Is Washing Maching Outside Allowed in Rental?

Conor.d2 · 28-11-2020 1:44pm #1

Hi
My neighbour rents out their property and has installed a washing machine in their back yard, outdoors. The tenants use it every day and it makes a huge amount of noise which is very annoying for me.
I understand that the tenants need to wash and dry their clothes but dont understand why the landlord cant install inside, perhaps saving space indoors.
What are my rights around this? Are electrical goods allowed outside, and could it be a fire hazard if outside? Can I appeal to any legislative body around this?

Thanks
Fergal

28-11-2020 2:04pm

I'm not a legal expert but from reading the information on citizens information it doesn't appear that he is breaking any rules in regards to having a washing machine outside.

Below is from the citizens information website

"Laundry, food preparation and food storage
The Regulations require private landlords to provide tenants with access to:

A washing machine

A clothes-dryer if the dwelling does not have a private garden or yard"

Mrs OBumble · 28-11-2020 5:01pm

This is not an issue relating to it being a rental: could be equally annoying if they lived there.

Investigate it from a planning perspective: does the planning permission for the house include outside laundry facilities?

bluelamp · 28-11-2020 5:16pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Investigate it from a planning perspective: does the planning permission for the house include outside laundry facilities?

Ahh stop - It's a washing machine. In a private garden. The planning authority aren't going to care.

It's hardly sitting out exposed - it's obviously in an enclosure or a shed. It wouldn't last a week if it wasn't.

First step would be talk to the landlord - before doing anything. The vast majority aren't going to want issues with the neighbours. Theres a good chance he doesn't even know it's annoying anyone.

Edgware · 28-11-2020 7:58pm

Conor.d2 wrote: »

Hi
My neighbour rents out their property and has installed a washing machine in their back yard, outdoors. The tenants use it every day and it makes a huge amount of noise which is very annoying for me.
I understand that the tenants need to wash and dry their clothes but dont understand why the landlord cant install inside, perhaps saving space indoors.
What are my rights around this? Are electrical goods allowed outside, and could it be a fire hazard if outside? Can I appeal to any legislative body around this

Thanks
Fergal

Is he allowed use a lawnmower?

ted1 · 28-11-2020 8:38pm

Would it not break if Left outside ? Ignoring the electronics, one night of bad frost and the water in the machine would freeze and burst

Del2005 · 29-11-2020 12:12pm

It most likely just needs to be levelled correctly if it's making a lot of noise. Washing machines are designed to be used indoors so unless there's something wrong with it it shouldn't be noisy once it's setup correctly.

Conor.d2 · 29-11-2020 12:49pm

Thanks for all your comments. To add some context...
- The washer/dryer is located outdoors in a small yard amongst a congested terrace of small houses, there is no garden. It is not inside a shed or enclosure but seems to be operating fine but noisily, every day for 2-3 hours per day with a whining noise for ages when the cycle is over. It has been there now for a long time (throughout frost etc.)
- The landlord is known locally as a slumlord, and doesnt care about neighbours and will not engage in communication about any issues.
Hence, why Im asking about what my rights are, and how I can appeal to a 'higher authority'
The facts remain that the noise is a nuisance to me (despite what comments have been made above), and the landlord won't engage with me (so I cant ask them to change the settings etc..).

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-11-2020 1:01pm

Third party complaint to the RTB but I don't see it going very far - but then maybe he'll get an inspection or something and have to move it.

Edit: You could possibly become a pest to the council's housing department trying to prompt an inspection.

Graces7 · 29-11-2020 1:10pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Third party complaint to the RTB but I don't see it going very far - but then maybe he'll get an inspection or something and have to move it.

Edit: You could possibly become a pest to the council's housing department trying to prompt an inspection.

I doubt they would "bite" as that would then apply to eg a lawnmower or power tool? OP I DO greatly sympathise . Noise is so invasive.

Samuel T. Cogley · 29-11-2020 1:13pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I doubt they would "bite" as that would then apply to eg a lawnmower or power tool?

Yeah, I think you're right and if I'm honest if it's during the day I think the OP is probably not being reasonable. That said I'm not on the ground and I'd hope the neighbour wasn't out with the lawn mower everyday!

I just think the washing machine is probably the tip of the iceberg in relation to possible health and safety issues.

Claw Hammer · 29-11-2020 2:36pm

The issue here is noise pollution or nuisance, not the use of a washing machine per se.

29-11-2020 2:40pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The issue here is noise pollution or nuisance, not the use of a washing machine per se.

Noise pollution, from a washing machine?

Mrs OBumble · 29-11-2020 3:02pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The issue here is noise pollution or nuisance, not the use of a washing machine per se.

Indeed. And the operation of an electrical appliance ( designed for indoor use) outside.

The rental aspect is irrelevant: operating your washing machine for 2-3 cycles per day is not ASB.

Claw Hammer · 30-11-2020 12:19pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Indeed. And the operation of an electrical appliance ( designed for indoor use) outside.

The rental aspect is irrelevant: operating your washing machine for 2-3 cycles per day is not ASB.

Who said it was ASB. It is either nuisance and or noise pollution.

Claw Hammer · 30-11-2020 12:19pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Noise pollution, from a washing machine?

You can have noise pollution from a piano, why not a washing machine?

30-11-2020 12:22pm

First thought re loud whining at end of cycle is that the bearings or pump need a look

After that, not much.

TBH, if it's during the day and outside, I'd swap with you. My neighbour does his washing at 3am, above our bedroom!

30-11-2020 12:42pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You can have noise pollution from a piano, why not a washing machine?

Looking at it that way, all noise would be considered a pollutant. Aren’t complaints normally associated with decibel level, and the time the noise occurs?

Claw Hammer · 30-11-2020 2:04pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Looking at it that way, all noise would be considered a pollutant. Aren’t complaints normally associated with decibel level, and the time the noise occurs?

All noise is potentially a pollutant, it is a matter of showing that it reaches an unacceptable level in order to get relief.

jimmycrackcorm · 30-11-2020 2:39pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I doubt they would "bite" as that would then apply to eg a lawnmower or power tool? OP I DO greatly sympathise . Noise is so invasive.

While we're in a roll, there's a main road right next to my house, so I'd like to join this noise pollution thing about the traffic passing by.

30-11-2020 4:37pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

While we're in a roll, there's a main road right next to my house, so I'd like to join this noise pollution thing about the traffic passing by.

Did you drop in and have a word with the traffic ?

Pkiernan · 30-11-2020 6:03pm

Op.

Jump the fence. Put a couple of bricks in the machine and set it on spin cycle.
It'll make some noise for a while and then it'll be quiet!

Joking.

Graces7 · 30-11-2020 6:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

First thought re loud whining at end of cycle is that the bearings or pump need a look

After that, not much.

TBH, if it's during the day and outside, I'd swap with you. My neighbour does his washing at 3am, above our bedroom!

OUCH! Now THAT is truly anti -social...

Graces7 · 30-11-2020 6:07pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

While we're in a roll, there's a main road right next to my house, so I'd like to join this noise pollution thing about the traffic passing by.

Yeah and here the tide starts crashing the rocks on the shore right behind my home!!!!! Whenever it pleases, night or day.

30-11-2020 7:14pm

I’ve tried talking to the moo cows next door, they just won’t take me seriously. It’s noise pollution in addition to air pollution.

beauf · 01-12-2020 3:09pm

Do people think the sound of the sea = the sound of a noisy washing machine?

beauf · 01-12-2020 3:10pm

Conor.d2 wrote: »

Hi
My neighbour rents out their property and has installed a washing machine in their back yard, outdoors. The tenants use it every day and it makes a huge amount of noise which is very annoying for me.
I understand that the tenants need to wash and dry their clothes but dont understand why the landlord cant install inside, perhaps saving space indoors.
What are my rights around this? Are electrical goods allowed outside, and could it be a fire hazard if outside? Can I appeal to any legislative body around this?

