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Candyman (2021)

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,701 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Was he typecast?

    On immediate thought, I can only think of him in 'Candyman' and the remake of 'Night of the Living Dead'.

    An unfulfilled career would be what would come to my mind when I think of Tony Todd.




    *nips over to wiki...fkn ell, he's been in loads of stuff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,997 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Anyway, so then I says to Mabel ...

    Tony Todd. Now there's an actor who maybe got a little typecast? Though if there are only two malevolent roles I know him from (Candyman, and The Rock), a third would be one of Star Trek's best - and most heart-rending episodes - "The Visitor". His voice is also just amazing.

    Obviously, without the context of the show, the clip is a little meaningless, but any excuse to share a clip from the best Trek show there was:


    Maybe you should watch Tales From The Hood 3.

    As a film its fairly naff but (unsurprisingly) Todd is the massive highlight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,023 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Was he typecast?

    On immediate thought, I can only think of him in 'Candyman' and the remake of 'Night of the Living Dead'.

    An unfulfilled career would be what would come to my mind when I think of Tony Todd.




    *nips over to wiki...fkn ell, he's been in loads of stuff.

    He and Robert Englund are 2 guys who do pop up in horror movies a lot.
    Tony was also in the Final Destination films and gave advice about how to avoid dying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,023 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Jaysus, it would be desperate if there was anything about race or local urban tensions or gentrification or anything in a Candyman film.

    What next, kinky weirdness in Hellraiser? These kids today, eh?

    Was actually just reading about the remake of Hellraiser and I see they're going to have a female Pinhead and the lead non-pinhead character, I assume, will be played by Odessa A’zion


  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    And they're off....

    In advance of the Aug. 27 release for Nia DaCosta’s “Candyman,” Universal Pictures and Jordan Peele’s Monkeypaw Prods. have launched a social impact initiative connected to the film, with the hashtag #TellEveryone.

    Directed by DaCosta, the new movie stars Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, Teyonah Parris and Colman Domingo and paints a new picture of the Candyman urban legend with a focus on the social justice elements of his story.

    On Friday, the companies unveiled a social impact website, which serves as a singular hub for the conversation to live through the designated hashtags #CANDYMAN and #TELLEVERYONE.

    Robinson added: “... The real threat here is this kind of unaddressed, ongoing systemic and structural violence from white institutions.”

    https://variety.com/2021/film/news/candyman-social-impact-initiative-nia-dacosta-jordan-peele-1235045550/

    User: "Untitled Image"




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,997 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Glasso I dont think this movie is for you. It seems far too upsetting for you and is rated 16+.


    Give it a skip.



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It would be scary alright if more IP's were crudely hijacked by politicisation

    Isn't the film medium supposed to be an "artform" and not a political one?

    (re article below - poster above may need a dictionary and to read slowly - sorry about that - give it a skip?)

    https://www.ft.com/content/2a9a8a26-01d1-11e8-9650-9c0ad2d7c5b5

    Why politics should not go to the cinema

    (free registration may be required to read so posting relevant article content below)

    It is with the most awful dread that you sense cinema becoming another field of politics in these over-politicised times. Detectable in the pre-Oscars mood is a creeping indifference to art as art — a demotion of aesthetic judgment to tests of ideological soundness. Even if the intentions are mostly good, it amounts to philistinism by another name. A critical culture that rates work by what it says about populism, identity and the rest of the nightly news will end up begetting a lot of “woke” but low-quality film-making.



    There is vainglorious talk of culture, especially a chastened Hollywood, as the “resistance” to populism. Yet culture is much more precious as the escape from it. A working definition of civilisation is the availability of space away from politics. It is the failed state and the autocracy where politics permeates everything — where all acts, however creative, involve taking a position. People who have never had to flee their homes to avoid life-and-death governmental strife under-rate what it is to make or consume art without a political thought in your head. Let us not trade in the Hollywood of Wes Anderson and peak-era Steven Spielberg — of entertainment, interpreted as such — for a joyless scrutiny of every film for the hidden power relations of a rigged superstructure, or whatever.


