Don't buy in a new estate

Fred Cryton · 21-08-2021 6:46pm #1

People buying 4 bed brand new homes in Cabinteely for €770k now face the prospect of 40% social housing in the estate as the council leases a good chunk of the estate for social housing .

Imagine trying to sell those in a few years now the cat is out of the bag. Be lucky to get €550k. Can only feel sorry for them.

It's a disgrace. And it's only going to get worse as the Department of Housing budget has been doubled.

Allinall · 21-08-2021 6:51pm

Why would they be selling in a few years?

L1011 · 21-08-2021 6:51pm

Drop the political soapboxing or this thread is not going to last long. That ranges from your (anti) to the ranting about taxpayers.

There is absolutely nothing preventing your local council or an AHB buying houses in an established estate either.

Fred Cryton · 21-08-2021 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785890#Comment_117785890

That's not exactly true is it? Plenty prevents the council leasing 40% in an established estate, as most would be owner occupied.

L1011 · 21-08-2021 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785900#Comment_117785900

Time is the only thing that prevents it from happening quickly. In a functioning housing market a good 5-10% are likely to go on sale every year.

There is no guarantee, anywhere, that you are not going to have a social housing tenant beside you now or in the future - unless you also own all the properties around you. Which is unlikely.

Spanish Eyes · 21-08-2021 7:23pm

It's well for them, these social tenants in very decent areas all the same isn't it? No one can deny that. Compare and contrast to those who not only are paying through their taxes for them, but are also in many cases going to live next to those who did not have to sweat buckets, and beg steal and borrow to get the deposit and pay a hefty mortgage. The vast majority of purchasers feel the same. And the allocation of these properties to social housing in desirable areas lessens the pool available for those who wish to buy.

Whoever the mod is here can ban me if they want I don't care, I am totally fed up of this overypayment by councils for accommodation in purpose built properties in very good areas. I doubt I am alone, but sure look it, no one can complain about anything that affects them anymore.

Bye now in anticipation.

pollymv1 · 21-08-2021 7:48pm

Buy in Westmeath - no problem with social housing influx.

coinflip · 21-08-2021 7:55pm

This is the source for the OP

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/residents-object-to-plan-to-lease-cabinteely-apartments-for-social-housing-1.4652218?mode=amp

Del2005 · 21-08-2021 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785900#Comment_117785900

And once the 1st troublesome tenant is moved in you'll soon see the owner occupiers selling up, it'll get to 40% then.

KevRossi · 21-08-2021 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786089#Comment_117786089

Yeah right. Athlone and especially Mullingar have problem estates. And I mean big problems in them. Just google it.

jmlad2020 · 21-08-2021 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786089#Comment_117786089

Hi the f**k wants to live in Westmeath

jay1988 · 21-08-2021 11:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786012#Comment_117786012

Should social housing tenants only live in bad areas? Have to love the snobs who think they should have any choice in who lives near them.

Enter name here · 21-08-2021 11:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786867#Comment_117786867

Social housing should be housed in what they contribute to society, in other words a tent in Phoenix Park. Seriously though yes social tenants should be housed together, don't want to live in social housing estates, then better yourself through work or education.

jay1988 · 22-08-2021 12:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786889#Comment_117786889

You do understand that there is thousands upon thousands of working people in social housing don't you? So plenty of them contribute to society in many ways. Also (thankfully) people like you don't get to decide where others live, its actually **** all of anybodys business if their neighbours are in social housing or not.

22-08-2021 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786889#Comment_117786889

Do you include nurses, treachers and garda in your list of people who don't want to "contribute to society"?

shesty · 22-08-2021 9:20am

Mind you the real question there should be why the cost of a private house is out of the reach of said nurses, teachers and gardai.

Luxembourgo · 22-08-2021 9:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786867#Comment_117786867

Well paying lower rents or buying in less desirable areas would surely lead to more houses being built /bought /available.

Which in turn would lead to more people in social housing with a roof over their head, which is surely the whole point.

