Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

14 patients involved in those hospital outbreaks .

Majority of patients are hospitalised for Covid with a few testing positive on admission for something else , according to Paul Reid , at HSE briefing today.

There is a simple reason for that and I wold have thought that while some may not agree with the distinction the thought process behind is easily understood.

Infection numbers, hospitalisations and deaths from/with covid have been used throughout to drive home the severeness of this virus and this pandemic. Especially the latter two since nobody would care about infection numbers if the hospitalisations and deaths were obviously in the non-dramatic range. These latter two numbers have been used as a direct instrument to convince the population of the necessity of unprecedented restrictions on civil liberties and commercial and social life in general.

It has been formally (and somewhat grudgingly) confirmed that not every covid death is someone who actually died from covid or where covid has even been a contributing factor. So we call it died 'with' covid but in the news articles this distinction often gets forgotten about and anyone who 'pedantically' insists on this distinction gets dismissed to the 'grifter' corner.

Officially the reason for the 'with covid' definition is that it is not a black & white scenario and that we cant carry out autopsies on everyone and even that would often not give a definite answer. Even as a covid response critic I find it hard to argue with that, but I must also assume that if the vast majority of the covid deaths could relatively easily and convincingly be attributed to 'from covid' then we certainly would have done so. In fact it seems no attempt at a more granular definition has been made even. Conclusively the cynic (and lets be honest, realist) in me assumes most likely the opposite is the case and 'with covid' is a rather 'generous' definition.

Therefore critics have always suspected that the hospitalisation numbers show a similar pattern and in fact this has since also been confirmed. We also have found out that quite a large portion of covid 'hospitalisations' actually acquired the virus in hospital.

So in terms of legitimation of measures with hospitalisations as a yardstick it absolutely is relevant whether someone is in hospital with an appendicitis and happened to test positive upon admission or whether someone is in hospital because of and treated for covid.

It is also very important for medical reasons, especially with the narrative on the so-called 'variants'. It is vital to know whether a certain variant causes higher hospitalisations or whether hospitalisations are merely up because the incidence rate in the general populace is up and hospitalisation numbers simply reflect that. Whether some or many of those hospitalisations are merely normal hospital traffic that happens to test positive. Obviously a young person in hospital with appendicitis who happens to test positive is a lot less likely to be transferred to ICU than an actual covid case.

Muddying those waters does not help anyone it only makes people suspicious.

Once we're finished the first course, do we just start on boosters i wonder?

Majority could be 60%. We should be given total hospital covid patients and then an of which hospitalised because of covid figure. I don't think that should be too hard and I hope it happens as the government are looking for this distinction. It'll give us a better idea of infections to serious disease and then the same in vaccinated and unvaccinated, age of patient etc. If people who have covid but are in hospital for other reasons are included it'll skew all these figures and ratios

Data released yesterday from CDC re: Delta is concerning. Not possible to infer vaccine efficacy based on the data but it's potentially zero, and best case it's in-line with the findings from Israel. In contrast also to previous findings, viral load is unchanged between fully vaccinated and unvaccinated people (based on CT value, Figure 2).

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, Including COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections, Associated with Large Public Gatherings — Barnstable County, Massachusetts, July 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

If we have a situation wherein vaccinated people have the same viral load and rate of transmission, efficacy is low for the dominant strain, people's distancing/masking/hygiene behaviours change based on their vaccination status and due to being asymptomatic, then I think we can expect full lockdowns again this winter regardless of how many are vaccinated, if NPHET remain at the wheel.

why the fcuk is the mainstream media printing such nonsense like this? It’s scare mongering of the highest level.

The vast majority of human beings do not think logically - instead, they allow their emotions and mental heuristics to cloud their judgment and arrive at fallacious conclusions. 

It is 100% clear that COVID will be endemic, but the normal human mind can not fathom this and needs closure or some kind of "action" (even if said action is pointless in the long run).

I would just make peace with yourself and the fact that most people in charge of government are not making logical decisions.....with this in mind, look for opportunities to boost your living standards/net worth and take advantage of human irrationality...there's plenty of that in the market. 

If you fight the tide of human stupidity, it will drag you in and drive you insane...

At least one good thing about that report is saying top scientists are sceptical of the CDC’s latest report. Also disputing their claims that Delta isn’t spreading like chicken pox.

“”Top scientists today claimed the Indian 'Delta' variant is not spreading as quickly as chickenpox, despite US health officials saying it is just as contagious.

Data circulating within America's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) claimed people infected with the mutant strain can go on to infect eight others.

The same internal document  also alleged that fully-vaccinated people can spread the Indian variant just as easily as unvaccinated people because they carry a similar amount of the virus in their nose and mouth. 

Dr Rochelle Walensky, the director of the CDC, insisted the agency was 'not crying wolf', saying the situation was 'serious' and that the measures needed to tackle the spread of Delta were 'extreme'.

But British scientists have questioned some of the claims made by the department, which has urged Americans to keep their coverings on indoors regardless of whether they've been vaccinated or not. 

Professor David Livermore, an infectious diseases expert from the University of East Anglia, said vaccine-triggered immunity and the endless waves of Covid which nations have endured meant there were fewer susceptible people around for people to infect.

'The US, like the UK, has substantial immunity from prior infection and from vaccination,' he told MailOnline. 'This will surely be a major drag on Delta's spread, precluding (viral spread) numbers of that magnitude.' 

And Professor Julian Tang, a virologist at Leicester University, said the theory was likely just 'speculation' because it was very difficult to track down the number of cases sparked by a single infection. “”

Bizarre!

Daily mail forgot to put the part in were the also said the percentage that it will evolve into a regular cold is even higher.

Same scientific paper Same group of scientists.

The rag just runs with the worse case scenario.

Absolutely mate. It’s mind boggling, apparently it’s happening across the country all week. I’ve gotten into spats with these people as I struggle to bite my tongue when it comes to this.

Literally nothing between the ears, there sources of information aren’t real and they can’t see it. There aggression is getting worse for sure

Do you see yourself as a soldier or something?

I acknowledged that in the second line of my post. "Not possible to infer vaccine efficacy based on the data but it's potentially zero, and best case it's in-line with the findings from Israel."

The study of course wasn't powered, it's a case study, but it does indicate things that weren't shown/expected before, specifically high viral load in fully vaccinated people, high transmissibility amongst fully vaccinated, and very high rates of symptoms amongst vaccinated who are infected.

"Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons" - this is fine and makes sense

"Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic." - this isn't expected

At what point do you count them as a covid patient though?

At the very least they require isolation, they still require staff to wear extra PPE. They have covid and in hospital, you can't say they don't have covid.