Kilkenny GAA Thread

kksaints · 17-07-2021 9:20pm

Comfortable enough win in the end. We played a more varied game in the 2nd half, puckouts were mixed instead of bombed straight down, we played much more of a running game although how much of that was down to Dublin tiring is open to question. Huw Lawlor had a good game and Maher while he was a little shaky defensively was excellent on the ball. Still a little too reliant on TJ in the forward line and while Eoin Cody is developing very nicely and he played well, we need the other starting forwards to delivery more consistent performances. Would agree with usualstripes, our full forward line is lacking in movement at times.

Rosita · 17-07-2021 9:23pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625442#Comment_117625442

Yeah, semi final will be an enormous step up from what was played today, or the last day either. The revertion to the long ball when under stress is probably and early sign of how it will unravel in the end.

Faugheen · 17-07-2021 9:23pm

Carey was lucky to stay on the pitch in my opinion after that head-to-head shot on Boland.

Don't know if it would have made a difference to the result but either way I've seen nothing to believe we'll win it out.

blackcard · 17-07-2021 11:27pm

A win is a win. Plenty of effort and endeavor. Positives were Huw Lawlor. Thought Paddy Deegan played well. Adrian Mullen put in a serious shift. Eoin Cody got on plenty of ball. TJ is the best freetaker in the country imo

Negatives. Out of all the teams competing for the Liam McCarthy, we are the worst at making good use of possession. i have great time for Bllly Ryan but the end result isn't there for the moment. We didn't create goal chances

Food for thought. TJ hasn't been involved in open play as much as you would like. Colin Browne out for the next match? Richie Leahy gets bottled up too much.

JJs Left Hand · 18-07-2021 7:53am

I found last night very disappointing. I genuinely wonder what we're doing in training because bar the fundamentals like work rate etc. we are so bad to watch.

Our puck outs, Jesus Christ our puck outs. This is intercounty hurling, the highest level, and our half forward line are nearly always having to reverse 5-10 yards just to contest a ball in the air. I'd love to see our puck out stats for the last 5 years because they can't be good reading. Is it so hard to manufacture a situation where we put a puck out in front of someone. Nobody moves and Murphy just wellies it. It's bizarre.

We've also just reverted to type on our delivery to the forwards. Gone are the lovely low diagonal balls into the corner for an inside forward to move onto them sideways and replaced with, if we're lucky, a diagonal ball up in the **** sky.

We have the best hurler in the country, arguably ever, and we should have a plan to isolate him and get the ball into his hand in open play as much as possible and we don't seem to be doing that either.

Dublin lost O Donnell after 2 minutes and the Covid players before the game. That game last night should never have been a contest. Mentally we should've had them beaten after 20 minutes but we left them in the game for far too long.

Obviously it's a results business and we won comfortably in the end but the performance was desperate and I'd have zero confidence in beating anyone off the back of that.

Whether its the management not having a plan or the players just unable to implement it on the field I don't know but it's depressing either way. I'm under no illusions of what we are now, which is a semi final team, but we need to seriously up our game because last night was awful.

KK Supercats · 18-07-2021 8:29am

Hard to disagree with what has been said on last nights match. Puck outs dreadful again leading to forwards trying to break even at best from our own possession or knock ball into space to recycle. TJ being double and tripled marked but the space that should be created from this is not being used at all. Work rate cannot be faulted. Dublin were weakened with covid issue and often played with just the two inside forwards which should have allowed us an opportunity to work possession forward in a managed way but that didn’t seem to happen. Unfortunately I don’t think we will be close to Tipp, Limerick or maybe even Galway (depending on how they bounce back). I would love to be wrong but cannot see us getting any further than semi final this year.

18-07-2021 9:59am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117625637#Comment_117625637

18-07-2021 10:03am

Carey got a serious slap before that and the Dublin player should have getting his walking papers .

Swamp_Cat · 18-07-2021 11:22am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626015#Comment_117626015

I really like Richie Leahy but he wasn't getting bottled up due to the opposition as much as constantly taking too much out of it & or running into dead ends & coughing up possession. Poor decision making. He's a talented hurling w/a huge engine but he's got to improve his decision making and spacial awareness. Seen him looking like Cian Lynch when playing for his club. Is he just not up to IC championship standards? Curious what people who are more in the know think. I hope he can become a bit more consistent/intelligent on the ball.

Where's Evan Shefflin been? Not sure his age but is he playing any IC hurling? Assume he's in the U20 age bracket, but just a guess.

brookville · 18-07-2021 12:14pm

Evan shefflin isn't on the panel

First of all well done last night.We all would of taken this a few months ago.It was very unfortunate for Dublin last night with the close contact cases and eoghan o donnell only lasting a few minutes but to their credit they battled hard but lacked the killer instant especially in attack.They sat back deep smothering our forwards and we were able shoot from distance and maher took his scores very well and had a good tussle with Sutcliffe.

I was at the match and our forwards were making runs and players were getting isolated but the ball coming in was dreadful at times a bit like our puckouts seem to hang for ages.If the players didn't realise this wasn't working would the guys doing the stats not realise this?

Alan Murphy showed some great touches when he came on and has being a good sub and the others played well when they came on.

Browne will probably be gone the next day but carey has some burst of pace going forward .Disappointing that our midfield replaced again and Billy Ryan probably better suited coming on when the game opens up.

