Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

What a year for the Protestant/Unionist enclave:

Unionist majority gone,

Protestant majority gone,

SF largest party in the North,

SF largest party in the South,

Fewer than 35% in the north self-identifying as British,

Census results on the way,

Irish Sea goods border,

All Ireland trade rapidly growing,

Britain shrinking economically and influentially,

EU resurgent.

A most unhappy 100 year anniversary.

Yes, it's not dissimilar. The Scottish unionists are not far behind either.

I think we already know exactly how seriously the UK government takes the DUP and its concerns.

The DUP knows this too; hence the hissy fit.

But this is a situation that calls for more than a hissy fit. The DUP finds themselves placing all their faith and hope in NI's union with a partners that, literally, does not care about them or about the union with them. That's a terribly vulnerable position to be in, and the DUP (or, if they won't do it, another unionist party with a bit more cop-on) needs to think a bit less about performative outrage and a bit more about how to strengthen the union. A stance which amounts in effect to a demand for a hard border with the Republic is going to increase British disdain for the unionist position, not alleviate it.

You fo realise that it wasn't Barnier making the decisions, he was simply carrying the will of the EU?

And, he wasn't charged with renegotiation of the EU rules. Whether he personally agreed with them or not was irrelevant. UK wanted special treatment, he laid out their real options.

Now, he, and France, as members of the EU are of course free to put forward any changes they wish. Up is up to them to convince the others to accept the change.

UK always had this option of course.

You have to cut Rob some slack. He is extensively exposed to the UK Brexiter press and, over time, it is hard not to be affected by the tide of lies that they systematically serve up.

Much of the Brexiter commentary during the Brexit negotiation presented the EU position as one dictated by Barnier — Barnier was intransigent; Barnier was inflexible; Barnier was punishing the UK for brexiting; etc. Just as all the UK's problems were the fault of "Teresa the Remainer" and in no way the outcome of the lies and contradictions of the Brexit campaign, so all the objectionable bits of the EU's position were the responsibility of Barnier and his vindictive attitude to the UK. Rob may have believed this because he was never exposed to any counter-narrative.

The reality, of course, was that the EU's negotiating position and objectives were decided by the member state governments, acting through the Council of Ministers in what they perceived to be their own interests and those of the Union. Barnier's job was to negotiate with the UK within the constraints, and to achieve the objectives, set by the Council of Ministers. Nobody ever asked him whether those objectives were the ones he personally would have adopted, if it had been his business to adopt them. Why would they?

Barnier's personal political position and values are an open book - or, rather, several open books. He was active in French politics for many years, having been a deputy in the National Assembly from 1978 to 1993, and a cabinet minister for several terms in a variety of portfolios between 1993 and 2005. In the fashion of French politicians, he is the author of a number of books in which he expounds his political beliefs and values. He has always been a Gaullist, which means being right of centre, republican, pragmatic, patriotic and assertive of French national sovereignty with the EU. With his beliefs and values, in the UK he would certainly have been a Tory.

The views he is now expressing probably tack a bit to the right of the Gaullist spectrum, since he is trying to present himself as a candidate who could, for the Republicans, draw votes away from far right. The notion that he was hypocritical for not expressing the same views when he was TF50 Chief Negotiator is just silly, but Rob's views are conditioned by a media culture that systematically cultivates silliness.

You need a new dictionary if you think that is "hypocrisy"

They never rpopose an alternative or anything proactive. Their entire political philosphy for the better part of a decade has just been nagativity and to be against things. It worked for a good while but the scales are beginning to fall from their voters eyes as they see they have achieved literally nothing after being dealt a royal flush straight from the deck and if anything they have made things worse and not just for "themuns" but for everyone in NI.

I've posted this before and I think it still holds true.

The DUP and other hard line NI Unionists should reflect of the writings of the Late Conor Cruise O'Brien. He wrote, more or less, that the Unionists need to realise that their last battle will not be with the Irish Nationalists but with the English Nationalists.

And, if they view CCO'B as just another commentator, maybe the next time they past the statute of Carson outside Stormont, they should reflect on what he said about the Tories.

I can't remember who said, more or less these words after the signing of the GFA, but it was along the lines of:

the Unionists are too stupid to realise they won and the Nationalists are too clever to admit they lost

And so it goes with the NIP, access to both the GB and EU markets.

What's the line again about history repeating itself, first as a tragedy and second as a farce.

In my view if they collapse Stormont no one will really care. There will be concerned statements alright, but current Tory party? I don't think so.