22-08-2021 9:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205166/dont-buy-in-a-new-estate

If those people are such snobs that they can't live in the same estate as social housing tenants, then I have no sympathy for them.

of course, most normal people don't think like that or like you OP.

Enter name here · 22-08-2021 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787453#Comment_117787453

If anyone is working they should not be subsidized with social housing, people should live where they can afford and not where they aspire to live. Half the reason the country has such a problem. Developers would be absolutely mad to build in this country, imagine being told you have to give 25% of your investment to the government for social housing. Why on gods earth would anyone buy in an estate with social housing, leads to higher insurance rates, exposure to criminal elements and anti social behaviour and over all substantially lowers the value of your own home. Want more houses built by developers in this country get rid of the mandatory social housing element and watch the industry boom. And for all the ensuing posts about snobs etc etc. You want to live in a socialist society move the Russia or China and see how you get on there.

The Mighty Quinn · 22-08-2021 11:04am

Developers aren't GIVING the houses they build to local government. They're SELLING to them.

22-08-2021 11:06am

Lol

imagine thinking developers give anything away! Hilarious

Jmc25 · 22-08-2021 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787468#Comment_117787468

This is the ultimate issue alright.

I grew up in a working class area with loads of social housing so I'm not a snob about it and I think the state should build more of it.

But I also do empathise with someone forking out 450k on a brand new house and then seeing half the street living there virtually for free.

And I can see why a couple earning around 60k are aggrieved at paying 1500 per month for a one bedroom apartment while people they went to school with who popped out three kids by the age of 21 get a three bed semi-detached house for a couple for a few hundred per month.

Social housing is a necessary and and effective policy within an overall functioning market. When the market is as broken as it is at the moment the perception will always be that social housing is in some way unfair, and in many cases that's actually a justified view to have.

Jinglejangle69 · 22-08-2021 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786980#Comment_117786980

Yes

But the fact is the majority in social housing do not work.

shesty · 22-08-2021 11:22am

A younger sibling of mine was a first time buyer, she bought late last year.

After 10 months of looking she concluded that second hand was the way to go.This was in spite of the grant for first time buyers, but it was influenced by the fact that the Council and housing charities are buying chunks of houses in the many new estates being built where she was looking.She just didn't want to fork out 400k only to be looking at someone across the street paying a nominal sum, or nothing.

Now....she was financially in a position to be able to make that choice.Others may not be.But I think it does have a bearing on the decision for more people than we realise.

Enter name here · 22-08-2021 11:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787725#Comment_117787725

The developers are forced to sell to local government at what they deem fair market value not actual market value (learn the difference then comment). Secondly in an affluent area how the hell is a developer supposed to sell the remaining 75% of his development at market value when that news eventually surfaces. Hence why developers are staying away in droves.

Fred Cryton · 22-08-2021 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787795#Comment_117787795

Yep, this is a huge problem. Councils should be banned from buying or leasing beyond the 10% Part V. That is the right thing to do, but no votes or virtue-signalling possible in that.

Luxembourgo · 22-08-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787890#Comment_117787890

No don't you know social housing is the only housing that matters.

All other people must pay high rents while paying tax for the government to piss up a wall while being ignored by the opposition

ohnohedidnt · 22-08-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787502#Comment_117787502

I live in an estate with social housing. The estate was built in stages, and a lot of the social housing seem to be grouped together, I don't live near any, but if you drove around our estate, I wouldn't have to tell you where the social housing is concentrated, its obvious. The houses aren't looked after all, that may be because they can't afford it, or because they don't have as much pride in it because they didn't have to work as hard for it. But if you work your ass off to buy a house and are surround by people who don't care about theirs, then it affects the value of your house, so not only do your taxes end up subsidizing houses for other people, the value of your own drops at the same time. I wouldn't call that snobbery, it's just a natural reaction to being shafted.

