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There will be a rise in incel related terror attacks

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,434 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Y’know, if I’d been challenged to pick a poster who might type that, you’d have been right at the top of a list of one. ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭PicardWithHair


    Gas the way people will complain about the imaginary far right in Ireland yet defend the absolute scumbags that make up antifa.

    <edit cant post links, IT article about antifa luas attack >

    I went to school with one of those scrotes, he could have gone either way,far right or far left, he wasn't the most open minded chap and quite racist and homophobic too - but this fits the narrative so all good.

    Post edited by PicardWithHair on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Do incels actually exist in the real world? Moral panic for the internet age.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,198 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    ...

    Post edited by Esel on

    Not your ornery onager



  • Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People who are involuntarily celibate? Of course they exist. And always have.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Yet more proof of my theory that there are few things that can't be cured by a good ride.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    We humans think we are a lot smarter than what we are. Ultimately everything we do, the very core reason of why we do anything is to enhance our ability to mate.

    I am watching Cricket right now. Why do men like playing sport so much? To beat the other person? Why? To become dominant over them? Why? To become the alpha male? Why? Because the alpha male will mate with more women.

    The Taliban are roaming through Afghanistan now, full of young single males, conquering cities. Why are they so enthusiastic? To gain personal recognition, To dominate others and become a dominant figure. Why? To get themselves a wife or wives.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Absolute nonsense, every single letter you typed is absolute nonsense.

    Your particular motivations in life are not applicable to everyone else's.

    I'm obviously only posting this as it increases my chances of mating. Have you got a Youtube channel by any chance?

    You Sir, are bananas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,992 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Yeah a lot of those guys have three or four wives


    Untitled Image




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  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just more excuse making really - and the kind of navel gazing that requires not looking around the real world and seeing most people of all shapes sizes and types are pairing off all the time. Are some people left on the outside of this and remain single - sure they are. But the vast majority of people - tall and short - thin and morbidly obese - and more are all pairing off every day.

    Sitting around doing nothing but moan about the genetic hand of cards you have been dealt is an option of course. I was certainly that person myself 20 or so years ago. Man I was miserable. All the time. And I blamed this on my genes. My siblings and wider circle of acquaintances all being better than me. The entire female gender wanting things I specifically did not have (money and height and so forth).

    I even blamed things that were ridiculous like you do. Like penis size. How could penis size be causing any issue if you are not even getting to the stage anyone is actually seeing your penis? Basically the only person penis size was affecting was me. It was not affecting anyone else - their choices - or their impression of me. How could it? But it still seemed like an issue in my confused brain at the time like it is in yours.

    In the end I copped myself on and got off the couch and I bettered myself. Will that work for everyone? Probably not. Will a person know until they try? Of course not. And even if it had not worked and I remained a forever single Incel it would not have mattered. Because doing it still make me feel better about myself - happier with life in general - and basically all around improved in my health abilities and well being. And it put me in a place where other men who needed help of guidance were able to come to me and I was able to help them improve themselves too.

    And none of the things I can not change about myself - like my penis size or height - have come into any of that.

    It was certainly better than sitting around imagining incels so demented by their single-hood that they are going to cause terror acts in greater and greater numbers.

    jmlads post above strikes me as mostly nonsense too. But one thing not entirely nonsense is the guidance we give our children. I think the whole "boys are not being taught to be men" is somewhat nonsense - as this whole men/women division is not as clear as people like to pretend. I have asked on a few threads in a few areas of forums what it even means to "be a man" or "real man" or "man up" and no one was able to answer - or the answers they give were how to be a good person regardless of your gender. I hold out little hope anyone on this thread will be able to do much better there.