    Famously, the great Irish novelist John Banville fears for any aspiring young writer who tells him that they have important things to say about the world. Describe a familiar object in an original way, is his preferred test of suitability for his profession. The essence of art is the technique, not the message.


    Literature went through the crisis of politicisation long ago. In The Closing of the American Mind, Allan Bloom chastised the professors who taught the western canon as something that was compromised by the unconscious biases of its privileged authors, not as an aesthetic creation on its own terms. If the same priggish habit spreads to our appreciation of film, we are in for a dreary time just as we need the consolations of art. We will be left with — what? — instrumental music as the only one of life’s creative endeavours that cannot be analysed for its political content. Even then, some people will find a way.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Isn't the film medium supposed to be an "artform" and not a political one?

    Art has always involved politics, and vice versa. Art museums are literally full of victors proclaiming their versions of history, it was the primary tool of propaganda; it just looked pretty as well 🙂. I mean, we argued the toss bigtime already so I'm probably going to be invited to fck off again lol 😁 but to claim cinema, or art itself is exempt from the centuries of examples of politicisation, is naive. There's plenty of room for superficiality and subtext. If the specific politics itself annoy you, then that's fine but better to go with god rather than try and claim it's the world (or medium) that's aberrant here.



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    sorry but the point is about cinema being worsened by falling victim to politicisation, not whataboutery about old museum pieces.

    thanks.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Mod note: Enough trolling, glasso



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,701 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I agree that politics and cinema go hand in hand and always have. There is however a danger in making politics part of the text rather than merely the subtext of the film especially in films that aim to entertain or appeal to a wide audience. I think we can all point to older films with agendas (see the heavy-handed moralising of 50s and 60s Hollywood films) that just seem annoying and outdated to us now. I fear a lot of modern cultural progressivism isn't going to age well and the movies that try to substitute it for good filmmaking and storytelling will end up being forgotten or dismissed. I am not saying that's the case with this film (the first trailer looked excellent!) but I think it certainly was true of the recent Twilight Zone reboot that Peele also produced. Tbh I think a lot of is just marketing, a way of making dumb movies seem more profound than they are - see the lead actor of the latest Marvel movie claiming the film is telling the story of Asian identity etc. Some movies also get claimed by one or another side of the culture war despite not necessarily supporting the political agenda in question.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    My primary concern TBH is that the last trailer spoils the entirety of the film and its twist. I have a sneaking suspicion the big swerve has been heavily telegraphed in the promotion.

    That's a fair assessment but as you say it won't be til the clouds of time pass that we'll be able to assess films of this era as either a net negative or positive for the medium. But I would argue that horror movies, especially modern ones, often use social or political ideas as the template for their stories. Sometimes existential, sometimes social, often more than subtext.

    As you say American cinema of the 1950s was obnoxious in its politicisation. The Hays Code alone makes the assertion of neutrality hard to swallow; literally inserting political demands onto filmmaking to save Americans' souls for years. Hitchcock showing a flushing toilet being a subversive move! Can't get more politicised than that. And that's aside from When cinema wasn't simply engaging in communist fear-mongering. But in that era you still had great politics infused works like the Day The Earth Stood Still, albeit hiding its politics behind saucer-men.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Of course a lot of ‘politics’ in modern Hollywood films is shallow and performative. It’s ‘liberal’ in a very conservative way. Maybe it’s a vague hint of a same-sex relationship or a big ‘girl power’ moment, but nothing actually meaningful or properly explored. It’s a very particular type of bland, corporate-approved progressivism. Cinema has been addressing things like homosexuality and feminism and indeed capital p Politics in all manner of transgressive and truly progressive ways for many decades: modern blockbusters are mostly still wading in the kiddie’s pool.

