Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

F1 2021 Round 14: Monza

1678911

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Not really sure put I think Yuki Tsunodo did not even start.

    No idea what happened to Pierre Gaslys car but he just retired it I think. Its like neither of them started at all. Must have had engine problems.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Well he’s correct when he says one was a genuine overtaking attempt at the other was a desperate attempt to keep up.

    There is a narrative being pushed that Verstappen is a reckless/dangerous driver, but I think it’s wide of the mark. He’s aggressive, sure, but he is brilliant at finding and exploiting gaps. He earns space for himself, legally the vast majority of the time, a craft he’s really improved over the last 2 seasons.

    I find wheel to wheel to be probably the weakest part of Hamilton’s overall ability. He likes to stick a wheel in from time to time, but to be fair it’s rarely something he needs to worry about!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,292 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you,

    But I'd have picked C.S Lewis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I've taken a (bad) frame-by-frame video loop of the turning of both drivers. Focus on Max's front right and Lewis' front left wheels and how they're in sync and both turn left at the same time. Max didn't hold the right lock longer than necessary.

    https://streamable.com/q0jvsd



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    If he hit the brakes he could have avoided it but that's not even in Max's vocabulary.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,144 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    But he would have needed to hold it longer than Lewis because he was trying to go round the outside. In all honesty, it's a move Max gets away with more often than not as others usually back off to give him room or their race will be compromised or ended early.

    Considering where Lewis is when he does turn in I don't see a whole lot wrong in all honesty.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,491 ✭✭✭Harika


    Seeing Russell inhelmet camera I wonder why people don't crash more often



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    Bottas got a podium by default and made a mess of what should have been a simple overtake of Perez. He deserves zero plaudits for scything through Saubers, Astons and Williams. That is the least he is expected to do. It's the bigger beasts he struggles against.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    You have a very distorted view of reality. I wont argue with you anymore since all the points I would make have already been said and even the stewards have made there decision. For you to continue to blame Lewis for this incident even after Christian and Max saying it was a racing incident is insane. Anyways you really should just go watch UFC or something since you prefer fanboying over actually appreciating that this is the most exciting season of F1 in years.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Corben Dallas


    It was a racing incident. They are both to blame. Maybe Max slightly more so because the move is very aggressive. The Sausage kerb is there as the limit of making the corner and if u are beyond it u are cutting the corner.

    The key to getting lap time (at least in the old days) is have a car that can use all the Monza kerbs and 'muller' the kerbs. ie be super aggressive with the kerbs. Normally u could run your left front tire up to the centre of the sausage and bounce across to the outside exit (flat kerbs) If u take too much kerbs it will bounce your car beyond the exit and u will be wide and lose speed/exit traction. Lewis turned in and if Max didnt back out there was going to be an accident. The fact that Max's rear wheel hit Lewis's rear wheel means they were completely level with each other on exit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    Alonso has chipped in with his thoughts

    His view basically mirrors mine, I guess some of the fanatics on this thread will be saying he should go watch UFC as he knows nothing about F1 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    You know someone has completely lost the argument when they have no points to make and resort to personal attacks.

    As someone who’s been following F1 for decades, like any neutral observer all I want to see is fair racing not being penalised and dirty driving not being rewarded, which sadly hasn’t been the case this year. Now please stop trolling if you have nothing to contribute, it lowers the tone of the discussion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,280 ✭✭✭Glico Man


    Confirmation bias if anything. Stewards have given their decision, and punishment has been meted out to Verstappen who was decided to have predominantly caused the incident. No one in the F1 community (bar Fernando here) has attributed blame to Hamilton, aside from your soapboxing about it of course.

    Racing incident at least, Verstappen to blame at the very worst (according to the stewards). Just take it on the chin for your favourite driver, 3 place grid drop isn't the worst penalty. Isn't even consistent with most of their other decisions these days, but take the good with the bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I really hope you are not somebody's boss/supervisor because I'd say you'd be considered some (insert unpleasantness) to work for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I doubt even Max, if he was driving that Mercedes-Benz, could have carved his way from the back to win that race in the same circumstances. Throughout the weekend Bottas got pole for the sprint, won the sprint and carved through to the podium. That's the best performance of the weekend by any driver by a country mile. Once it was clear that Perez had a penalty incoming I imagine Bottas would have received instructions not to risk any outlandish lunge for a chase down of the McLarens.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    And Alpines and Ferraris.

