Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

The debate is a moot point anyway. Government has made the correct decision IMO. A small minority of people are arguing with it.

In my opinion if you are afraid to be in the same pub/restaurant as other people despite being vaccinated then you should probably avoid those settings and let others get on with their life

Really all that is going on there Calamari, is poor data and IT systems and worries about GDPR .

They said as much at the HSE briefing, and that will take a while to realise given what has happened over the last couple of months with the hack .

Better more integrated IT needed all over the hospital and health systems , but GDPR limits a lot of what can be used , or published .

Most of the data that you see from other countries has come from major IT systems that in the US for example have very less restrictive laws on publishing data , than EU . Other data comes from major studies large samples , where patients give consent gir their data to be used , such as those from The Netherlands and Denmark .

That is why our data is so limited. No big conspiracy .

If everything was published like some other countries, there would be an outcry from so many people and complaints to the Commissioner for Data Protection.

Nothing to do with discrimination, these people decided not to get vaccinated. Vaccine-preventable infections can be deadly. Every year in the US, prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, approximately 50,000 adults died from vaccine-preventable diseases.

It’s not about me, it’s about everyone. The science shows that vaccinations work and are necessary to get past this awful pandemic, others who don’t want to partake unfortunately have to deal with the repercussions - how is that so difficult to understand?

I’m glad Leo came out today and asked for clarity around this. It is completely misleading, equally, I don’t buy into the fact that this is an IT limitation.

Ive worked with the HSE IT Infrastructure and I do know first hand how poor it is but it’s not held together with plastic either.

They are well able to produce more accurate data representing true hospital cases. It was the same with vaccine numbers, for a long time they wouldn’t or “couldn’t” measure the vaccine doses being administered due to “IT issues” around the time of the hack.

Not buying that either. The fact is the HSE is an incredibly bad run system, they have the man power to produce more accurate reports but probably don’t even see the reason to. On top of that, GDPR is redundant in this case, they can produce more accurate numbers without putting peoples data into three public. We aren’t looking for names, addresses or even information on the patients issue - we are simply asking for accurate data which is easily produced should they want to

Yeah. I have a good friend who can’t access a lot of pubs, restaurants and clubs because of a medical condition which means he has to use a wheelchair. I have yet to see anyone protesting for his rights and demanding equality of access for chair users. Surely it’s medical apartheid no?

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy. Well, it depends how you define conspiracy I suppose, but no I'm not a believer of the madder stuff. However data protection or not we dont actually needs names and addresses we just need anonymous data on whether someone is actually sick from covid or is sick from something else and just happens to be positive.

I mean this whole thing has cost us and continues to cost us billions and billions and upsets billions of people. And we cant have better data because of IT systems and data protection? Thats not saying that data protection isn't important and I wouldnt want to see it softened but I work in IT and there are ways around that dont actually impinge anyones rights. There just has to be a will to do it.

Incorrect assumption on this “being about me.”

Not sure what post you read, as mentioned prior (and by many others,) this is an incredibly unusual and once in a lifetime event that cost millions of life’s worldwide. People have lost so much and unfortunately in many cases they have lost everything - people who refuse the vaccine have made that choice themselves. This isn’t just something that has happened overnight, millions of people died as a result of this devastating virus, the economy has been shattered, depression and suicide is through the roof, unemployment reaching all time highs - we owe to these people to come together and stop this disease.

You contradicted yourself with your definition of discrimination too, you don’t choose your skin colour, you don’t choose your sex, you don’t choose your sexuality either. You do however choose to not take the vaccine in order to protect yourself and others, there is a massive difference there.

It’s unreal isn’t it. I mean the thinking that it can’t be discrimination because someone has a choice is beyond bonkers really.

Its not discrimination because it’s only for a little while. Honestly it’s bonkers.

Most people recognize it as discrimination but look at it as a necessity under exceptional circumstances yet some don’t even see it at all, mad!

Does anyone know if the Jannsen vaccine is open to all as yet? I've been out of Ireland since April and return in two weeks. I'd like to get the Jannsen shot to be done in one go, rather than waiting several weeks for a second shot. But I fall into the 35-49 category who were not being offered the Jannsen vaccine so far.

I see what you're saying , and it would be good to have that data , but nevertheless the very fact that they are positive puts an additional strain on isolation facilities and paths of care .

For example . Someone who tests positive with a broken leg but is asymptomatic will have to wait until a theatre slot is available for Covid surgery , ( (stretched enough in Orthopaedics normally ) , and the theatre will have to completely cleaned and left to ventilate before it can be used again for any other patient . Do you not see how every time this happens it will cause additional work and delays.

This is the same with xrays and any other procedure the patient may have .

Also risk of post operative infection and poor outcomes are increased symptomatic or not . Just having an additional virus circulating nevermind Covid can cause problems for previously healthy patients. There is a higher risk of pneumonia and clotting problems , and inflammatory conditions that would not be an issue pre Covid.

To say that people ' tested with Covid " in hospital are just a number and don't require extra care is either naive, stupid ( not saying you are ) or disingenuous in the extreme .

This has been explained by myself and other healthcare professionals on these threads and elsewhere since last year . Funny how some seem to have such short memories .

Nobody knows what they may or may not have diagnosed down the line .

So many developing inflammatory conditions like arthritis and respiratory issues and diabetes can be triggered by viral infections.

Covid has been cited as triggering Diabetes in previously low risk people , heartattacks , thrombosis, cardiac inflammation and arrhythmias , myocarditis , renal insufficiency and failure , and the list goes on . And in those who had mild ir asymptomatic infections , not just moderate or severe illness .

They may be making their own stick to beat themselves with tbh .

Whether its the shambles of the upgrade or people have had enough of covid, its telling when there's no reference to the daily numbers. Approx 1,400 cases, 160 in hospital and 26 in icu.

Also noticed MM tweeting that Ireland has a greater percentage of fully vaccinated adults now than the UK, strange that he never mentioned that they're far less restricted than us though!

I don't think you are a conspiracist, but there is no manipulation as some imply .

Yes I agree more detail would be good as far as the data is concerned.

My point is that some would use that to say that' hospitals are not really under pressure because those patients don't really have Covid , they just tested positive '.

I have seen 'those patient' and some end up in ICU , not because of their underlying conditions or whatever they were admitted with ,but because their Covid infection has gotten much worse day by day,and on top of having surgery or whatever they were admitted for , it has overwhelmed them.

Very hard to say how anyone will react physically to testing positive ..if we had that knowledge we would be doing much better with Covid . We can only go on what is known , experienced , and can be extrapolated from international studies and data .

Others who were admitted for Covid were fine and discharged home a few days later or were sent home on oxygen with monitor .

So how would you go about dividing up those numbers.

" 12 admitted with Covid. 10 tested positive for Covid. 3 contracted Covid in hospital.

Of the 12, 6 were moderate , 2 were mild, 2 went to ICU and 2 discharged.

Of the non Covid Covid , 5 were grand and just had their surgery / tests , but 3 went on to infect 6 other patients, 3 became very unwell , 2 died in ICI

Of the 3 that contracted it in hospital, one went onto ICU , one died from heart attack ,maybe caused by Covid ,had no previous cardiac history, one went home and is now suing the hospital "

A bit more complex..Where does it end ? And in that information individuals would be identifiable.

And in the midst of it all apart from everyone having so much more to talk , worry or think about ,it doesn't add anything to patient care .

It will come out in the wash eventually when the HSE have time to employ someone like Relaxbrah to look at that information and analyse it in detail , but it's been too busy to do that till now and the hack delayed a lot of work that could have been done between this wave and the last.