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What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭airy fairy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    Ok, thought so.

    I suspect that's why the plans to administer AZ here to the under 30s was quietly abandoned in favour of mRNA and a limited stock of J&J.

    The eagerness of young people registering for mRNA wouldn't certainly not be there if it were AZ they were registering for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yep, the HSE just lumped the AZ on the 60-69 age cohort - take it or leave, go to back of queue etc. A phrase that will haunt Varadkar and Coveney at next election.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭beazee


    The 7 vs 14 day for Pfizer is a non-issue.

    Pfizer states it's 35 days from the first dose with the following dose at wk3 or wk4.

    Ireland went with four weeks between doses thus it's one week away from 35 days.

    Europe goes with three weeks in-between the doses thus two weeks to make up 35 days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭RavenBea17b


    Excuse me, myocarditis is a serious illness. Downplaying it by saying it is not that serious is not helpful. If not treated properly, it can cause some real issues.

    https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/conditions/myocarditis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭airy fairy


    Boo hoo.

    That age cohort got the vaccine that was available at the time.

    Funnily, not many seem to have issues about it, only you.

    Which brings me to question, why on earth you ever took the vaccine in the first place.

    Don't answer that btw. I don't need the copy and paste psalm again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭McGiver


    I didn't want to downplay it. But it's true that it spontaneously resolved in many cases. You may have had it and didn't know.

    Whereas CVST is a medical emergency and life threatening condition. Very unlikely to resolve itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    That's the thing, anything involving the heart sounds scary until people realize that a lot of common illnesses are also accompanied by myocarditis. It's the rare severe cases that need to get immediately help.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Financials in for AZ and Pfizer and some internal talk in AZ that they will get out of the vaccine business they've only just got into. Stark difference in delivery totals for both companies.




  • Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I doubt they had planned to make much money having agreed to supply it at cost initially. Pfizer is about 10 times the price per dose.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 939 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Myocarditis can be serious but not in every case and is rarely life threatening. The particular clot linked to AZ is always serious and life threatening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭IRISHSPORTSGUY


    "People who have received the AstraZeneca jab may not need a booster because they should be protected against Covid for longer, the firm's chief executive has said.

    Pascal Soriot suggested that the Oxford jab may elicit a stronger T-cell response than the vaccines produced by US companies Pfizer and Moderna.

    The firm is waiting for further data which may prove that millions of older Britons given the AZ jab do not need another dose, he said.

    Ministers are drawing up plans to offer booster shots to 32 million people amid evidence that the protection offered by Covid vaccines gradually wanes.

    "We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail.

    "The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."

    Scientists believe T-cells, a type of white blood cell, may provide longer-lasting immunity to Covid than antibodies. In April, a Birmingham University study found that the AstraZeneca jab appeared elicit a stronger T-cell response than either Pfizer or Moderna.

    Meanwhile, data collected by Johnson & Johnson, whose vaccine is based on the same technology as the AZ jab, showed it "provides years of protection", Mr Soriot said. 

    Pfizer has admitted that the effectiveness of its MRNA vaccine steadily declines over time, dropping to about 84 per cent for vaccinated people about four to six months after getting their second dose.

    Conclusive data comparing the jabs is expected by October or November. By that time, however, the Government's booster programme is expected be up and running.

    Third doses are set to be offered to 32 million Britons, with an average of almost 2.5million third doses a week, starting in the first week of September. 

    All adults aged 50 and over, as well as the immuno-suppressed, will be offered the booster jabs. The campaign could start as soon as September 6, which would see the rollout completed by early December if it goes to plan."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    So the ones that were made to give to the world at no profit actually last the longest and are more efficient than the others. Yet the Eu spent months rubbishing it and ordered 1.8 billion Pfizer which look like they only last 6 months and cost 10 times more each.

    No Fu##ing wonder the German army ended up with broomsticks for rifles.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Here is another one Professor Macron said AZ was "quassi effective " in older people so refused to use it on older people. Other lemmings followed him and now it turns out that Pfizer runs out in 6 months and the ones who got vaccinated first were the most vulnerable to serious injury, just as Delta turns up. That is not forgetting creating a massive hesitancy against the vaccine around the world also.

    But the best part is that Bojo the clown extended the doses for Pfizer to 3 months which actually extended Pfizers effiacy and durability and also increased the antibody in those that took it.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    And here is the best one. Many of those countries will go into further restrictions and lock downs and everyone will look towards the UK and think " how did we fu## up so much "

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    You may want to read the op again. You look to have skipped over some words:

    "People who have received the AstraZeneca jab may not need a booster because they should be protected against Covid for longer, the firm's chief executive has said.