    So he was handed Pole for the Sprint, was he? He didn't win the Sprint, did he?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭barryribs


    Neutral observer? Weren't you saying that Toto was sending brown envelopes at Silverstone?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Agree with this, and while I most of the time agree with the stewards, I think they’ve judged based on the outcome rather than purely on the incident itself(which they had stressed in Silverstone is the only way they can judge and which is the correct way to do things).

    Contact happens all the time in F1, and this was in a low speed corner and had a very unfortunate series of contacts to have the cars end up the way they did. You could argue both ways about the room but by penalising Max I think it’s essentially saying that he should have known that outcome was on the cards which is unlikely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    Which part do you think is inaccurate? I'm genuinely curious how someone could be so blinkered.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    In the cold light of day, I don't think Lewis is obliged to give room there, he's entitled to defend the corner as Max isn't really ahead at any point. Max should have pulled out. But the result was a bit freakish the way the car bounced on top of the Merc.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,547 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I agree. They put a note at the bottom of the judgement to say they judged it solely on the incident and not on the outcome, but I wonder if that's totally accurate.

    They might have thought they have to punish someone or else they will get the impression that they won't be penalised for crashing. Ad that to the desire no to be the one to puss out of a crash and you have a near guarantee of a crash every time they are in a battle on track for position.

    I think it was a racing incident. Might be 60:40 one way or the other depending on the interpretation of the rules. But it shouldn't have been a 3 place grid penalty for the next race. Such a shame to mess with the next race and reduce the chances of a close battle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭Anjobe


    The first point you made - was the second car alongside - was completely fallacious, and the rest of the argument crumbles from there. The overtaking guidelines for drivers and stewards were widely discussed in the context of the Silverstone incident and were referenced again in the stewards decision here which was posted earlier on the thread, so there is no really no excuse for getting it so wrong. The point at which a car must be predominantly alongside in order to have the right to be given racing room is at corner entry, the points of contact between the cars when they collide half way round or at the the exit of the corner are not relevant. The stewards decision yesterday makes the very clear point that Max was not far enough alongside at the entry to the corner to have the right to be given room.

    And your comment about being a "neutral observer", that gave me the best laugh I have had in ages. You have managed to be less impartial about this than even Christian Horner, which is really going some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭barryribs


    My time is more valuable than that. I'll leave you with this from a nEuTraL

    Hamilton is a compulsive liar, all he's done is said he "might" have long covid to the British media who have lapped it up. No doctor has diagnosed him with anything and he was happily bouncing around after winning the previous race by putting his competitor in hospital. Long covid doesn't suddenly appear 9 months later, coincidentally on a day when you performed poorly and had to do a bit of work for once.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,268 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Bottas has the fastest car on the grid, should he not be expected to pass all the mid field? Especially at Monza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    It took Lewis Hamilton 42 laps to get past Lando Norris, and he lost it again with his botched pitstop. Surely with the fastest car on the grid Lewis should have made short work of the midfield cars? Especially at Monza?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,876 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt



    Doesn't like the idea of accusing someone of a deliberate accident...but does it anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Joeface


    Crashes need to be discussed less .

    Yesterday on merit Mclaren beat both Redbull and Mercedes . Ricciardo was incontrol the whole race and even after the Pitstop round was head .

    There was no Rain, there was no Damage issues , there was nothing Max could do in the first stint behind Riccardo , It took lewis a long time to over come Lando as well and even after the pit stop was behind Lando again. Ricciardo was well clear of that even .

    It was great to see a Third team challenge them and over come them, I dont believe the accident would have changed the Outcome . Its a pity it didnt happen earlier in the season and Maybe Mclaren might have gone for more. Hopefully they can pull it off again before the end of the season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Worth watching this from Scott Mansell. I don't always agree with him, but his assessments of incidents tend to be very good and very analytical.

    FWIW he has it down as a racing incident, no single driver at fault.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,268 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    The Mclarens are fast they use the merc engine and yes Lewis should have been able to get passed Lando quicker. Bottas had a good drive, nobody is saying he didn’t. I just think he should be expected to pass the Astons and Alpines etc. They are slower.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,029 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    ...



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,876 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Rossi IRL


    Could a reason be that Hamilton was on the slowest tyre compound? Maybe that played a part in him not getting by the McLaren until the McLaren tyres went.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,212 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,547 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yes. And its a very hard track to overtake. There is a perception that it's fast, low downforce and east to overtake. But the reality was very different this weekend. Hamilton clearly faster then Norris, but couldnt/didn't overtake for ages in the race and not at all in the sprint.

    I don't think anyone has suggested that Ric was the fastest car on track yesterday but nobody could overtake him so he won.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    They were both on the soft compound for the first 18 laps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    accurate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,547 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    No they weren't. Mclaren took a gamble on the softs but Mercedes and most of the gris were on mediums.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Was it not all bar Merc starting on the mediums?!? With HAM on hards?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    McLaren went with softs for the sprint race, but in the GP they were on mediums like most of the grid. The Mercedes were on hards.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,659 ✭✭✭quokula


    So your answer is no, you can't dispute any of the facts, so you've chosen to talk about something else entirely unrelated instead. I've put you on ignore because there's no point wasting time on this sort of nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Just so your all aware, the first 18 laps I refer to were on Saturday, and yes Hamilton and most of the field were on mediums with the McLarens on softs. 😎

    I was waiting for someone to fall into my trap. 😈



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,547 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    In the sprint almost all were on mediums. Mclarens were on softs.

    And in the race almost all were on the hard but McLaren were on mediums. So the Hamilton was always on a step harder tyre than norris while they were actually on track together.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I can’t remember the sprint but in the race the top 16 started on medium except Ham who was the only one on hards! Still a step harder but he was the exception not the rule!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,292 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    This lad predicted it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,547 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yes you're right. Most started on mediums but Hamilton was one of the few on hards. So his tyres were away always a step harder than Noris. If he couldn't overtake in the first stint, he was banking on having having softer tyre at the end and overtaking with either the overcut or on track with softer tyres at the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    He hates Hamilton and the comments he makes - not just about this incident - are always part of an agenda designed to undermine opponents and are devised by the puppeteer pulling his strings, Flavio Briatore. He's been doing it his entire career. At this stage I wish he would retire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    I used to hate Damon Hill with a passion when he raced, just blind hate, in later years I read his book and had completely realised I was just been biased as I saw him as the "enemy", like the derby rivals in football, but of late I realise I may have been right the first time. Lewis Hamilton could run over his wife and he would call it a racing incident. Couple that with a recent tweet he said about Schumacher, he is just a bitter man. I felt sorry for him, growing up the way he did and then when he was at his racing peak, he had to emerge from Schumacher's shadow. Now I am sick of listening to him. I cannot wait for next season when Hamilton, Russell and Norris are banging wheels and Hill, Di Resta (who I am surprised is so bad) and Herbert are doing cartwheels not to say any of them are at fault.

    When I first saw the accident I thought Max was 100% to blame but subsequent views it was 50/50, both equally could avoided it. Delighted McLaren got the win and Bottas had a great drive. Still don't understand why Perez didn't let the Ferrari retake the place. I watched both F2 races, which were great, and they had plenty of foreshadowing to the F1 race, with overtakes, accidents and penalties. Definitely going to try my best to watch the rest of F2 season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 739 ✭✭✭barryribs


    fActS!

    I can't believe "neutrals" have been crying for so long that lewis has been walking to championships and want max to do the exact same. Sunday, like Silverstone, was a racing incident, neither driver should have been punished. It's racing, accidents happen, let them race and let them earn their championship



  • Advertisement
Advertisement