Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Random EV thoughts.....

1150151153155156421

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “The project is to test on-street EV charging using a specially designed ‘gully’ or channel installed into the pavement which allows residents to safely connect their EV to their home electricity supply when parked outside their home.”

    Haven’t heard of this before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Nothing really new here from a technical standpoint, it's just a covered channel the cable sits into

    Basically the problems with on-street charging were never technically challenging, they just required either funding for public chargers or councils to change their planning laws

    Methinks obtaining blood from a rock would be an easier feat that either of those two 😑

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Meanwhile in countries that can actually do something


    1000 fast charging parks, minimum 4 chargers per site, minimum 300kW charging power available (although it doesn't say each charger needs to supply that much, so it could be split). Funded with €2 billion from the German federal government


    Price cap of 44c/kWh, so that's Ionity pushed out of the market straight away. Not sure I totally agree with price caps, but it is nice to see some consumer protection built into government grants



    Location determined by a combination of AI and lottery draw per area, so there should be a good distribution of sites



    And once again, Ireland has been left in the dust

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Although I appreciate and agree with your sentiment you just can't compare Ireland to Germany



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    No, but it shows that the gov does something. We get a 5-6 year 20M investment plastered on all press releases when it comes to EVs. In the national picture it's such a minuscule figure. 4M a year. That equates with few hundred of meters of motorway if one would compare some infrastructure costs. Since 2019 when the 20M which is 10M state and 10M ESB nothing. Absolutely nothing.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I know but even if scaled for population (Ireland is about 1/20th the population of Germany) that's give us 50 charging hubs with at least 200 fast chargers, more than double what we currently have

    I get that Germany is geographically larger and has a lot of international road traffic as well as domestic road users, but even if we halved that for Ireland it would still be €50 million of funding, more than twice what is currently available

    The thing I find most frustrating is the level of thought going into the plans in Germany, how they're taking measures to ensure the chargers are well spread along both autobahns and urban areas. Whereas in Ireland we have the vast majority on HPCs clustered along 2 routes and a veritable wasteland of chargers in the entire northwest of the country

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Just a perfect example of Gov oversight incompetence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Just received this email from EasyGo (highlighting is not mine). I thought the eCars overstay fee only applied once per session?

    Dear xyz

    As you know, we continue to provide access onto all EasyGo, ESB and Ionity / Circle K chargers across Ireland. 

    Where EasyGo customers charge at partner sites, we are obliged to apply the fee according to the access rules they apply on their chargers. The rates applicable at each charge-point location are clearly set out on the EasyGo app. 

    We have had questions recently in regard to ESB policy of applying an overstay fee (of €5 +VAT) where users continue charging on ANY eCars Charger (AC & DC) for more than 45 minutes and for every 45 minutes thereafter. This charger access rule and associated fee is decided upon and applied by ESB.  

    By comparison, where you use an EasyGo charger, no such rule and associated fee is applied.  

    Should you have questions or issues in relation to this ESB policy, we suggest you contact ESB eCars directly. 

    We hope this information is helpful and should ESB eCars change this policy we will update you.

    Kindest Regards,

    EasyGo Team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    Maybe these rules are set by ecars in their roaming agreement with easygo cause the ecars overstay is 4.60 +VAT is once per charging session and added only at chargers >22kW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “the cables are six-metres-long and spring-loaded, so they’re easy to lift and should reach the far corner of your car no matter which way you park – no more awkward U-turns having realised that the cable doesn’t reach! The “dispensers” are very compact, so they can be installed in more locations than some conventional chargers, and the cables’ temperature management negates the need for liquid cooling, reducing maintenance requirements and improving reliability.”



