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Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I think Coveney has pulled back since his leadership challenge and the initial mess of this has pushed him even further back. In 2023 he'll be reshuffled and by the next election he'll be into his early fifties. Will he still harbour leadership aims then, especially with the two kids coming into the frame, or just remain a good servant of the party? The next election should see another FG or scenario and if they get in again and Leo stays on, Coveney will be touching 60 on the other side of it. At that point it's probably over to the young bucks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    She texted him about it, he didn't know what she was talking about, so he asked Coveney, so Coveney told him what it was all about, on July 19, the same date that Varadkar says he became aware of what it was.

    There is no lie there. You guys really need to get Leo out of your heads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    She texted Varadkar about an Envoy job she was waiting to hear from Coveney about. She even gave the title. Now while you might try say Varadkar didn't know details, he was informed by text, by Zappone that she was waiting to hear about an envoy job from Coveney.

    Varadkar knew she was waiting to hear about an envoy job from Coveney. He said he first heard about the job days later. You are arguing black is white here and turning to personal digs and insults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She asked had he heard anything about 'her appointment'.

    Varadkar says 'nope', he hasn't heard anything.

    That does not for a second mean 'he didn't know what she was talking about'.

    It just means he didn't know anything about the status of 'her appointment'.

    If she hadn't already been given the job she wouldn't be referring to it that way.

    If it tumbles out, in the hapless way the truth about this has so far, that the party was, in fact, a celebration of that appointment Leo will be deeper in the dooda than he already is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    What did she text him? If he read it, he certainly responded to it, he then knew she was waiting to hear about a freedom of expression envoy position off Coveney. He knew as of the text, (although I'm confident he knew all about it prior to that, which is why she texted him regarding it).

    You'll be saying he didn't know it was Zappone next.

    We are talking about Varadkar so much to answer your false and ridiculous claims that he wasn't aware. Aside from being unbelievable you are making Varadkar out to be of very low intelligence.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Would also be good to find out what the 'speech' was about. She was very keen Varadkar was there to hear and says she would delay until he arrived.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Did you even read the text exchange? She asked him did he know anything about the job, he said nope, he went off and texted Coveney asking what was it, Coveney came back and told him what it was. That is therefore the date on which he knew what she was talking about.

    Happens all the time with me. Somebody asks me do I know anything about such a proposal/initiative. I say nope, go and ask about it, then when I am told about it, that is when I know about it.

    Martin described some of this stuff as overdramatic and melodrama. He was understating the level of hyperbole of some.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    You saw me quote it so enough of the personalised slights thank you.

    He knew A) there was a freedom of expression Envoy job Zappone was asking about. B) He knew Coveney was involved.

    He claimed the first he heard about it was days later. He lied.

    You need to read the texts. She didn't ask him had he heard anything about the job. She wanted to know had he heard from Coveney about the job. I can see the goal posts getting shifted to suit the narrative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    did he know anything about the job,


    No she didn't, she asked him had he 'heard anything about her appointment'.

    That was answered by COveney, he updated what the status of 'her appointment' was. The 'anything' she was looking for off Varadkar.

    Had he been asked what you say...his next question would have been 'what job?' or 'I didn't know you'd got that job, congratulations'. etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Really lads, your posts are getting even more disingenuous than ever. Did you read the texts?

    "I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment.......Have you heard anything?"

    You both left that bit in bold out to create another false narrative. The obvious answer to that if he knew nothing about the appointment was "Nope". Guess what, that is exactly what he answered.

    The obvious next action if he knew nothing about the appointment was to ask Coveney about it. Guess what, that is exactly what he did.

    The webs you weave in your conspiracy theories fall away with simple examination using Occam's Razor.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    I'm pretty sure the Merrion knees up was to celebrate her upcoming UN envoy job and she was checking to make sure it was still a go before the event.

    We know both Varadkar and Coveney lied. We know Zappone lobbied and we know Varadkar released texts, likely without the permission of the others to undermine Coveney. Which explains why Flanagan also stuck the knife in.


    #notanormalparty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Pivot again blanch?

    At least you are now using her actual words.

    She was expecting to be updated by Coveney with further details, as he outlined later to Varadkar.

    His natural reply to that, if he 'knew nothing' would be 'I didn't know you had gotten an appointment, congratulations'. But he didn't say that, he just said 'nope' and the conversation moved on to the 'reminder' about the party, showing they had previous contact in some way, either by text or email or post.

    These are friends having a text session.

    Stop trying to sledgehammer something into this exchange that simply isn't there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    That is quite a delusional post in fairness. It bears no relation to the existing record of what actually happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    It marries well with the facts. We know she texted Varadkar about her appointment. We know he was at the event. We know she checked on the status of her appointment before it. All I'm wondering is was it to celebrate the appointment. Hardly bearing no relation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    She was meeting the civil servant to finalise the contact on the Wednesday. Coincidentally she was having a party for 50 people that evening.

    Not connected, no sir! 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    If Leo did not know anything about it, surely he would said What appointment?



  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'd have to assume,the rather large narcisstic side to varadkar,has never fully gotton over coveney wiping floor with him in leadership challenge among ordinary party members


    Kind of hard for FG to expect anyone,only absolute loyalists, to vote for em,sure they dont even like each other



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    For the love of baby jebus...do you accept from that text he knew from that point that there was an envoy job?

    He claimed the first he heard was days later, which was a lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The job he asked Coveney about the next day?

    Nah. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I think Coveney still wants the top job but yeah would agree that this latest episode has damaged him badly, he had a good record up until now. If he wants it though he is going to have to move at some stage in the next 6 months, his deadline is December 2022 when the role of Taoiseach reverts back to FG so he'd want to have his ducks lined up in a row by next summer at the latest.

    The other side of it is that FG actually needs a change of leader if they want to win elections. Varadkar has proved himself useless at this and if your leader doesnt know how to win elections then the party will end up in decline. Take a look at Varadkars electoral record

    -2017, lost the leadership vote among the membership who overwhelmingly wanted Coveney 65%-35%

    -2019 lost the local elections to Fianna Fail

    -2020 lost the General Election to Sinn Fein and only got elected himself on the 5th count, i.e. even his own constituents are getting sick of him which is a very a bad signal for him nationally

    -2021 lost the DBS by election, something that was easily winnable had he put forward the right candidate, yet another cock up by Varadkar. He literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and got beaten by Ivana Bacik of all people

    So the fact of the matter is Varadkar doesnt know how to lead his party to election wins, which is kind of important when youre a party leader. If Varadkar leads FG into the next election it will go no different to the 2020 version except to return an even worse result. Mary Lou will wipe the floor with him in the debates and the campaign again just like she did last time out.

    People forget that when that 2020 election (which was held at a timing of FGs choice) they were running high in the polls (32%) but then the campaign got under way and three weeks later FG tanked and ended up on 21% while while SF surged to beat them into third place. That result is all on Varadkar and it happened because he is a useless campaigner and a useless debater under pressure.

    Nothing is going to change on that score at the next election, the main difference is that even more people than ever will be sick of the sight of him. When his own constituents dont let him top the poll while he is a sitting Taoiseach you know there is a serious underlying problem there. Sitting Taoiseachs are expected to top the poll, Enda Kenny did it, Bertie did it, Bruton did it,Albert Reynolds did, Haughey did it but Varadkar? Nope, elected on the 5th count showing that he isnt even popular in his own backyard. So if FG dont get Coveney into the leadership position then the next election for FG will be Varadkars fifth election loss in a row because losing elections is literally what he does.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Good assessment and mad to see his failures in a list like that.

    I haven't believed for a long time that he will lead into the next election. Unless FG have a FFian death wish.

    Mad too, to say it, but he could be in jail come the next election. Stranger things have happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    The complete worse thing that could happen to Varadkar is a resignation, a bruised ego and a high paying lobbying job. This is Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    There is a very clear question mark hanging over any suggestion that text was the first time Leo had heard about any of this, and it comes from the language used by Katherine Zappone, see below.


    IMG_20210903_201747.jpg


    At the very least, we know from that above, Leo knew what "next Wednesday" was about, and where it was being held, because if he didn't, his reply naturally would have been "sorry, next Wednesday what/where"?

    Come to think of it, the language in the text is almost too full of clear information, it's almost script like it's so clear and precise. If some decent journalist gets to the bottom of the merrion affair, and what the true nature of Zappones "reception" was (IE was it a celebratory party for the role she hadn't officially got at that stage) Leo might be in deeper **** than he's already in. As he probably unintentionally revealed in that text her was fully aware of the party in the Merrion

    So not only has he (your suggestion, not mine) "created an offence - GDPR wise", he might have actually hung himself out to dry by accidentally revealing actually how much he was aware of this crony appointment, and when how long he knew about it for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,676 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    Wonder how he knew?

    Maybe the text the day before would have tipped him off to the mysterious event?



    1.JPG


    .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Apologies, I used the Friday text not the Thursday one..... However this ain't your "gotcha" moment halong, jumped in two feet first again I'm afraid.

    Pay attention below. 🤣


    IMG_20210903_204847.jpg

    When I went to school, a "reminder" was a word used to remind someone about something previously discussed.

    Posted by Ha Long Bay Maybe the text the day before would have tipped him off to the mysterious event?

    maybe we need the text before this reminder one, and that might clear the whole mystery up further🤔

    .

    Measure twice, cut once halong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,676 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    He knew there was an event in the Merrion yes so what's your point? Where is the conspiracy? If you have any additional information please share it. If not its speculation and not sure that's allowed here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    We need to know if the event was a celebration of 'finalising' her appointment. It's clear the 'reminder' is evidence that there is other correspondence out there about the event that isn't being released.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    No conspiracy, just a question mark hanging over how long Leo knew about the envoy role, and the party in the Merrion hotel, and what the true nature of the party was for. We know from that text, Zappone discussed the party with Varadkar sometime before Thursday the 15thz and we know Leo gave her his intention of attendance.

    Once again (you seem to have missed this the last time I posted it) if any journalist can uncover the true nature of Zappones party (let's say for arguement sake it was a congratulatory party for a job Zappone had not officially had at this stage) well then Leo could land himself in bigger shît than he's in at the minute. (Excluding the criminal investigation he's still subject to 😉)

    Post edited by McMurphy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,676 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    It's fairly obvious from the texts it wasn't if the Tánaiste didn't even know about it when confirming he would attend the Merrion gathering.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,222 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Didn't know about the job?

    Are we back to this nonsense?

    Your friend you are close enough to, who wants to see you at an event or who 'or 😎 see you at the event and a separate time' mentions a new prestigious job and you just say 'nope'????

    Are you having a laugh Ha?

    The rational explanation was he knew what the reminder was and knew about the job but didn't know about the details (the 'anything') that were being finalised on the Wednesday.



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