And I'm sure your going to say not all people in social housing will neglect their house, which of course it true, but a much higher percentage will than people who have paid for the house themselves. There's plenty in social housing and nobody even knows it's social housing, they're not the people anybody has a problem with.

Charles Babbage · 22-08-2021 12:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787826#Comment_117787826

I think there has been a general problem here. A lot of policy has been focussed on getting this type of cut price slice from developers, part V and so on. But apart from the issues the OP has, if you force the developer to sell x% of the houses cheaply then you cause him to charge more for the rest, essientially putting thr burdern of social houing provision on those who buy new houses, who are themselves in need of housing and sometimes not that much better off than those in the social housing. If there is to be social housing then ithe cost of it should fall on all people, not just new house buyers.

KaneToad · 22-08-2021 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787468#Comment_117787468

The cost of a private house is not out of reach of nurses, teachers & gardai. A single person, in those professions, will find it difficult to get a house but an apt will be within their grasp.

Mad_maxx · 22-08-2021 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787468#Comment_117787468

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787453#Comment_117787453

very few nurses or guards live in social housing , a guard and nurse couple would be on a combined income of 100 k

social housing should not be in private estates but social housing estates should not be left ignored by government , most people in social housing estates are decent people , the trouble is that the delinquent tenants are allowed do what they like , thats both a policing and local authority issue , the hard left Politicians and ideologues who feature so prominently in the media oppose dealing with these people which hurts the decent majority in those areas

22-08-2021 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787927#Comment_117787927

Plenty of people who own their own houses don't do upkeep, or turn their gardens into dumps. Happens all the time.

It's lazy stereotyping to presume social housing tenants are like that.

listermint · 22-08-2021 1:14pm

I do genuinely enjoy these threads where the folks who are firmly anti social housing or housing assistance and want people to go live where they can afford. These folks , how are they going to get served their poxy latte, or their cold pint. Or their silly fancy wrapz or their crappy deliveroo order. Or their healthcare assistant or their Gaurd dealing with their parking compliant or their teaching assistant for their children or their childcare assistant down their local creche.

It constantly amazes me how people are so utterly self centred and stupid that they can't see past their own front door.

This state was built on socialised housing country wide. We would not be where we are today for the programs of social housing country wide in the 40s 50s 60s and 70s.

What these thickos should be more upset about is housing being bought wholesale by foreign entities for leasing back to private people at a ridiculous premium or back to local authorities at again a ridiculous premium. That's the core to our housing issues.

It is most certainly not providing housing to people on low wages being our core issue today. Get real or else.... Get no services for you . Rant not over.

ohnohedidnt · 22-08-2021 1:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788165#Comment_117788165

I grew up in socialized housing, the place was a real kip...still is, drugs, crime, regular petrol bombings recently. My parents worked hard to get out of it and we move to our own house, I've had crappy jobs myself, making the lattes and wraps, my job wasn't near my house though, I had to use public transport and even thumb a lift sometimes, it was horrendous, I really should write a book about it. But then I got an education then a professional job, and after working for 13 years bought my own house, a similar story to most people who buy their own house I'd imagine.

If I'd known that I was entitled to live in a houses worth many hundred of thousands of euros, just because I was making the wraps and the lattes for people with professional jobs I would have stayed doing that.

Socialized housing should be stepping stone for people trying to better their lives, handing people houses worth the same as those with high earning jobs and saying it's necessary is a bit of stretch.

Maybe the thickos aren't upset about the foreign investment in Irish housing because that's what was basically supporting the construction industry for so many years when not much else was happening, and in the unlikely event that we ever experience another recession, we might actually need that foreign investment again

Fred Cryton · 22-08-2021 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788165#Comment_117788165

Well considering no other country on Earth hands €770,000 homes to people refusing to work, then you must think every other country on the planet is full of "thickos" except the Irish!

22-08-2021 2:31pm

The investment companies are buying in private estates too to lease to the Council. They too object to paying 400k for 2 bed apartments when they can pick them up for 250k.