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    ^^^^^^

    eCars be like;

    424BA499-210E-446E-8BEC-45FA0878C3F9.gif




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think Kempower deserve a prize for the design of the charge points if nothing else. The way the cables are kept high up by springs and don't fall on the ground to end up damaged is pure genius

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,265 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Germany have large motoring manufacturing, this in essence is state funding for them. Which the state will get back through taxes on employment, sales and corporation tax

    we don’t have any motor manufacturing, so the state isn’t as incentivised



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    I must admit I never heard this excuse before and it is a good one. In the meantime Dublin charging map looks like this Sunday morning @08:00

    image.png

    The available ones are "power limited" so if you're lucky you get 22kW out of them. I refer here to Honey Park and Templeville. Dublin Port is just to cumbersome unless you're getting of a ferry but it is close to ecars headquarters.

    Dublin beside being one of the few capitals in EU without a subway does not have a single HPC. we're still on the same rapids as in 2016. Some people are waking up @3am to charge, it seems here

    image.png

    which kinda shows a bit of desperation if you ask me.

    Now that I'm thinking I believe I heard the excuse that we are among the few countries in the EU where we pay VRT up to 36% just because there is no automotive industry here. So maybe not that new at the end.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    That 3am activity is fairly consistent. Shift worker charging perhaps? Far busier than you'd expect though.



    Side note, that 0,0,0 etc at 23:00 kinda looks like a bug, or UTC time breaking my balls. I'll check it out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭garo


    I would have thought that the government would be incentivised to reduce import of hydrocarbons? Every additional EV would probably reduce HC import by about 10 tons over its lifetime. 20,000 km p.a. @ 5l/100km over 15 odd years. Take away the HC used for electricity generation and you get in that ballpark. 100k EVs per annum will reduce hydrocarbon import by a million tons over their lifetime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Polluting vehicles mean more tax revenue for the government from VRT, fuel excise and road tax


    The only incentive for the government to reduce emissions is to appeal to voters, in that case it's more important to appear to be doing something than actually doing anything

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    Yes it is odd alright. Still the charger is used at all hours of the day all the days of the week. You'd normally expect no utilization during the night on the fast chargers. That shows a big demand in the area. I used to use this charger a lot.

    Here is yesterday @2pm. That is pretty mental.

    image.png

    From your stats. around 1000 sessions per day right now. A session gets max 10 quid but let call it 5. That is 5k a day or 150k a month. And this is only the rapid charging. I know there are operating costs but still is not bleeding money for a business which got 10M to revamp their operations. Anyway all that could have been avoided if the gov really wanted to build an infrastructure to sustain the desired 1M EVs on the road. Because even if we believe the "80% charging at home" and 20k km average driving in a year that still leaves 4 billion km to be "fueled" buy a public network (Monday morning my math could be off 20k*1M*0.2).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    ...and the UK putting in just short of a billion to bring all services stations up to date with hub of rapids


    In March 2021, Transport Minister Rachel Maclean told Electrifying.com that the British government would be spending nearly £1 billion on improving the electric vehicle chargers on main roads. She said every motorway service area would have at least six rapid chargers by 2023, and that there would be 6,000 chargers across the major road network by 2030. These would be available to all road users with a contactless payment card, and the companies provided them would be contractually bound to provide a service that works at least 99% of the time, and to provide a 24 hour customer support line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Also in UK, Shell aim to install 50,000 on-street charge points. Earlier in the year, they bought Ubitricity, who are a supplier of local authority charge points. They currently have a network of 3,600 in lamp posts and bollards. This is to expand that. The government pay 75% of the installation costs of these for local authorities. Shell/Ubitricity will pay the rest (subject to commercial terms, of course).

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/01/shell-on-street-ev-charge-points-2025



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253


    “The site is strategically placed on the A56 and has eight dedicated ultra-rapid 150kW EV charging bays”

    Is J14 Mayfield still in testing? Esb rollout seems to have slowed to a complete halt, especially when it comes to hubs.



  • Moderators Posts: 12,421 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    Sure they got Mayfield rolled out. They'll be talking about that longer than Arsenal talked about being "invincibles".

