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F1 2021 Round 14: Monza

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,461 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    Shame Rosberg wasn’t with Sky this weekend.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    Well no, he had nowhere to go except off the track, Lewis had a ton of room on his outside and the rules are pretty explicit that he should have left a car’s width, which he didn’t. Nothing in the rules say it’s the duty of the overtaking car to drive off the circuit in the event that the defending car breaks the rules and turns into you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Put it this way, and this is just how I see it! Take your pic and roll it back a few frames… where is max to go? Go right and he’s into Lewis, go left and he’s into the same sausages he hits anyway and still gets launched…. My view is it was a reaching incident and a 3 place penalty says to me that the FIA need to be seen to do something! RB we’re going to be doing the engine change in Sochi anyway so the pen doesn’t really have an impact and everyone walks away happy.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 11,556 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    The gap was there and Max was entitled to go for it - as Brundle himself said. Hamilton knew he was there and closed the door. They are both equally to blame, except in the eyes of the stewards unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,789 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Some people think Verstappen should have pressed the invisibility button so Hamilton could drive through him happily.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    But when is an overtake attempt a kamikaze dive down the inside on a corner? Look, there's not a driver alive that doesn't turn in there when they are clearly ahead and your opponent is off the track. Max should have bailed like Lewis on the first lap but decided to stick it down the inside regardless.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Yeah, it was a fine line alright. I don't buy into the theory that Max took him out on purpose. But as the driver coming from behind he has to make a split second decision to either stick it in and hope for the best or take the sensible approach and bail a little earlier. A 3 place penalty is about as weak as they could have gone IMO and shows there wasn't a whole lot in it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Pretty much my view! I’d have been happier with no pen but it won’t have a huge impact if he takes the expected engine change



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,369 ✭✭✭Rossi IRL


    I knew he would get a penalty as soon as I heard Horner call it a racing incident.


    Horner usually blames mercedes for everything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Brian CivilEng


    Is it just me or did the sausage kerb turn this from a simple racing incident to something more serious. It seems to be what launched Max in the air.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭BikeRacer


    Thought the same thing when the majority here said racing incident.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    For me it's a bit of both. There was a gap that Max 100% knew was going to disappear before he got through it. He's made a career from sticking his nose down the inside like that. Likewise, if you're in Hamiltons seat and you see the person behind you off the track and behind you then you can be 100% sure he's going to turn into that corner.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,104 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    Yeah I think Ted said something along those lines earlier today, was asking why couldn’t they have been normal kerb’s! (Or is it curb?!? We’ll never know)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭kksaints


    I'd agree, there should be an investigation into that. I'd have said it was a racing incident but a 3 place grid penalty is probably a similar enough penalty to what Hamilton got in Silverstone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,789 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    They put in the sausage kerb because the normal kerbs were being completely ignored and having no effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,265 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Well done Bottas on a great weekend from start to finish. Very little praise for him here, but that's normal enough.

    I can't believe the Max penalty. For me, if anything, Lewis was slightly more to blame. Max was well up beside him (the rule is his front axle to be ahead of Lewis' rear, right?), his front axle was just behind Lewis's front axle, the gap was there, but then Lewis closed him off to clip the apex of T2. I've taken a few stills to illustrate my point:

    1: Max outbreaks Lewis into T1 and gets up into a good position, slightly behind Lewis.

    2: Into T2 the gap is there. The right lock that Max has on in the still (and the one posted earlier) has been on since T1 and was not done deliberately, as seemed to be implied by that earlier poster.

    3: Lewis turns left to cut off Max, who also puts on full left lock to take the apex.

    4: Nothing can be done at this stage. Bad luck that the rear tyres collided, but had Lewis been further right they would not have done and both drivers would have most likely continued. Just look at T1 on the first lap to a line of cars taking T1 and T2 2 abreast and not colliding (last still).

    image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Both Red Bull drivers were too stubborn for their own good when it came to chicanes this weekend. I think they will still be happy enough though having increased the gap in the drivers championship at a track where Mercedes should have been stronger.

    Bottas will help will win Mercedes win the constructors the way things are going. It would not surprise me if he actually won the next race in Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,709 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    If be was correcting an oversteer caused by loss of grip at the back, then he would have to steer right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Another points finish for Williams and Russell too. Hardly got a mention. Good to see the team improving this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,324 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    Untitled Image

    ...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    That poster would be me and I didn't say he turned in deliberately. What I said was that there is no good reason to be still turning right that deep into the corner with a car outside you and closing the gap. Max came in too hot to T1 and was always going to run wide going into the entrance of T2. Even if Hamilton left a car width Max was in no position to take that apex and would have pushed into him one way or another.

    It's a racing incident mixed with some hotheadness by Max.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Think it's clear he overcooked T1 and was struggling big time to keep it between the white lines.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,265 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Well you said that that onboard would be the key reason for the stewards to give the penalty. He was still coming out of T1 at that stage. A couple of frames later he had left lock on, as I showed in my stills. Here's the clip.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭barryribs


    Why should Hamilton have to back out every single time they are racing? Imola, Spain, lap 1 today, off the top of my head. Every single time he's either had the option of backing out, going off track or colliding with Max. Red Bull seem to be endowed with some devine right that both cars can consistently force other cars off track. When your team boss is saying something like "Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence." then what do Red Bull expect



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭Zookey123


    Great go and watch something else. Don't need anymore toxic fanboys anyways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    He didn't back out in Silverstone. Got a piddly penalty that he had practically wiped out by the time he was forced to take it and won the race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,142 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I said it 'may' have been why the steward's took the line they did. I'd also say he's well out of T1 and already at the entrance of T2 in the frame I posted. Look at where they are positioned in the frame I posted. That's nowhere near T1.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭barryribs


    Which was a BS penalty, the same as the 3 place penalty Max has been given. Both minimal for racing incidents. Now tell me the difference between what Hamilton did at turn 4/5 on lap one and what Max did at turn one



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭lolie


    Delighted for the Honey badger to finally get another win, hopefully many more to come.

    For Bottas credit where it's due he drove brilliantly all weekend. Like a man fighting to keep his drive, only problem is it came the weekend after he lost his drive so it must be bitter sweet.

    As for the crash I'm all for Max winning this year but cant see how people think Hamilton is at fault.

    It looked like a racing incident and thankfully Hamilton came away uninjured but ultimately it was Max bouncing off the kerb that caused the collision that took them both out of the race so a penalty is justified.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Really surprised the stewards decided Max was more at fault, but it is what it is. Fully expect a new Verstappen PU next race, possibly Hamilton too.



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