    But just to reiterate a point made several times in this thread: we’re talking about Candyman. A film that’s the product of the late 80s and early 90s, and one deeply concerned with its social and political themes. It’s the rarest of reboots that seems uniquely suited to wade in at this particular moment of American culture. Whether it does it well or not, well we’ll see what De Costa has to offer later this week :)



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,160 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I'm looking forward to seeing this on Friday (tickets already booked). Although this thread has made me look forward even more to the ability to block posters on the new boards....



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Any heavy-handed and hackneyed pieces age terribly and are quickly cast aside.

    the above article's use of Banville's sentiment on the matter is indeed apt and worth another consideration

    Famously, the great Irish novelist John Banville fears for any aspiring young writer who tells him that they have important things to say about the world. Describe a familiar object in an original way, is his preferred test of suitability for his profession. The essence of art is the technique, not the message.

    And as for marketing including the use of "social justice" marketing websites as here - it's no less dubious from a promotional tactic point of view than Nike or another big corporate jumping on the bandwagon du jour in their ads as they are so prone to doing once it's deemed sufficiently "worthy" and hitting the needle vis-à-vis being sufficiently mainstream to warrant consideration as a "theme".



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    very pre-invested.

    no doubt the report will be glowing no matter what the content.

    Peele, DaCosta et al probably think that they have imbued it with enough non-political subtlety maybe?

    I can't recall more deliberately cheap provocative tosh in recent times as the stuff in the "Candyman is" clip below.

    They even use the word "provocative" ffs - never a good sign. Should have added "desperate"!


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,997 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    If you want politics free you can just stick to age appropriate movies. Shaun the Sheep, Lego Movie etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,701 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Of course politics and movies have gone hand in hand since the medium was invented. Leni Riefenstahl or those 70's conspiracy thrillers immediately spring to mind as the glaringly obvious, and there's more subtle comments on the likes of McCartyism across many a film for instance. But I think it's the fact that a lot of the "Politics" of modern movies is just so empty. It's not a genuine comment on anything and more just a cheap gimmick or an attempt at marketing optics, especially when all the adjacent harping in thrown into the mix. It's become extremely tiresome for a lot of people and it's easy to understand why, but it's kinda ridiculous to whinge about it incessantly too. However it would be nice to have dumb movies just be dumb movies without all the the tacked on tokenism.

    But then, as you say, some movies get roped into this silly American culture war crap without their intent. Hello 'Joker'.

    It doesn't bother me too much personally. To be honest the people who constantly whine about such things, as if the sky is falling, are probably far more annoying than the forgettable movies they're moaning about. But it will be great when Hollywood moves on and I agree there'll be some embarrassment in years to when people look back on all this twee nonsense because absolutely none of these silly movies are doing anything for the "empowerment" of anyone.



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I would have to defer to the obvious extensive knowledge of children's fare in your case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,997 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    You wont find them as upsetting as this movie I promise.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The first line of your last paragraph is the part that I'm 100x behind TBH; if I totted up the times I come across something "woke", versus the times I come across obnoxious bores screaming outrage about perceived woke-crimes, I know exactly where the vast majority would lie. It's exhausting how polluted discussion or opinion has become by those incapable of processing something as simple as "this may not be for me personally and that's OK". It's just an empty refrain now. Especially with a film that probably wasn't going to be watched by half the pearl clutchers anyway. The politics Tony; the politics. Didn't you know? ART HAS NEVER BEEN POLITICAL. LIKE, EVER. True story.



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    (no spoilers)

    So looks like the subtext of the original movie (although not in the Clive Barker OG story) has been "Peeled" and not to good effect

    Well there's a surprise.





  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Subtext and subtlety vs Smashing you in the face.....

    Again - no spoiler

    And not scary in the slightest - not a horror film anymore.

    Seems like a stinker but the double-down merchants won't be able to admit it!

    Peele has now ruined two classic IP's now between the Twilight Zone and Candyman - if he's going to continue to cash in on this trend (which all it is effectively as it does not actually produce any true change as that is much deeper) then please don't ruin any other IP's - stick to the "Us" type concoctions please. Since "Get out" which was good the output has been poor, incohesive, ham-fisted and actually boring.