    Rollout has certainly slowed this last few weeks.

    image.png image.png

    * only 5 months for slow units. About 6 months ago they removed about 60 3rd party units from their site.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    J14 is not sorted. I see on plugshare people reporting slow speeds. I noticed when a car is connected on the 350kW side the 200kW turns red. I bet we won't hear anything about a new hubs unless these issues are resolved. Also there is one smaller hub with the units installed since March and not powered up. https://www.plugshare.com/location/34914. The Porlaoise 150kW unit still limited @50kW.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,829 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Unreal, are eCars not in the real world where we have Operational Qualification and Equipment Qualification before let loose on the public, what a crowd of amateurs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    The fear I have is... I seem to remember watching a Bjorn video where he was showing some of them new units that the ESB have installed in Mayfield.. the Hyper speed units, and saying that they were having some issues with them.....

    So if the Norwegians are/were 'having issues' with those units, you can only imagine that the same issues will be cataclysmic for someone like eCars..... and they'll never be working right. (I just looked at the app again, and every time 1 side is being used, the other side goes offline!!)


    Something tells me they'd have just been better off installing 6 of the 150kW units, with 5 of them being single CCS, and the last one being twin CHAdeMO, and then just a bog standard 50kW triple head (with AC43).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    That must be a recent development. I used one of those about 2 weeks ago and there was an ID.4 on the 350kW side and I was on the 200kW side and we were both charging. It was busy the same day with some of the other units with both cables being used too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,179 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I pulled in a few weeks ago, and tried to use a 200kW cable where a Model S was using the 350kW side and it wouldn't work.. I should have checked the app first as it showed as unavailable. I moved down to the 50kW unit and plugged into it, and about 2 minutes lates saw th e1st 200kW I tried was back available again, so moved on down to it.

    The Model S driver came out (a German guy) and was shocked that I got it working, as he couldn't get it working when he first arrived while another car was using the other side, and only started the charge when that car left... so it really seems to be hit and miss as to when it will and won't charge 2 cars at once....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭simons104


    How many years does a battery on an EV last? Will it just die eventually like a phone? Does that render the car useless or is getting a new battery installed simple?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,005 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Depends on a lot of factors, including how much the car is driven, how often it's charged and to what level it's charged and discharged

    To give you an idea of what to expect, most EVs now come with a battery warranty of 8 years and some mileage limit, 160,000km seems standard

    The warranty is that the battery will not experience higher than expected degredation over this time period. If that does happen then they need to replace the battery at no cost to you


    At the end of this period, the car will likely still have the majority of its battery capacity, assuming it's been reasonably well looked after. So it's far from useless, if you started with a 400km range EV, and it loses a fairly drastic 20% over 8 years, then you still have a 320km EV


    Another way of looking at it is to check older EVs. The Leafs from 2011 are largely still going but many have lost a good bit of capacity, close to 40% in some cases. They're pretty much worst case as the Leaf doesn't have battery cooling that most modern EVs have.

    Older Tesla's are also generally going strong without any real degredation issues. Tesla are talking about batteries that can last for over a million miles on some of their cars

    To answer your question of "is it like a phone battery?", the answer is no, phone batteries are treated way worse. Batteries in phones are typically exposed to hot and cold temperatures, they have no real cooling systems, they're charged to maximum capacity and discharged to empty.

    All of this accelerates degredation and means your phone battery often loses a big chunk of capacity after 3 years. Having said that, I'm typing this on a 5 year old phone which usually lasts the day on a charge 😁

    EV batteries are basically the same technology, but they have way more safeguards to stop them overheating, freezing, being discharged to empty of charged too fast. This is how they last much longer than typical phone batteries

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 7,026 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    And to add to this, phones are designed to live fast die young. using all of the battery capacity all the time.

    Most cars have a hidden buffer too so even if you do charge to 100%, its not really at 100% and that allows the battery to last longer.

    If you do want your phone battery to last longer, Charge slowly (new pixels have an adaptive charge rate, so it will charge at a slower rate to be ready at a certain time), Only charge to 80% etc.



This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement