 11:17am

You dont own real life events such as political backscratching, organized crime, murder plots, and inside trading and conflicts of influence.

These are not the things normal people object to when they lol at the tin foilers.

Everybody knows theres corruption and double dealing, thats why the word conspiracy exists in common speach, as well as in legal terms.

What gets loled at is that which is lol-worthy.

Mk ultra was a real thing, jfk was a real thing, gulf of tonkin was a real thing ... therefore the secret milkmens society as a tool of google is trying to program us to be commies.

Thats the type of sht youre ridiculed for.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888855#Comment_117888855

This is a good point.

There are valid, reasonable versions of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. For example the idea that elements in the government knew the attack by Al Qaeda was coming, and then allowed it to happen by not passing the information onto agencies who could stop it.

But not once have I ever seen a conspiracy theorist here or elsewhere actually claim this and only this. There's always secret demolitions or sci fi technology or dancing spies or people confessing on national TV.

The reason for this is twofold. First, conspiracy theory peddlers aren't interested in producing content for it because it's not very exciting or eyecatching. Especially next to the videos talking about secret mini nukes and holograms.

Secondly, it doesn't really scratch the rebel researcher itch. It doesn't result in any of the wild attention getting claims and any evidence for it would be dry geopolitical stuff and the names of guys no one has heard about. And because none of the conspiracy theory media is producing catchy videos to watch and share, it would be relying on the actual research ability of the theorist rather than their ability to watch youtube videos.

weisses · 14-09-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888827#Comment_117888827

It is busier because your ilk has basically free reign after the sneaky charter change ... So you are correct in that one

Its your description of my beliefs that is flawed. I cannot explain something you believe I said when I don't remember this description regarding my beliefs. If I said what you posted then quote me on it. You made the claim.

So please show me where I said that I believe that WTC7 was destroyed using tons of secret high tech silent explosives.

If you have trouble quoting me on that then don't be surprised that I avoid or ignore the rest of your waffle.

weisses · 14-09-2021 11:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888855#Comment_117888855

If in 2001 I would have said The saudi royals/government ( An american ally) are involved in the 9/11 attacks I would have been ridiculed on this forum ....

King Mob · 14-09-2021 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888971#Comment_117888971

Ok. I can't provide a quote to back up the claim that you believe that. I could be completely wrong there.

How do you believe WTC7 was secretly demolished in a way that resulted in none of the explosions being heard?

Not arguing the specifics or truthfulness of these claims mind. I'm just trying to get you to be direct and clear about what you believe. Something I don't think you can do.

I'm also not sure what "sneaky charter change" you're refering to. And I'm still confused about what you mean by "free reign".

robinph · 14-09-2021 11:48am

There are valid, reasonable versions of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. For example the idea that elements in the government knew the attack by Al Qaeda was coming, and then allowed it to happen by not passing the information onto agencies who could stop it.

Which is incompetence rather than conspiracy.

A conspiracy along those lines could be similar to the claims around the bombing of Coventry during WW2 where there are some suggestions that Britain knew that the raid was to happen, but let it proceed in order to save their intelligence sources. Now that would be a conspiracy with an actual basis behind it and some reasoning as to why a government would allow their civilians to be killed, even if not directly by their own hand. Of course there isn't actually anything to show that it was known in advance what the actual target was as the code breaking wasn't yet that progressed until after the raid.

Keeping the fact that you have broken Enigma would be approaching worthy of sacrificing a city for in the middle of a war. Not seen anything to suggest what the US government would want to sacrifice the thousands at the WTC, and the Pentagon and White House/ Capitol for though.

Fighting Tao · 14-09-2021 11:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888971#Comment_117888971

The charter is there from May 2015. Over 6 years ago! What has changed?

Fighting Tao · 14-09-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058208422/what-scares-those-who-scream-conspiracy-theorist

The only people that seem scared are conspiracy theorists. They are terrified of questions about the big bad wolf who is coming for everyone. Most rational people assess situations and apply critical thinking and judge wether to be scared of not, or even if there is a valid reason to be scared. I have seen nothing in these forums to make me scared at all.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 12:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889001#Comment_117889001

Well I think that if some one was arguing for this version of the conspiracy and they were claiming that the information was deliberately blocked for the express purpose of allowing the attacks to happen, then it would be malice more than incompetency.

As for motive, I think the general one we here a lot is not unreasonable: the attacks were faked/carried out to get support for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But for some versions conspiracy theories I don't thing this is a reasonable motive. For example, in some versions the US government has so much control over every agency, the media and both political parties, that it doesn't make sense for them to require more support for a war they wanted.

I think this claim has fallen out of fashion a bit given how long it's been, how boring the topic is and the general right wing swing of conspiracy media in the last few years.

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2021 12:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888971#Comment_117888971

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889038#Comment_117889038

I too would be very interested to know of this charter change. Can you clarify what you mean by this @weisses ?

Dohnjoe · 14-09-2021 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888985#Comment_117888985

Challenge any claim here and you are likely to be ridiculed, labelled a "sheep", a "shill", receive snide remarks, your basic questions ignored repeatedly, requests for details evaded, blocked, ignored, etc. So don't play that victim card thanks.

Also you have a long history with 9/11 trutherism, and you tried to change the charter to suit that. It's nasty stuff, you've be quickly dealt on any normal forum (e.g. science, history) for antics like that.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889247#Comment_117889247

Don't forget threaten. Some creep managed to find out my real name and has been passing it around to conspiracy theorists.

14-09-2021 1:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888985#Comment_117888985

If you were to be ridiculed for saying that it would be because in 2001 forums would have been filled with all sorts of theories pulled out of all sorts of holes.

"Your" (its not yours) theory would have been mixed in with 'its the Russians' 'its the Aliens' and all sorts of shyte. The innundation would have lead to a single righteous universal demand 'proof or gtfo'.