    But even if the idea of "teaching boys to be men" is nonsense - what teaching and guidance are we giving them and to what end? I think that certainly can be looked at and questioned. The recent Joe Rogan interview with Jason Wilson is wonderful for example. And what is Wilson teaching boys? Almost how not to be men in terms of how they treat their emotions given the history of how men have been there. He is teaching them things like martial arts. But he is also teaching them how to cry and express their emotions and love and nurturing side and recognise they can be just as nurturing as men and fathers as any woman can. Are the people who want "boys to be men" and have "masculine traits" including crying - being in touch with their emotions - and being nurturing and caring? If not - then their impression of what it means to "be a man" is much different to mine. What are these "masculine traits" women are developing exactly???

    So let's by all means improve the guidance we give boys. I am all for that. But let's be careful with what we think "teach them to be men" actually means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,030 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    We have a self entitlement problem. Maybe they should try some humility.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    What's a beour?

    Assuming that it's a normal-looking woman, or better than normal, I think the answer, as someone said, is "expectations". These guys are nothing special (and that's probably being kind) but they seem to feel they have a right to "have" a woman who will skivvy for them as well as being great looking and up for sex whenever they want. Someone from a porn film, IOW.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I fear the line in the sand between humility and self hatred is not always clear to some. After all when you read a post like the OP going on about every trait he either hates about himself - or where he feels inferior to other men in our society - he is clearly not suffering from an excess in pride, arrogance, hubris or narcissism. Self entitlement and privilege might be an issue there of course as you say. So can pure laziness. But not always.

    But it is possible to remove self hatred from ones world-view without suffering from arrogance or narcissism or hubris. One can have pride and self confidence - and still have a wealth of humility.

    You can be aware of your strengths and limitations. You can lean into your strengths - and push your limitations - and take great pride and confidence from that. But still maintain a lot of humility and stoicism (traditional meaning not more current meaning). And there is a lot of well being to be found there.

    But a lot of people have given up. And they justify giving up by creating nonsense narratives about how the deck is stacked against them and it is all hopeless. It is a mind state of "I will never succeed so why even try" which becomes over time a more toxic "I was doomed never to succeed from the outset because society and women are all aligned to be exactly against success for someone like me".

    I have seen it in people around me over the years. I saw it in myself quite deeply once too. I just decided to get up off my ass and not listen to that voice in my head. And that voice is not gone. Maybe it never goes. But I control it now - not it me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,103 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    @jmlad2020

    Perhaps nature will do its business (or is already at play) and offset the future Incel population and turn them gay, maybe then these lads can get some action. Just a wild thought.

    Don't be trying to make these lads the gay's problem. There is a cohort of incels who blame their lack of sex on females solely for their gender not appreciating all those wonderful cretins clear sexual appeal and riding them whenever needed. These lads couldn't pull a man for precisely the same reason they can't pull a woman. Noone, noone is owed sex as a condition of their just "being" and if one chooses to treat people as objects, and lay blame for being ostracized on the world rather than having a modicum of self awareness? Well I'd be fairly sure gayness won't help their cause and I can't see a rush to add "asshole" to the pride flag 🤔 no matter how cool that could be 😝

    The problem isn't women, the problem is that a cohort of people are basically becoming western Otaku. That cohort have "socialized" but only with others of thei predilections and it's a self reinforcing circle of stupidity. The lack of female interaction is now not only never their own fault. They now have a support group who agree and will reinforce the notion that women are avoiding and withholding sex, rather than the simple truth that they are quite often choosing a lifestyle and an approach to people that is an antithesis of how to engage with people and women in particular.

    It's very much a culture of blaming the bitches and chads, then retreating to the incel safe spaces to be told they are right.

    Also as @endacl has said... If I had to point out who on boards could write such a self indulged and whiney OP? The OP would have been my pick too.

    That he has chosen to lay his thoughts out and seek to not only justify the Plymouth incident but, also to claim it's likely here? Would honestly lead me to believe it's time to report them to an appropriate authority and hope that perhaps some kind of intervention can be made.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,108 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa



    Interesting post there. Maybe rather than "entitlement", it would be better say they feel they "need" a beautiful woman, because their lack of feelings of inherent self worth, lead them to judge their own, and other men's, value based on what they possess, particularly women?


