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Too many people would have to keep it a secret...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    That is entirely subjective.

    If you look at conspiracists in this very thread, the moon landing deniers say they are the 'reasonable' ones and call the flat earthers crazy. The antivax conspiracists say they are the 'reasonable' ones, and call the moon landing deniers crazy. The 9/11 conspiracists say they are the 'reasonable' ones, and call the antivaxxers crazy.


    The single one, reliable way to identify an antivax conspiracist is that they all say: "I'm not an antivaxxer, BUT.."


    The term 'conspiracy theorist' describes a person who believes in conspiracy theories, regardless of how 'realistic' the conspiracy theories are. So the term is actually well chosen - it is not supposed to imply the subjective 'truthfulness' of different conspiracy theories, or take sides in the infighting of the different factions of conspiracists.





  • I mean, this post literally asks why a government would want to kill its own citizens under false pretences...



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,786 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Context is important.

    People use sweeping generalisations about history to justify anything, e.g. "Governments have lied to people before" to validate a belief that the government is lying about the space program.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Yes, and do you have any response to the question in relation to any of the conspiracy theorys being discussed?

    Or how you'd keep such a plan to kill thousands in a fake terrorist attack, or millions in a fake pandemic, secret and not have any leaks from those involved or any legitimate 3rd party discovering the plan?





  • I mean, I've answered every conspiracy theory asked of me so far...



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  • I agree, context is key.

    But people pretending that governments (particularly US) don't behave wantonly is a loada bollocks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No you didn't. You quoted a person asking for the specific motive behind why they wanted to kill people.

    This is not denying that they would.

    That person also clarified this to you directly.


    So again, no one here holds the position you are describing.





  • And I replied with plenty of motive.

    Governments willingly killing citizens is the weakests anti-conspiracy of them all.

    If you want me to run through every US government motive since WW2, I am happy to.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But again, you are pretending that the poster holds that the government wouldn't want to kill people if it benefits them.

    This isn't true.

    No one here holds this position.

    You are doing a lot of stretching and gymnastics to try and pretend they do. You should stop doing that.





  • The poster said exactly that.

    If they want to clarify their position, I am happy to listen.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    No, they didn't.

    Not sure why you're pretending that they did now. Very bizarre.

    It was explained to you that they were asking for a specific motivation and they were not denying that the government would be willing to kill people.


    No one holds the position you are claiming. Please stop pretending they do. It's very silly and making you look ridiculous.





  • The fact that you can't refute my position makes you look silly.

    I've answered all questions of me so far.

    I'm happy to answer any further questions.

    You're the one that looks silly.

    Keep asking questions. I'm here.

    You can't cope with someone that isn't a Trump supporter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But your position is simply not true. No one here believe that conspiracies don't happen because the government would be unwilling to cause harm.

    The point everyone, including the person you seem determined to misrepresent, is making is that conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists rarely provide any rational motivation for the conspiracies.

    We all fully accept that the US government will lie, steal and murder. But none of us can imagine why the US government would want to fake all space flight as per the OPs conspiracy theory. Doing so just for the sake of lying stealing and murdering does not make for a rational motivation.

    Can you explain why the US government would want to fake the whole space program?

    If you can't and don't believe this conspiracy would it be then fair to accuse you of believing and saying that the US doesn't lie?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No you didn't.


    You have lied 100% about what I was asking of you. Either that or you have zero understanding of the English language.

    We're trying to make the questions as simple for you as possible.


    Why would the US government want to fake a terrorist attack on their own people killing thousands? Why would they want to fake a global pandemic killing millions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So now that the singular example of a person you believe holds the position you claim has specifically told you they don't hold that position, could you please acknowledge that you claim was wrong?

    It would be a very Trump Supporterish thing to do to ignore this and not withdraw your false accusations.





  • Every post-war US president should be before The Hague.

    Nothing to do with COVID-19.

    At no point have I suggested the US government, or any other government faked a global pandemic.

    COVID is a serious virus.

    I am pro-vaccine.

    I am pro-vaccine mandate.

    I am double vaccinated and will get the third jab.

    America literally killed 58,000 Americans in Vietnam. America literally killed 400 black men with their Tuskegee Study. America literally killed 4,500 American military personnel in Iraq under totally false pretences.

    I can carry on.

    If Boards wants to have one of their famous debates. I am happy to show my face live and have a debate with you or anyone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Sorry, you've dodged all of my points. How very trumpian.