And if you didnt have it then your theory in fairness was as good as 'its the British monarchy and Rotschilds'. Or any other of the hundreds of theories.

How can you blame people.

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117888996#Comment_117888996

Not going through that again.

We discussed this at length ... I think it ended by you not wanting to engage anymore because according to you I was to dumb to understand the subject matter so my questions wouldn't need answering.

You again were disingenuous about me by claiming something ... why ? do you need to look smart to keep the little circle jerk going ?

King Mob · 14-09-2021 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889476#Comment_117889476

Cool. You're avoiding the question then. Thanks for illustrating my point.

Conspiracy theorists aren't even able to outline their own beliefs.

You are now also making a claim about me. Are you able to provide a quote where I called you stupid? Please provide it.

As for why: I don't think my characterisation of your beliefs is disingenuous. I can't provide specific quotes, but I believe that in broad strokes it's an accurate description of what you believe. (If you disagree, please just explain what you actually believe and show me up.)

Any differences would be minor and wouldn't substantively alter my point.

You believe very silly things about 9/11 that other conspiracy theorists would dismiss as invalid.

You don't seem to have any method to determine valid from less valid conspiracy theories.

Dohnjoe · 14-09-2021 1:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889476#Comment_117889476

You have claimed for years that 9/11 was some sort of inside job, but repeatedly refused, point blank to demonstrate what that inside job was. Nothing to discuss.

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889099#Comment_117889099

It is discussed here

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058081100/charter-feedback

The charter was put together by input from users, mods, cmods and i think even some admin input was given in 2015 Then in 2019 a mod without consulting anyone, changed the charter because it basically didn't suit his point of view and clashed with the opinion he had in the threads he participated in himself. The original charter had some clauses in it that protected posters from being ridiculed and badgered to provide concrete evidence, all in line with the nature of this specific forum.

An example of what we have to deal with here illustrated by what Johndoe posted above

quoted below

"Also you have a long history with 9/11 trutherism, and you tried to change the charter to suit that. It's nasty stuff, you've be quickly dealt on any normal forum (e.g. science, history) for antics like that."

If you look through the charter feedback you can see I had an issue with the charter being changed by just 1 "biased" mod. specially if you take into account the long process it took to get a proper charter in place in the first place.

Johndoe is a perfect example of how The truth is twisted and turned to suit the narrative

King Mob · 14-09-2021 1:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889533#Comment_117889533

Lol I like how this thread is Overheal trying to get you to just outline what your issue is in concise terms. And failing.

Pretty illustrative of my point.

robinph · 14-09-2021 1:46pm

FYP

The original charter had some clauses in it that ~~protected posters from being ridiculed and badgered to provide concrete evidence,~~ enabled posters to just make any claims and never provide any reason to back up their claims

What do you hope to achieve from a discussion forum for debate on Conspiracy Theories if debating those theories is not permitted?

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889601#Comment_117889601

Debating the topic is fine, sharing content as to why you come to a certain conclusion also

Asking for concrete proof as to why someone beliefs a certain conspiracy theory is not

You need to take the nature of the forum in context as well.

The Nal · 14-09-2021 1:52pm

Asking for concrete proof as to why someone beliefs a certain conspiracy theory is not

What about asking for a bit of credible evidence?

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2021 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889533#Comment_117889533

you're pissed because people are asking you for proof of what you say? Blimey.

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889577#Comment_117889577

Is that the same discussion I asked him several times why the change was necessary in the first place ?.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 1:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889642#Comment_117889642

No one here is asking for concrete proof.

We struggle to get you guys to just outline what you believe, never mind evidence, never mind proof.

King Mob · 14-09-2021 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889666#Comment_117889666

Yup. And you kept dodging questions. It's your go to tactic it seems.

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889660#Comment_117889660

It was a charter a lot of people worked on because the CT forum was a toxic place and the years after implementation It worked just fine until a mod decided it didn't suit his narrative and removed sections that provided some protection for people posting CT's

weisses · 14-09-2021 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889659#Comment_117889659

Define credible

robinph · 14-09-2021 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889642#Comment_117889642

Concrete proof would be good, but if there is concrete proof then it's unlikely to be a conspiracy theory anymore and would just be a conspiracy that has now been uncovered.

All that is being asked for is any kind of grounding for the theories. Doesn't have to be concrete, could be a very sandy foundation for the theory, but in the majority of cases there is nothing but hot air and zero thought clearly put into what the theory is, or why something would happen in the way claimed let alone actually if something may have been possible.

weisses · 14-09-2021 2:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889676#Comment_117889676

I have an issue with not directly answering stupid self explanatory questions ... hence my lack of responding to most of your input

In that particular discussion Overheal removed the 2 key points regarding a bit of protection for people posting theories ... Its a bit silly to ask which ones I have an issue with ... He was fishing and I wasn't biting

sydthebeat · 14-09-2021 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889642#Comment_117889642

why dont we move this forum to the sci fi and fantasy section of "entertainment" then? or even the religion section?

seeing as you wish to be allowed to post your beliefs without question.....

Dohnjoe · 14-09-2021 2:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889533#Comment_117889533

Right.

There used to be a rule on this forum that conspiracy theorists didn't have to provide evidence for their conspiracies. Certain mods were just tired of moderating all the crap so they created it (one in particular), it was heavily argued against. No one needs to explain how absurd that rule was.

It's glaringly obvious you want special treatment for conspiracy theories to facilitate your fringe views and shield them from normal scrutiny (as is the case on normal forums)

Like I said, you wouldn't pull this **** on any history forum, making a sub-forum with "special rules" specifically to facilitate deniers.

What scares those who scream "conspiracy theorist"

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