    I say possess because that's the point: a relationship with a woman in their eyes is more about how it makes them look to the rest of society. In fact they probably have no real concept of a relationship as being about two people, nor perhaps of a woman as being a person in her own right.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    This is not really a new thing, just a new name. Men who for whatever reason lack the social/interpersonal skills to have normal relationships with the people around them, and instead see the world as some form of rule-driven game where you get to have sex and be successful if you play by the rules.

    From their point of view, they're playing by the rules, but still losing anyway, while others who are apparently not playing by the rules, are winning. The absurdity of this belief aside, it's easy to see why someone would become frustrated with the world.

    It's obviously not a simple fix, it needs to be caught early on, resetting young mens' expectations of life. Most of it comes from a place of misogynism; women are a prize to be seized, chattel for ones' personal gratification, an entitlement.

    Peoples' self-awareness is often lacking too. While one may have low self-esteem and feel like they're ugly, fat and unworthy, they also lack the ability to be self-critical. These issues - in their mind - are caused by external factors. Others standing in their way or forcing them to be like they are. Like that moron last week who murdered his mother because he blamed her for his failures in life.

    Their issues are 100% their own. All of their problems, they have created for themselves, and they perpetuate themselves. Creating narratives in their head about imaginary "status pills" and blaming their lack of sex on "vapid sexuality". Somehow there are other very ordinary and unremarkable men getting into fulfilling relationships around them, but nevertheless the problem must be society. It can't be their own problems holding them back. Nosir.

    In short, we need to be spending as much on mental health as we do on physical health. All of the "take care of your mental health" messaging is great, but ultimately fairly pointless without the structures to back it up. We're dismantling the stigma around admitting that you're not well, but we're still leaving families to have to self-manage mental illnesses that require specific treatment.

    It's like saying, "Don't be afraid to talk to your friends if you think you've broken your leg", but providing nowhere to go to actually have a qualified professional look at your leg, put it in a cast and arrange physio afterwards.



  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Indeed volchitsa. It is funny when I look back on being what people would call a self hating incel now. When I decided to get myself out of that emotional black hole I turned into what people today would identify as MGTOW. I was MGTOW long before I ever heard the concept - perhaps before the movement was even a thing.

    But the idea of "needing" a women to improve their self worth is likely yes. And deeply toxic. When we tie our well being and self worth into externalities like that (what is often referred to as "an external locus of evaluation") a lot of toxic things can come out of that. Jealousy and controlling or abusive behaviours to your partner for one. The needyness that it can lead to is also as dopamine based as any other addiction. As such it can also tend to escalate. So needing constant affirmations of affection and love and respect and so on which is unrealistic in most relationships.

    Certainly my relationship for example makes a lot of men look at me differently. The word "legend" gets thrown around a lot and many others. And I have to be be cognisant of that and not let it give me undue opinions about myself. My relationship is a big part of my life but it does not define me - my worth - or my status. Nor should it. And it makes me no better or worse than any one else. Even if they think it does.

    If my relationship ended tomorrow due to break down or deaths - I would be no less (or more) a person of worth than I am today. I would still not be better than anyone and I would not see anyone as being better than me. Which is in a single sentence the entire world view I try to base my day to day well being and goals and agendas upon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think the internet has definitely exaccerpated the problem. I see the spree killer in England was thrown off reddit, didn't they have a sub reddit for incels?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    This reads to me like a threat. You state there will be a rise of incel terror attacks, and then give a list of personal issues. Are you planning something?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭randd1


    Have these weirdo's not heard of internet dating sites, female prosthetic masturbation toys or prostitutes?

    Surely they would solve a lot of the problems?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The "incel" thing was all started pretty innocently; by a woman believe it or not; ultimately as a support group for individuals who found themselves unlucky in love.

    As typically happens online, the loudest and angriest members of this group continuously warped the purpose of incel forums, driving out anyone seeking actual support and discussion. Eventually this warps the entire concept itself, until it became basically a banner for self-pitying, misogynistic heterosexual men (almost entirely middle-class and white) to go online and shout about how much they've been wronged by the world and the root of their problems are caused by women not knowing their place.