    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Really liked this, with one unusual caveat - it’s maybe too short. That’s a very rare thing to say, as usually it’s the opposite. But here the film is so packed with ideas and things it wants to explore that it actually ends up feeling quite hurried and rushed when it starts wrapping up its plot around 75 minutes in. Particularly as it starts referencing the original film’s mythology, it really feels like an extra ten minutes of space could have made a difference - as is, the climax feels rather confused and rushed. There’s particularly little in the way of space to let some of the characters or plot details develop beyond their basic function. It leaves some sequences - like the schoolgirls summoning Candyman - feel sort of shoved in there, as memorably staged as they might be.

    In other ways its sparse, economical running time is a boon. There’s no lingering too long on individual scenes, but it’s a hugely moody piece - mostly down to a relentlessly eerie soundtrack and some spectacularly strong visual direction. The use of lights - from projectors to police lights to the glow of a smartphone - make some of the tenser scenes truly pop. And then there’s modern Chicago itself - the cold, joyless skyscrapers frequently lurking ominously in the background. The actual slasher action too is imaginatively filmed, often from a distance - DaCosta only rarely shows the killing, but finds smart ways to frame them in a way that maintains some mystery without dulling the impact. One particularly good scene shows a horrific event unfold as the camera gradually zooms out from rather than into the action.

    It’s a very worthy follow-up to the original film, and what initially seems like a more didactic take on that film’s themes (the word ‘gentrification’ is spoken overtly in an early scene) actually explores the themes and ideas behind Candyman in a range of curious, intriguing directions. It’s heavily about cycles of violence and the lasting impact of past atrocities. It ultimately lands on a worthy new take on Candyman’s central motivations, but one which feels like a natural evolution of the original story. Far from being a simple subversion though, it deepens and complicates the legend - adding a bleak, cynical extra layer.

    It certainly can get a bit muddled in the way it tries to hit some of its themes - especially during, as mentioned, that messy final act - and they don't always fit super neatly into what ultimately must also be a supernatural slasher movie. But in trying to wrestle with the ideas that have always been there with Candyman in a very modern context - this is in the end a trickier beast than some of its more 'theme-y' dialogue scenes might suggest.

    Candyman here ultimately becomes a sort of protector of Black men and women - but he’s far from a superhero or even antihero. Instead, the violence continues and the retribution comes at a great cost. There was no joy or relief in this film’s striking ending - instead, only the promise of a messy, complicated and - most depressingly - violent future.

    Post edited by johnny_ultimate on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    This is a really great review by the way, well worth linking as an alternate perspective. I’m obviously much more positive about it (so disagree on some points), but this is very extremely well written and argued: https://www.vulture.com/article/candyman-2021-movie-review-nia-dacosta-jordan-peele.html



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,160 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    I really liked this and would echo what Johnny has said above. The visual direction is gorgeous, with a properly eerie opening sequence whose effect is entirely down to creative camera placement. The slasher scenes were also fantastic, creatively staged and presented with flair. And the end credits sequence was a beautiful yet horrible coda to the film's discussion of why Cabrini Green needs the Candyman.

    In terms of the story and narrative, it builds on the original film without simply recreating it, in a way that reminded me somewhat of the reboot/remake of The Town That Dreaded Sundown where the events of the original film are openly acknowledged and inform the later film's perspective.



  • Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ⬅️😬➡️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,377 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Heading to see this tomorrow in the lighthouse looking forward to it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭santana75


    Seeing this tomorrow, sounds promising. One interesting thing......I saw a documentary on sky recently about a serial killer in America during the early 70s called "The Candy man". I'm wondering if the original movie from the early 90s had anything to do with that case or is the fact that the movie and the real case share a name purely coincidence.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,546 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Just one thing: I’d definitely recommend seeing the first film before this. It’s very much a sequel. This does a reasonably good job catching you up on the basics, but the way the film plays off the ideas from the first are much more resonant if you’ve seen both :)



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