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Katherine Zappone Envoy Gig

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,239 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    This is just the same handwaving and 'nothing burger' stuff pushed out when ever there is a **** up by the government.

    We saw it with Golfgate, Maria Bailey, the Leak, etc etc and now we see it being pushed out again. Tired stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    This sounds to me like FG supporters just wishing this story would go away and pretending they are above it all. You can bet your last cent that if the shoe was on the other foot they would be crying about from the rooftops.

    The funny thing is that FG can make it go away come out and be completely honest and hold up their hands and that kills the story but they can't they think they are above everyone else and can do as they like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,709 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Did they not mean it?

    Microsoft Word - New Politics.doc (thejournal.ie)

    The New Politics is designed to tackle head-on the major weaknesses in our archaic system of government, so that the huge policy mistakes of the last few years will not be repeated. It will:

    End “Crony Government” in Ireland by opening up government and giving the Dáil, for the first time in its history, real power to hold ministers and public bodies to account; and

    The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government. 

    Who decides who is the best person for public jobs now?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,709 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Don't forget Dara Murphy...FG were fine with him getting his job in Europe after ripping off the taxpayer for years.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Of these three I only immediately recognised the Bailey one. That's about as much an average voter could do, if even that. It's the big stuff they care about - currently that's housing but health will be back. My take on this is that he was completely obtuse about this, but saved by the common sense of the putative nominee. If people want to perpetually rage about this that's just fine. For some there's political capital in this, which is equally fine but it dilutes any sense of principle they might claim. Ultimately it may mean that Simon will get a quieter and smaller office in 2023.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Minister behaves stupidly is not in that document!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hadn't he already been given the job when this stuff emerged?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,239 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ??? You don't immediately recognise 'Golfgate or the Leak' controversies?

    Ok, whatever you say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    With a bit of thought yes they came back, there's been other stuff going on in the world, but I'd expect very few of your average voters to nod at that list. Those who'd still be annoyed by them probably have plenty of other reasons to have a poor opinion of them anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,239 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    So, the Tanaiste/Taoiseach gets embroiled in a lengthy controversy and ends up the centre of a still ongoing Garda Criminal investigation in which he could technically get jailed, and you have to 'give a bit of thought' to remembering that?

    I am not sure why you are implicating the general populace in this extraordinarily convenient forgetfulness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Golfgate was one of the biggest stories in the country at the time.

    A load of politicians and a supreme court judge go for a big dinner when there were lots of restrictions on the average voter.

    It lead to a minister and EU commissioner losing their jobs and calls for the supreme court judge to be sacked. Some (apparently not so) average voters I know wouldn't have felt sorry for him if he had been.

    You've got to worry about the country if the average voter can't remember that story. I thought it was better known and annoyed the average voter more than swinggate a.k.a Maria Bailey.

    Maybe they meant the average FG voter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Yes and they've had outcomes but most people move on once that happens. It might sway some voters in their choices but the big items will move them more and how good TDs are for local politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭Economics101


    If we didn't have the Covid restrictions, it may well have been the case that Varadkar and Coveney et al might have had their chats over a cups of coffee in a Ministerial office or the Dail bar, instead of conversations by text. In that case there would be nothing to see. I never thought that virtually private conversations would be subject to the full rigours of FOI.

    To be fully consistent maybe all ministers should be permanently wired up so that everything hey ever say to anyone would be subject to FOI. (Except at Cabinet meetings of course). This is all getting a bit absurd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    "I never thought that virtually private conversations would be subject to the full rigours of FOI."

    That's pretty much your very first, and fatal problem right there then so. Just because you "didn't think" govt business conducted via text was subject to FOI , is meaningless tbh. I wouldn't be sharing that lack of knowledge online either, not on a current affairs forum, if you wanted to be taken seriously.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,239 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Howlin getting in now too.

    Untitled Image




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Well if they aren't aware of golfgate I can assure you that they're even less aware of what good they did unless it's something done personally for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Well, thats most political dramas tbf but this has breaking covid guidelines, political crap like lobbying, government disregard for FOI, breaking FOI rules, a minister saying his phone was hacked, ministers throwing each other under the bus etc. There's a lot wrapped up in this particular issue outside of Zappone being given the position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    No need for the personal digs.

    Your argument that Zappone asked Varadkar had he heard about her job didn't constitute he being aware that there was a job doesn't hold water.

    I quoted from the links I posted.

    On Thursday Mr Varadkar said the first he had heard of the Zappone appointment was in a text from Mr Coveney on July 19.


    The messages begin on Friday July 16 when, Ms Zappone texted Mr Varadkar:

    “Hi Leo, from the Piglet [a Dublin bar]! I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment as Special Envoy for Human Rights and LGBTQ+ issues. Have you heard anything? If you around next Wednesday hope to meet you.”

    "Hi Leo, from the Piglet [a Dublin bar]! I was expecting to hear from Simon C about my appointment as Special Envoy for Human Rights and LGBTQ+ issues." If Varadkar is incapable of understanding this to mean that A) there's an Envoy job and B) Coveney is involved, he shouldn't be allowed out of the house alone. If that's your defence for him I suggest you re-think your strategy.

    Varadkar lied. He knew there was an Envoy position days before he claimed he did.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,239 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And Leo is playing the percentage game here, hoping Conveney's sin will be deemed bigger than his lie and therefore he survives. Otherwise known as 'throwing somebody under the bus' to save himself, something Leo has been accused of before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,771 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Wouldnt agree its not a resigning matter from what we've seen so far. Coveney tried to pull a stroke with a crony appointment on the last day Cabinet sat before the summer break, he completely blindsided his coalition partners in doing so. If Martin had any balls he would demand Coveneys head in the same way the heads of Dara Calleary and Barry Cowen were scalped. But Martin doesnt have balls, its clear he just wants the easy life.

    Whats more interesting here to me anyway is that Fine Gael are eating themselves alive. There is an internal struggle between Varadkar and Coveney which has come about because Varadkar consistently loses elections, the most recent being the DBS by elections and how he ended the political career of Coveney ally Kate o'Connell. Its clear some within FG see him as an electoral liability and want to see him replaced before the next GE. Thats facing push back from the Varadkar camp who are eyeing up a cabinet reshuffle when he gets to be the Taoiseach again, Leo is literally their ticket to a plum job so they are fighting for him now. That explains why Charlie Flanagan openly criticised Coveney at the Comittee during the week and also why Patrick 'Donovan was acting as a gopher to find out the source of Cabinet leaks

    What is driving much of this debacle is Varadkars attempt to wound Coveney to ensure he doesnt face a leadership challenge, he is trying to head him off at the pass. Thats why Varadkar released those text messages, it was designed to wound Coveney for any upcoming leadership contest. The timing of the text message release was also classic FG schoolboy stuff, Varadkar did it at the moment he knew Coveney was flying in the Government jet. Imagine the scene of Simon enjoying the cream leather seats of a private jet along with a nice glass of red wine and suddenly his advisor comes down to tell him the news Varadkar is after completely shafting him and they need to get their spin story ready. This is classic FG student politics, they get off on this type of stuff. It was the same with Kate o'Connell and the bale of turf they planned to present her at a FG meeting and the M50 sign they placed outside her pharmacy in Rathgar. They really are some bunch of children.

    This Varadkar Coveney battle is set to continue. All the while Paschal is sitting there making sure not to interrupt his enemies while they are making mistakes. Simon Harris also has his eyes on the top prize as does Helen McEntee who said as much in a fluff piece with the Indo in June. We're really only getting started on the internal power struggle within FG and they are already eating each other alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,585 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    We don't know he lied, maybe Katherine Zappone is a Walter Mitty type character and Leo could have reasonably thought Simon would come back saying he hadn't a clue what she was on about.

    This is a woman who started message stating she was in a wine bar (not being from Dublin I thought it was Leos pet name for her, a weird term of endearment to do with Winnie the Pooh - Leo does have form with pop culture references).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭Economics101


    You misinterpret what I said. I was saying that in more normal times all this might have been privately talked about over a cup of coffee. I can't see how that could be subject to FOI barring really Orwellian surveillance. Just because the pandemic forces ordinary conversation into electronic mode the whole thing becomes an FOI matter. Personally I think this is a bit OTT, but if you don't then, fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You can't get somebody's personal information through Freedom of Information.

    As I pointed out already, the best that a FOI would have got would have been a heavily redacted text exchange, which would have prompted more conspiracy theory stuff from the usual suspects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    I no longer even know what it is you're actually arguing about now, Zappone was already named as the person they had earmarked for the crony position, it was already out there in the public domain, she texted Leo on his (assumedly) govt phone, asking about a government role she had been promised, therefore it was subject to FOI. Pointless, and pedantic to suggest there would have been any point redacting Zappones name, I'm sure Matt Barrett was ok with Leo releasing texts with his name, but apart from that - what "*personal information" do you think outside of FOI was there?

    It seems you now have become gamekeeper turned poacher, and are arguing Leo is in the wrong? I can bet you a penny to a pound if anyone that a shinner came out claiming Vardkar potentially broke GDPR rules, you would be on here arguing to the hilt as to how that was an incorrect assesment, and I'd probably be in agreement.

    My how the times have changed. 🤣

    They could have talked about it over a cup of coffee if they wanted, either in private or in a public establishment, but they didn't, they chose to communicate with each other via electronic means, and that communication was subject to FOI.

    Leo and Simon got sloppy. That's about the long and short of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I said if Leo didn't get their permission it was a breach of GDPR to release all of those texts.

    I assume he got their permission, because he knew that if he didn't, all of you conspiracy theorists would be claiming there was something suspicious in what was redacted. All in all, the texts are as bland as could be expected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Absolutely correct. The text exchange has the clear implication that Varadkar didn't know what she was talking about so asked Coveney what is this, so the first time he knew what is was about was the text response from Coveney.

    Anyone who can't see that is acting the idiot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    As clearly laid out, twice, she texted him about it. He said he hadn't heard about it. Lie.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    I would say it's somewhere between highly unlikely, and not a snowballs chance in hell did Zappone, or certainly Coveney give Leo permission to release the texts. Zappone comes across as an entitled spoilt brat in hers, and Coveney was completely blindsided by his exchange being released.


    I don't believe you really believe that he got their permission either.



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