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M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

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  • Options
    #602
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    josip wrote: »
    Thanks, but not displaying for me in either Firefox or Chrome.

    Reason is you have to click a check box to say you adhere to the rules of viewing. The link is for after that stage so probably doesn't recognise your computer. Not a very technical explanation but hope that makes sense.

    http://193.178.30.116/idocswebDPSS/copyright.aspx?catalog=planning&id=18382


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    #603
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    http://193.178.30.116/idocswebDPSS/copyright.aspx?catalog=planning&id=18382


  • Options
    #604
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,724 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Anyone else seeing only this when they click the plans or map links?
    I've ticked the box (tx Pronudo) and Ctrl F5ed just in case


    0aoxP3j.png


    Looks like the site was designed by the County Manager's son or daughter for summer work experience.


  • Options
    #605
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The way i got to it was, clicked plastik's link, click scanned documents, click check box, then a list of all documents comes up. One says road plans or similar but has 5 pages in jpeg format. That seems to be the one with the most detail.


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    #606
    Thud
    Registered Users Posts: 2,555 ✭✭✭Thud


    So is it essentially a little concrete curb with the cones on it.
    why is it taking 9months?


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    #607
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Thud wrote: »
    So is it essentially a little concrete curb with the cones on it.
    why is it taking 9months?

    This is Ireland, have you seen how long the new junction at near Cabinteely is taking?


  • Options
    #608
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,438 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Thud wrote: »
    So is it essentially a little concrete curb with the cones on it.
    why is it taking 9months?
    It's a bit more than that. There's a separate lane being added from just after the Bray South southbound on ramp all the way to the garage. The "little concrete curb" will be between this new lane and the existing 2 lanes.


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    #609
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    Kian Fast Photography wrote: »
    This is Ireland, have you seen how long the new junction at near Cabinteely is taking?

    But there's no urgency for that to be opened since the housing its going to serve hasn't been built yet


  • Options
    #610
    Reati
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭Reati


    Kian Fast Photography wrote: »
    This is Ireland...

    It is!! And IIRC didn't they resurface most of that section road last year on the N11 southbound?


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    #611
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Reati wrote: »
    It is!! And IIRC didn't they resurface most of that section road last year on the N11 southbound?

    They did, I remember sitting in the traffic.


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    #612
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Kian Fast Photography wrote: »
    They did, I remember sitting in the traffic.

    I remember sitting in traffic the last time they widened the Glen. The Irish times called it the Road from Hell!
    It is just one of the many bizarre factors that has made the Co Wicklow project the most delayed and over-budget road scheme in Ireland. On Thursday the road should finally be fully open, nearly a year after its final estimated completion date and at nearly double the original projected cost. Its construction has caused untold misery, delaying commuters for up to an hour as they crawled through the five and a half kilometre site, south of Bray

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/road-from-hell-1.385011


  • Options
    #613
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    schmittel wrote: »
    I remember sitting in traffic the last time they widened the Glen. The Irish times called it the Road from Hell!



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/road-from-hell-1.385011

    If they choose the red route they better make sure they have all their t's crossed and i's dotted this time around. Going by the compliants on n7 widening thread it will need to be well planned and thought out to ensure it gets delivered in a quick and efficient manner.


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    #614
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    schmittel wrote: »
    I remember sitting in traffic the last time they widened the Glen. The Irish times called it the Road from Hell!



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/road-from-hell-1.385011

    So do I, and I don't think I could do it again. I would strongly consider quitting my job if the red route gets the go ahead. We would be looking at 3 or 4 years of hell.


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    #615
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭hometruths


    prunudo wrote: »
    If they choose the red route they better make sure they have all their t's crossed and i's dotted this time around. Going by the compliants on n7 widening thread it will need to be well planned and thought out to ensure it gets delivered in a quick and efficient manner.

    For me the big problem i have with them choosing the red route is that even if they have all their t's crossed and i's dotted, it will still never get delivered in a quick and efficient manner.

    All routes will get challenged, but the red is the one that a) will be hardest to defend and b) take longest to defend, and runs the highest risk that the challenges will ultimately be successful and they are back at square one in ten years time.

    Assuming they manage to see off the challenges, the traffic problem will just be getting worse in all the time it takes for them to get planning.

    And then when eventually they start, they will be building the road in the middle of all the traffic, restricting the flow even further.

    It's madness!

    Hopefully they will learn the lessons of the past...
    Minister for Transport, Seamus Brennan, who has ordered an independent review of the reasons for the time and budget overruns, says lessons have already been learned.

    "I think we've shown that you're better to build a fresh road," he says. "It's clearly much more expensive to upgrade an existing one."

    The final cost of the road, at almost €15 million a kilometre, is comparable with that of a motorway, which costs between €10 million and €20 million a kilometre.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/road-from-hell-1.385011


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    #616
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    schmittel wrote: »
    All routes will get challenged, but the red is the one that a) will be hardest to defend and b) take longest to defend, and runs the highest risk that the challenges will ultimately be successful and they are back at square one in ten years time.

    An offline road will almost certainly be appealed on the basis of the new road and extensive retaining structures damaging the visual amenity in a scenic location, environmental damage caused, etc. There are also plenty of wealthy people in the area to finance all manner of appeals. The online upgrade but stopping before GOTD would be the least contentious and the only way to avoid up to a decade of appeals.