I just checked one apartment which I am very familiar with which was sold in 2018 and it was sold to Davy Platform ICAV, an asset management umbrella fund established to provide Social Housing to local authorities. Source: land registry folio.

So long as the Councils continue to enter multi-decade guaranteed profit agreements with the Residential Property Investment Companies those Companies will continue to outbid working people for homes.

It is Government policy working against the interests of the Public.

22-08-2021 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788243#Comment_117788243

But you did know, because you grew up in social housing. You are well aware that you can get housing assistance of you need it or if you are low paid or dont work.

you choose different for yourself. I'm not sure where the jealousy comes from in Irish people for social housing. If it's so great to get a 'free house' then go do it. You know differently, so you choose differently.

listermint · 22-08-2021 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788243#Comment_117788243

Cool story bro,

I also grew up in council housing and we also moved out. The area isn't a kip isn't full of drugs and provided and still provides housing for thousands of working people. From bus drivers to school cleaners .

My grand parents also got social housing in the 50s and same story there.

But it would be the usual speel from the folks like yourself who thing foreign investment is propping up the building industry. It's not. Theyre buying stuff out from under private people. Entire estates being purchased off the plans for rental only. You seem to think that's good. It's evident you don't actually have a grasp of the subject matter.

And all the gribbing in the world about social housing isn't going to fix the market where wealth funds are operating world wide hoovering up housing stock. This isn't an Irish phenomenon it's everywhere. The fact lower income people can't even buy a house if they wanted to is because of this policy which you have an abject hard on for..

Gas, cutting the nose off to spite your face. Maybe we should just put people in camps. Many many camps.

Suggest you do some reading up on whats actually going on in the Irish housing market. Might make your commentary less me feiney and more balanced

listermint · 22-08-2021 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788462#Comment_117788462

Councils are being hampered by having to provide housing and government policies actively working against it.

Net result is the tax payer is robbed blind . The government are the issue here. Other international centres are taking action.

The fact that we are now the highest place in Europe in terms of overall cost of living isn't by accident.

But it's people on the lowest wage that are the issue. Lol.

22-08-2021 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787656#Comment_117787656

Well, from experience I can tell you this is a load of bollocks.

I am an owner in an older established private estate where a number of houses over the last 5-10 years have been bought up by the council. Plenty of other renters too, though not sure if they are leased to the council, on HAP with private landlords or whatever. Not that its any of my business.

There have been no increases in my insurance costs. No "greater exposure" to criminal elements or discernable increase in anti-social behaviour and house prices in the area have been going up steadily not down! No problem selling, most go sale agreed within a few days / weeks of the for sale signs going up.

But then, it wouldn't be Boards if there wasn't an ongoing thread bashing social housing and demonising all who qualify for it - working or otherwise. It seems your damned if you do or damned if you don't. If you're an average wage earner that doesn't qualify for a mortgage for a bank, you;re not trying hard enough, apparently.

Personally, I think they should bring back the Shared Ownership Scheme. I wonder how those who bash everyone who qualifies for a place on the housing list simply because they don't earn enough, would cope with the idea of homes half privately owned and half council rented.

Jmc25 · 22-08-2021 3:11pm

The situation is a real mess and the way social housing is currently being provided shows the lack of joined up thinking on housing across government.

The state needs to provide social housing. It has needed to do that since it's foundation and will continue to need to do that. As a society we benefit from social housing.

But while historically the state has added to the housing supply by building houses directly, at the moment they are simply competing with potential purchasers for a bigger slice of the same supply.

This leads to justified outrage - "I've just been outbid by the council!!", "I've spent 400k on a new house and I live in a council estate". "This guy who never worked a day in his life just got a house in Rathmines and I can't afford to safe for a deposit because my rent is too high".

What an out and out mess.

22-08-2021 3:13pm

Loueze hasn't figured out that their offspring won't be able to afford to purchase on the private market when the time comes to fly the nest.

Corporations plan in decades, not months or years.

Pete_Cavan · 22-08-2021 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787994#Comment_117787994

Developers are not forced to sell cheaply, Part V purchases are supposed to be at cost but that is difficult to determine and the developer always does a bit better than that.

The idea that developers would drop prices on the remaining units if they weren't required to sell units to the Local Authority is naive in the extreme. They will always sell at the highest price they can, nothing to do with Part V.

Darc19 · 22-08-2021 4:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787656#Comment_117787656

I don't think you really grasp what social housing is.

In a way many of us benefit from people in social housing - care staff in particular, people in necessary but low skilled jobs - cleaning staff, manufacturing staff, some retail staff and many other sectors.

They will not travel from westmeath to Dublin for €11/hour.

Many in social housing work, but their earning power simply would not allow them to live in or near the areas they work. Current maximum net income limit in Dublin is about €36,000 to qualify and you would pay rent.

Now, I personally think there should be size limits on social housing at 100sqm and 3 bedrooms and only in certain cases it should be 4 bedrooms. And I also think that there should not be social housing within high end estates as the money spent on some houses could buy 2 or 3 houses elsewhere, but i simply don't buy the scaremongering "houses will lose value" statements

22-08-2021 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788307#Comment_117788307

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786119#Comment_117786119

Link to the article on the homes being leased at Beachpark for social housing. 1 and 2 bedroom apartments.

No €770k houses involved.

Cool the jets.

listermint · 22-08-2021 4:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789134#Comment_117789134

Away with you removing outrage with facts

22-08-2021 4:49pm

Name all the bad estates in the country.

Now divide them into two sides, the private and the social.

Which one is full and which one is empty?

22-08-2021 4:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789134#Comment_117789134

They remain in the estate that people have paid 770 though so the knock on effect remains to those that paid that amount regardless

22-08-2021 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788689#Comment_117788689

lol. Have you seen her posts? Social housing all the way. Loueze thinks you should never have to work for anything (and in this country, she's right).

enricoh · 22-08-2021 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788615#Comment_117788615

Eh , who are the foreign funds buying all the houses renting them out to ? Oh yeah- the councils . Maybe do a bit of reading up yourself.

22-08-2021 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789062#Comment_117789062

The confusion you're having, is that people in social housing who go to work are not the problem. Nobody has any issue with a couple on a low income getting a house. People DO have issue with Scummy McKnackbag who has a conviction list the length of his arm and was in court only last week, getting a new 3 bed semi D handed to him.

Mary and John working in Tesco full time serving sandwiches might never make enough money to buy a house of their own, and the state stepping in to provide something decent there is not on anyone's radar as an issue, at all. However, there should be a realistic limit to what they're given. The value of a social house should be capped. Social housing does not belong in affluent areas. Decent, safe areas, yes, but places that house people who have worked very hard to get a high quality place, and paid a lot of money privately for the privilege, no.

The real problem with social housing is that crime is disproportionately committed by people in social housing. Anti social behaviour is disproportionately prevalent in social housing estates. All the nuisances of the day, are generally from social housing. Scramblers, loud music, litter, graffiti, etc. are all much more common in social housing.

This wouldn't be an issue if the Councils/Gardai tackled it, but they never do, which is another reason why no one wants to be anywhere near a social housing tenant - if you get lumped in next to a bad one, your property is worth nothing overnight, and there's absolutely nothing that will be done about your quality of life going to pieces.

There's a multi-generational drug-dealing, never-working family near me, and i seen on facebook the other day that one of this family, and their friend, are both after being given new houses in a development much nicer than where they currently live (they've ruined the area). They're both younger than me (neither have hit 30) and they now both have their own houses, which they will use to torment their paying neighbours, and they both never worked an honest day in their life. I know lots of people working full time jobs that will be probably 40 by the time they scrape enough together for a deposit. It's completely unfair.

That's the issue with social housing. If the requirements to be eligible for social housing were that you had to have an income from employment, and could have no criminal convictions, then nobody would care about it.

Don't buy in a new estate

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