    Here they are again for your convenience. Please address them now.

    Can you explain why the US government would want to fake the whole space program?

    If you can't and don't believe this conspiracy would it be then fair to accuse you of believing and saying that the US doesn't lie?


    So now that the singular example of a person you believe holds the position you claim has specifically told you they don't hold that position, could you please acknowledge that you claim was wrong?


    No need to challenge people to a debate. Just answer those questions directly and concisely.

    Or alternatively, if you can't or are unwilling to answer these questions about your position that you invited, simply say so and explain why.


    Or you could keep dodging and crying and behaving like a trump supporter.





  • Why are you asking me about the space programme when I've already stated I believe in the space programme?

    Are you confusing me with someone else?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Nobody is questioning that those things happened. This forum is for the discussion of conspiracy theories, those topics probably belong in the politics forum.

    The topics being discussed here are the likes of faking terrorist attacks, faking space programs and faking pandemics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    But I'm not asking you about the space program. I'm asking if you can imagine a hypothetical reason for why they would want to fake the program.

    If you can't, then I'm asking if it would be then logical and fair for people to accuse you of denying that the US government is capable and willing to lie.


    It's a very simple question I've asked you 3 times now.

    You said that you would answer any questions but to you, yet you keep dodging this one and the others I've asked you.

    It's very much like what Trumpists do.


    And again, for your convienence here is the other question you are dodging:

    So now that the singular example of a person you believe holds the position you claim has specifically told you they don't hold that position, could you please acknowledge that you claim was wrong?

    Please answer them directly now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    6 people in government knew about MKultra while it was running..



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    And how many people would need to be involved in a plan to fake a terrorist attack which killed thousands? Or fake the space program? Or fake a global pandemic?


    All without getting noticed by anyone else on the planet?

    This is not the same as the military testing LSD on psychiatric patients which nobody outside was aware of at the time or had any reason to question.





  • Take every other post/comment out of all context in this thread.

    Ask me questions.

    What clarification do you need?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I did ask you questions. You keep ignoring them.

    Can you explain why the US government would want to fake the whole space program?

    If you can't and don't believe this conspiracy would it be then fair to accuse you of believing and saying that the US doesn't lie?


    So now that the singular example of a person you believe holds the position you claim has specifically told you they don't hold that position, could you please acknowledge that you claim was wrong?

    You keep avoiding them. I cannot make them clearer. If you ignore them again I will take it that you are doing so because you don't want to answer them honestly and directly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also, again, another example of a conspiracy theory that was revealed by the government itself and covered by the mainstream media.

    If they can't keep a conspiracy of 6 people under wraps, how could they do it with ones that involve thousands or millions?





  • If anyone can translate the above, I'm happy to answer.

    If you're drunk/high, I hope you've have an enjoyable night.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,446 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    as others have pointed out, there's something quite glaringly different - both qualitatively and quantitatively - between programs which are designed to operate in secret by their very nature, and ones supposedly operating quite deliberately in the glare of the media and the public eye.

    take space travel - for example, if the russians had faked gargarin's first space flight, why would the americans have kept schtum about it?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭ohnohedidnt


    The US government get too much credit in my opinion. They have a track record of a total lack of forward thinking and disastrous policy decisions. I don't believe they are morally or ethically above faking 9/11, because we know from Operation Northwoods that they considered similar things before. But, I don't know how anybody believes they are capable of pulling it off. The complexity of faking 9/11 and keeping it quiet is astronomical compared to many far simpler tasks that they regularly make an absolute balls off. An operation like the Bay of Pigs is far less complicated than 9/11 would be. They could pull off faking 9/11?, but couldn't manage to plant an auld WMD under Saddams bed? They couldn't even make Monica's dress disappear?

    Then there's things that I'm sure they would love to cover up with are out in open now, like MK Ultra, The Guatemala Syphilis Experiments, The Gulf Of Tonkin false flag, The contaminated polio vaccines, The Tuskegee Syphillis study. If the were truly capable of covering up 9/11, then surely these would never have seen the light of day either.

    Certain aspects of the space program are clearly faked, like some videos and photos, which tarnishes everything and leads to conspiracy theories, but it is, or at least was verifiable, that man made objects were on the moon. I've not seen any explanation for why Russia, who also spent billions on the space race would not call BS on the US if it was faked, they had the technology to prove it was faked, and more motivation that anybody to prove it was faked, yet never even suggested it?



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