Thanks
Fergal

Maybe hes crammed so many inside there isn't room. Which might be why the washing machine is going a lot.

Graces7 · 01-12-2020 3:14pm

beauf wrote: »

Do people think the sound of the sea = the sound of a noisy washing machine?

When the shore is very rocky and the waves are lifting the rocks as the tide comes in and crashing them against other rocks it gets very loud. When the ocean is right at the back of the house...

NB we were just being lighter hearted..

beauf · 01-12-2020 3:16pm

Graces7 wrote: »

When the shore is very rocky and the waves are lifting the rocks as the tide comes in and crashing them against other rocks it gets very loud. When the ocean is right at the back of the house...

NB we were just being lighter hearted..

Stressed out people are a good laugh I suppose.

Graces7 · 01-12-2020 3:17pm

beauf wrote: »

Maybe hes crammed so many inside there isn't room. Which might be why the washing machine is going a lot.

Or just using an outdoor tap to avoid paying to get an indoor connection? I have an unused washing machine for that reason; cannot get anyone to plumb it in . That makes sense of the outdoor machine, and near an outside drain? Long flex...

Graces7 · 01-12-2020 3:19pm

beauf wrote: »

Stressed out people are a good laugh I suppose.

Ah come on now; we were laughing at ourselves! Not at the OP. :rolleyes: And making a point that we all have ambient noise that can be burdensome.

Over and out from me ….. Off to …..

elperello · 02-12-2020 6:59pm

Conor.d2 wrote: »

Thanks for all your comments. To add some context...
- The washer/dryer is located outdoors in a small yard amongst a congested terrace of small houses, there is no garden. It is not inside a shed or enclosure but seems to be operating fine but noisily, every day for 2-3 hours per day with a whining noise for ages when the cycle is over. It has been there now for a long time (throughout frost etc.)
- The landlord is known locally as a slumlord, and doesnt care about neighbours and will not engage in communication about any issues.
Hence, why Im asking about what my rights are, and how I can appeal to a 'higher authority'
The facts remain that the noise is a nuisance to me (despite what comments have been made above), and the landlord won't engage with me (so I cant ask them to change the settings etc..).

That is a dangerous installation.
It's a hazard to anyone using it and could result in electrocution.

JustAThought · 02-12-2020 7:10pm

I’d +1 for a case to the PRtB on the grounds of disruption due to noise - is the metl of the machine or undercarriage rollicking around against cement or a stone wall?

Also, if it is electrical and not houses in a properly insulated shed it couid also pose a fire risk. As the landlord under the PTRB is obliged to keep the general house/appartment insurance going this outdoor electricial modification may not have been installed by a registered electrician, so may not be properly earthed and secure to use (outdoors) and pose a H&S risk to his tenants Nd to you. As the modification may not be compliant with safety insiltillations/standards it may also invalidate the property insurance - thus putting the LL in breach of PTRB tegulations and putting ypur property at risk from fire damage. Now you have noise & nuisance complaint, h&s compliance case and PTRB breech of t&c case. Raise one or all and the PTRB will be onto the LL who will fix it like a hot snot.

Mrs OBumble · 03-12-2020 12:01am

JustAThought wrote: »

....As the landlord under the PTRB is obliged to keep the general house/appartment insurance going

Where does this requirement for a landlord to keep the property insured come from?

We all know it's a good idea. But is it a requirement?

Graces7 · 03-12-2020 5:59am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where does this requirement for a landlord to keep the property insured come from?

We all know it's a good idea. But is it a requirement?

Interesting point.

OP the safety angle might be the best approach to the council as if they are informed they will be more likely to take action to avoid being taken to court.
Stress the safety aspect?

Try it?

Claw Hammer · 03-12-2020 2:19pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where does this requirement for a landlord to keep the property insured come from?

We all know it's a good idea. But is it a requirement?

It is a requirement. It is in the Residential Tenancies Act.

Conor.d2 · 21-08-2021 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/115467236#Comment_115467236

How would one measure the decibel levels, and who would I report this to?