    As it become more and more extreme and they started glorifying and celebrating violence carried out by other incels, they started getting kicked off mainstream platforms like Reddit.

    At this stage, there's nothing innocent about the "culture" in it, nor nothing therapeutic about being part of it. Any young man who self-identifies as an incel or claims to be part of the incel group, should be treated like someone saying they're a KKK member. It is a gigantic red flag that he needs some form of help or should be on a watchlist of some kind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I agree but that is easy for me to say as a middle aged man with plenty of life experience. I don't base my self worth on or feel terribly insecure about money because....I have money.

    Try telling that to a struggling 18-25 year old man who feels he is missing out on those things you listed and plus has raging hormones. And in the case of the Plymouth shooter, also has autism and ADHD.

    Also, these insecurities don't just come from within, men are routinely sneered at for everything from being short to living with their parents. The fact that a man may statistically be of average height and the fact that housing costs are absurd are irrelevant to those doing the sneering. Also, if a man is below average height and tries to focus on some aspect that he can improve (e.g. bodybuilding) he'll inevitably be sneered at for "compensating".

    Then there is the utter bullshit that because most CEOs are white males, that all white males are privileged so if they have career difficulties, it is all their own fault. Losers! I think with some incels it is not just that they're not getting laid (although that is a big part of it), there's a bigger picture.

    The Plymouth shooter did seem to be trying to improve himself, he had a job and lifted weights and was good at it from what I saw of his videos before they were taken down. He also made some sense in some of the videos I saw with his comments about wealth, luck and working hard. Some help and encouragement might have stopped him from doing what he did. As usual, the media focuses on the wrong things, gun control in the UK is already some of the strictest in the world but mental health services are deficient. He could have done as much or more damage with a car, knife and petrol bombs.

    As for the Op and a rise in incel related attack they are very rare and I would imagine will remain so. Internet forums where posters say what they'd like do to women are not real life. Most people who engage in actual real life violence have no difficulties getting laid and in fact many women are attracted to violent thugs. Also, certain groups (e.g. travellers) are a far bigger threat to the average person than incels are, maybe travellers should be on a "watch list"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭mct1


    "in fact many women are attracted to violent thugs." Well, there you go. Maybe the OP can add violent thuggery to his list of desirable male qualities - should be easier to achieve than the rest anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,056 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Are incels not just "losers"?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Do the Japanese herbivore men not count? Do black men not ever get into the same situation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Since "incel" is now a specific term in western culture, it seems a bit ridiculous to group it together with another unrelated term from a different culture. The Japanese grass-eaters are closer to a MGTOW idea anyway.

    I'm sure black men do find themselves in the same situation, but for whatever are not generally drawn to online enclaves to complain about it.

    You're taking offence to me pointing out a simple fact; that it is a very clear demographic who make up incels, despite the overall issue not being exclusive to that demographic. There are men and woman across all countries & cultures who have difficulty making sexual encounters. Yet incels believe themselves uniquely afflicted by this.

    It suggests to me that there is another factor at play which results in this specific demographic uniquely being angry at everyone else about their situation.



  • Posts: 7,344 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not sure "weirdos" would be the go to word for me there. Many - most - maybe near all of them are not "weird" at all. They are quite often decidedly average in most ways. But they have other issues such as depression, low self esteem, or just pure laziness for which they are externalising the blame and thinking society or the opposite sex are aligned in some grand conspiracy against them.

    For me it was laziness and a complete lack of any kind of self discipline. I changed that. The rest of my life changed as a result.

    Unfortunately I fear things like Dating Sites exacerbate that - not help it. Dating sites work for some but are notoriously hard to get hits on at all. And if someone is already feeling worthless in terms of things like dating - confirmation bias is going to make dating site results seem to validate their low self worth and evaluations.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious



    I am not taking offence to anyone. Just wonder why it would be such a race-specific thing



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