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    #617
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    An offline road will almost certainly be appealed on the basis of the new road and extensive retaining structures damaging the visual amenity in a scenic location, environmental damage caused, etc. There are also plenty of wealthy people in the area to finance all manner of appeals. The online upgrade but stopping before GOTD would be the least contentious and the only way to avoid up to a decade of appeals.

    If you're suggesting they might choose to widen the road either side of the GOTD but do nothing in the GOTD itself, then that is surely a pointless exercise because it will not solve any of the congestion or safety problems specific to that stretch.

    I can't see them electing for that solution. If they choose to upgrade the red road some amount of widening in the GOTD would be inevitable I think.


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    #618
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Don't underestimate the amount of people who will come out of the woodwork (pardon the pun) if they choose to chop down more of the Glen of the Downs. Saying that, every route is going to be contentious.


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    #619
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,724 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Instead of widening the Glen of the Downs they should make a double decker motorway.
    4 lanes in both directions baby.


  • Options
    #620
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    josip wrote: »
    Instead of widening the Glen of the Downs they should make a double decker motorway.
    4 lanes in both directions baby.

    With a roof on top so it doesn't impact on the scenery.

    Joking aside though and it be a first in Ireland I think, a cut and cover option on parts of the Cyan route (particularly the deep cutting around Downs hill) would reduce the impact on the landscape.


  • Options
    #621
    Reati
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭Reati


    prunudo wrote: »
    Don't underestimate the amount of people who will come out of the woodwork (pardon the pun) if they choose to chop down more of the Glen of the Downs

    The leader of the Green Party has already said he'll be living in the trees (again, he did last time)....


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    #622
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Reati wrote: »
    The leader of the Green Party has already said he'll be living in the trees (again, he did last time)....

    Absolutely full of nuts that green party they threw us under the bus and the reversed back over us...

    What a bunch of numpties.


  • Options
    #623
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    schmittel wrote: »
    If you're suggesting they might choose to widen the road either side of the GOTD but do nothing in the GOTD itself, then that is surely a pointless exercise because it will not solve any of the congestion or safety problems specific to that stretch.

    I can't see them electing for that solution. If they choose to upgrade the red road some amount of widening in the GOTD would be inevitable I think.

    The road would only be widened north of GOTD. I am saying that that would be the least contentious proposal and the one with a significantly greater chance of happening, anything else will be fought tooth and nail.


  • Options
    #624
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The road would only be widened north of GOTD. I am saying that that would be the least contentious proposal and the one with a significantly greater chance of happening, anything else will be fought tooth and nail.

    It would be pointless, the main problem area is between the Greystones exit and the Glenview. Kilmac village is also a bottleneck, but not as bad as the glen.


  • Options
    #625
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Kian Fast Photography wrote: »
    It would be pointless, the main problem area is between the Greystones exit and the Glenview. Kilmac village is also a bottleneck, but not as bad as the glen.

    That depends on what the point is. It would remove the safety issues on the road. If the intention is to eliminate congestion , a new road will take a decade to open so not much good to anyone now and even then it will only attract more traffic. Bus lanes are the only thing that can be done to address congestion in a reasonable period of time.


  • Options
    #626
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,193 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Will be interesting to see if it becomes an election issue on the doorsteps. Depending on route choice, subsequent litigation and any down turn in the economy I can't see any major work being completed within a decade either.
    But at the same time there doesn't seem to be any urgency for short term solutions. The only urgency seems to be to grant more and more housing without a thought for where or how the new residents get to work.


  • Options
    #627
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    prunudo wrote: »
    Will be interesting to see if it becomes an election issue on the doorsteps. Depending on route choice, subsequent litigation and any down turn in the economy I can't see any major work being completed within a decade either.

    Well there is little chanceof much happening within the life of the next government so anyone trying to make it into an election issue is wasting their breath. Bus lanes on the N11 is about the only thing realistically achievable.

    Most likely, the next government will just let the consultants get on with it and let the legal challenges play out knowing that they are only on the hook for relatively small consultant costs. If the project survives all the legal challenges, it would be up to the following government to decide if they will sign off on the likely very large construction costs.


  • Options
    #628
    recyclops
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭recyclops


    They should get round to cleaning up the ropes, plastic and camps they left behind from the last protest before starting another.


  • Options
    #629
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Well there is little chanceof much happening within the life of the next government so anyone trying to make it into an election issue is wasting their breath. Bus lanes on the N11 is about the only thing realistically achievable.

    Most likely, the next government will just let the consultants get on with it and let the legal challenges play out knowing that they are only on the hook for relatively small consultant costs. If the project survives all the legal challenges, it would be up to the following government to decide if they will sign off on the likely very large construction costs.

    Exactly why infrastructure spending needs to be ring-fenced like in France! Takes the politics out of it...


  • Options
    #630
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    recyclops wrote: »
    They should get round to cleaning up the ropes, plastic and camps they left behind from the last protest before starting another.

    But that would mean they were being green and ecologically sensitive...:mad:


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    #631
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    That depends on what the point is. It would remove the safety issues on the road. If the intention is to eliminate congestion , a new road will take a decade to open so not much good to anyone now and even then it will only attract more traffic. Bus lanes are the only thing that can be done to address congestion in a reasonable period of time.

    I don't think the GOTD is currently wide enough to incorporate a bus lane either side, so if they have to widen the road in the glen to add a bus lane, that will get tied up in the courts for a decade as well.


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