Spanish Eyes · 21-08-2021 11:41am

Just wondered if you have spoken to the tenants at all? The LL might not care, but the tenants are potentially exposed to electrical faults - and water (rain) and electricity do not mix. They might not care either though.

I think you are on a hiding to nothing re the noise, it is notoriously difficult to get a resolution. Some people's noise is other people's normal. I'd go the safety standards/dangerous positioning route myself via RTB.

21-08-2021 11:53am

It’s a noise pollution issue, but it sounds like the tenants should be putting pressure on the landlord to sort it out.

A washing machine shouldn’t be installed outdoors and they’re not normally noisy. If it’s making that much noise, there’s something seriously wrong with it.

It’s unlikely to be a fire hazard. That’s not a reasonable statement. If there’s an RCD installed (wiring from anything past about 1980) it’s also not a shock hazard, but it’s amazing it’s working at all if it’s being rained on. They’re not IP rated for any amount of spray with water.

I’ve seen washing machines installed outside in very dry places, southern Spain for example but in semi sheltered areas like under balcony rooves or under shelters, but Ireland is basically continuously wet, prone to driving rain, drizzle, cool enough for regular dew and very unsuitable for that kind of installation.

Your best approach might be to have a friendly chat with the tenants and offer to support a complaint to the landlord.

I doubt they’re happy with a setup like that either.

moceri · 21-08-2021 12:03pm

If the washing machine is being used outdoors, exposed to all weathers as you describe, then there may be a potential electrical hazard due to water ingress. This could form the basis of a complaint to Safe Electric Ireland. https://safeelectric.ie/complaints-procedure/ who could compel the landlord to make the installation compliant.

21-08-2021 12:11pm

Safe Electric is a regulatory body for electricians. The only complaint you can make to them is about work carried out by a registered electrical contractor. They don’t have a role in general building inspections.

It’s certainly not a safe electrical installation as you’re describing it, but it’s a private property and short of a complaint to the council there’s no other way of dealing with it.

In the event of the machine causing an injury (electric shock most likely) whoever installed it could also be legally responsible.

The problem is it’s basically an issue that needs to be disputed between the tenants and the landlord. You’re a third party and the only complaint you can reasonably make is about noise pollution.

You should talk to the tenants and ask what’s going on and see if you can assist in a complaint to the landlord.

They could also take a complaint to the RTB.

It’s a dangerous way to install a washing machine. My concern on the electrical side is that it’s still running and the RCD hasn’t detected any leakage to earth, which might indicate that there’s no RCD or it’s been somehow bypassed. That would mean there’s a serious shock hazard.

In a modern post-1980s installation, the sockets are protected with a 30mA RCD. That will trip if there’s any small current leakage to earth.

It’s also possible that the machine is sheltered, and you’re not seeing how it’s installed very clearly. Eg if it were under a clear plastic roof etc with full shelter, it’s likely ok, if a bit crude.

So you could be better off talking to the tenants directly.

Noise pollution is an issue you need to raise with your city or county council. They’re the enforcement authority for that.

drogon. · 21-08-2021 3:55pm

Has the washing machine been outside for a long time or is this a recent thing ?

Surprised that it will last long in our climate, if it is just outside without any shelter.

21-08-2021 5:32pm

That’s what surprises me too. It wouldn’t be possible to put a washing machine outside here. The electronic and electrical components would be utterly wrecked after a few days of bad weather and the RCD would trip repeatedly if the machine had water in its casing.

Im suspecting the machine is outdoors but under adequate shelter. It’s not that unusual for a machine to be in a “lean to” or similar structure.

We had a washer and dryer in an enclosed, covered yard for many years without any issues and they certainly weren’t noisy.

if the machine is making loud whining noises the bearings are gone. A washing machine normally makes no more than a putting noise and modern ones use AC motors that don’t have brushes, so they are even very silent on spin. If they’re on a concrete surface they will typically be far, far quieter than on a a wooden floor too.

Is Washing Maching Outside Allowed in Rental?

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