    Pascal Soriot suggested that the Oxford jab may elicit a stronger T-cell response than the vaccines produced by US companies Pfizer and Moderna.


    The firm is waiting for further data which may prove that millions of older Britons given the AZ jab do not need another dose, he said.


    Ministers are drawing up plans to offer booster shots to 32 million people amid evidence that the protection offered by Covid vaccines gradually wanes.


    "We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail.


    "The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Point taken, but at least he is not saying that they will need a booster like everyone else is. Why are they saying a booster is needed and why is Israel giving 3rd doses out when it has not been approved. Obviously they are concerned a bit that the vulnerable people who got jabbed first are more at risk now after the real world data has come out.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The real world data coming out of Israel doesn't line up with the rest of the world.

    Even Pfizer was debating with Israel if they went ahead to call it a booster and not a third jab etc...

    Plenty of people in the Pfizer trials are 12+ months from their first jab. If there was an issue, it would be seen in them first.

    Who is saying a booster is needed?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Also there is no real world data coming out for AZ because it only went into Europe at the start. Saying that most countries never used it at the start because they thought it was not very good.

    The UK data that came out this week showed that it was far higher than Israel's figures and actually better than Pfizers but again the Uk had a 12 week gap between doses for AZ and the others followed later. So it is going to take another couple of months to see what that real world data shows.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Everyone is saying a booster is needed. It is needed because some vaccines are not as good as they were against other variants, nothing to do with it is a bad vaccine or anything. All of them will probably be good with one and not so good against another.

    You can just disregard any data from 12 months ago because Delta never even existed then.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Most countries followed the manufacturer's guidance on the dosing gap between AZ shots of 12 weeks. It was nothing to do with 'following' the UK. They followed the science.


    Comparing how one vaccine in one country based on certain demographics vs a different vaccine in another country in another demographic is not a valid comparison.

    All you can do is compare the same vaccine in the same demographic vs 2 different strains. Almost all countries saw a modest reduction in efficacy, Israel saw a dramatic drop, which is why people have questioned the data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Incorrect AZ could not recommend 12 weeks for AZ because it was only given emergency approval based on 4 weeks. Once countries bought the vaccines they could do whatever they wanted. So the UK itself decided on 12 weeks probably because Oxford invented the damned thing and knew a lot more about it than Astra Zeneca ever would. Same thing happened with Pfizer they only trialed it for 4 weeks to get it approved quicker.

    Israel is one of the best scientific powerhouses of the world. If they do a test and publish the data then straight away started giving third jabs to the most vulnerable people in society you can be well assured they know what the situation is, don't you worry.

    Once again Pfizer is a great vaccine just on this occasion it is not as good against this strain as it was against the others.Same will happen others no doubt.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Saying that, the vaccine was invented before Delta even existed so it would be quite hard to make something work against it anyway. For them to work at all is a miracle in a way.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    "We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail. 

    "The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."

    That's a lot of hoping in there. It's irrelevant anyway as the article clearly states the UK will be giving boosters before there is conclusive proof of this so there is no saving to the UK, they are buying the boosters anyway. Other countries will give boosters too and will be in the same boat as regards lockdowns.

    Can you provide a link to show that "Pfizer runs out in 6 months"? There seems to be a slight drop after 6 months but the Pfizer vaccine seems to generally be stronger and may remain so even with a drop in efficacy;

    https://www.ft.com/content/5a24d39a-a702-40d2-876d-b12a524dc9a5

    Check out Table 1 in the Public Health England COVID-19 Vaccine Surveillance Reports, indicates Pfizer preforming better

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-surveillance-report

    Also, it's noticeable how you stopped posting links to the UK daily cases in the UK Response thread when they started going back up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    You're mentioning emergency approval. They didn't have emergency approval in the EU. Which from your posting 'other countries' is aimed at. It was approved in the EU with a dosing gap between 4 and 12 weeks. That's based upon data from AZ. The EMA would not approve a 12 week gap without recommendation from AZ and the trial data (which showed a better efficacy with a 12 week gap)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,937 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Did Israel get a bad Pfizer batch in April?

    CI range is massive, makes no sence, apart from if there was very few second doses given in April, but why then would the CI among infection and symptomatic disease be tighter?



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