We know we have to improve we have 3 weeks to get things right everyone knows that maybe it's not the worst way to go into a semi final as I said we would of taking this a few months ago and our panel is probably a bit stronger than it was last year.Its a pity Richie Hogan didn't get ten minutes last night but delaney should be back on the squad the next day.

Charlie69 · 18-07-2021 2:08pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117626416#Comment_117626416

Agree with all of this... We don't seem to have a game plan at all, we seem to wait until the first water break to have a chat about how we're going to react to what the opposition are doing. It's very frustrating because I honestly believe we have the players but as you say our lack of a puck out strategy and our poor use of the ball in possession shows just how poorly coached this team is. Very very frustrating.

C__MC · 18-07-2021 5:09pm

C__MC · 18-07-2021 5:09pm

tibruit · 18-07-2021 5:43pm

We were poor under the long puck out last night but the stats only tell a fraction of the real story. The most important thing about the puck out is not the puck outs won, but where and how often the possession turn overs come. Comparing long puck outs won against a team that goes short tells us nothing. If you go long 100% of the time and are winning only 35% against a defense that is playing deep, then 100% of the turnovers against you are happening somewhere in front of the oppositions full back line. You might win 90% of your short puck outs but the important thing to consider is what % of your possessions you still retain by the time you work the ball up to your forwards. You also need to take into account that the turnovers when they come will be much closer to your own goal and also the effort involved in working the ball upfield with a short game.

The amount of running Davy expects his teams to do is ridiculous. We should keep pucking it out long to them all day. They collapsed through exhaustion against us and likewise against Tipp in the semi two years ago.

blackcard · 19-07-2021 12:26am

If Galway win their qualifier, they automatically get Tipp in a quarter final? And a Galway win mean that they play Limerick? Of the others, I wouldn't mind losing to Clare

greenspurs · 19-07-2021 9:14am

A good win, but not a great match.

Leahy and Ryan are stuggling for form, even the basics seem to be beyond tham at the moment.

Murphy and Cody were very good.

The full back line were excellent, especially Huw .

I dont know if it could be heard on the tv coverage, but whats with the booing of TJ when hes lining up his frees?

It probably always went on at games (?) , but its really apparent now in 25% full stadiums !

Hon The CATS !! 🐱

brettmirl · 19-07-2021 10:18am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117630863#Comment_117630863

Was at the game too, and it was the Dub fans doing what they do. Thankfully it's a rareity at most hurling matches. Last time I remember it happening was a KK/Wex game in Nowlan Park.

me89 · 19-07-2021 1:07pm

Full back line were very good, Deegan gets criticized a lot but he was excellent Saturday so credit where it's due, he always gives 100%.

greenspurs · 19-07-2021 2:09pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117630250#Comment_117630250

Id prefer to beat Clare 😋😁

babyjesus14 · 19-07-2021 2:30pm

Conrats to Dublin on their win in the Leinster Final! I assume they won considering Kilkenny are "bang average", "woefully coached" and "septic"!

Do people ever get fed up with constantly giving out? Just this constant moaning! Do these people even like the Kilkenny hurling team? What are these supposed supporters doing on line anyway while the match is going on? Chasing likes?! Are ye not emotionally invested in it?

Comerman · 19-07-2021 3:02pm

Anyone know what the story is about getting into the minor game Wednesday night?

babyjesus14 · 19-07-2021 5:37pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117632764#Comment_117632764

I contacted the county board about the availability of tickets for the Under 20 match against Laois last week and was told none were going on sale to the general public. I would imagine it's the same for the two matches this week. If you are a club member, contacted your club would probably be your best option.

tbiggertycome · 19-07-2021 7:36pm

KK v GAL U-20

A Tallis

D Fogarty J Young P McDonald

S Staunton S Keoghan P Dempsey

C Kenny P Moylan

L Moore C Kelly J Morrissey

C Brennan T Clifford E Guilfoyle

Subs

D Galway

W Halpin

T Dunne

C Beirne

I Byrne

G Murphy

J Buggy

P Cody

B Drennan

tbiggertycome · 20-07-2021 1:53am

KK v OFF Minor

A Dunphy

E Rudkins B Hughes K Corcoran

J Fitzpatrick G Dunne E Lyng

K Carey K Doyle

J Walsh H Shine D Sherman

D Glennon T Dunne D Queally

Subs

B Garrett

S Moore

J Neary

C Hackett

B Whitty

P Naddy

B O Neill

F Hogan

A McEvoy

therealdonster · 20-07-2021 9:31am

The U20 game is the deferred game on TG4 tonight but can be watched on the TG4 app apparently - I assume this is the same as the TG4 live stream on YouTube?

JJs Left Hand · 20-07-2021 9:39am

No, Dublin V Offaly is on the YouTube channel. Never heard of the TG4 app to be honest

therealdonster · 20-07-2021 9:53am

That's what it says on the kilkennygaa twitter account....there is indeed an app - I just downloaded it

Rosita · 20-07-2021 4:00pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117630250#Comment_117630250

My understanding is that since Tipperary are Munster runners up the winner of their quarter final will play Kilkenny in the semi final. In the same way that Kilkenny played Waterford last year.

I'm not sure if a desire to avoid repeat pairings (e. g. Cork V Limerick) at semi final times overrides that.

KK36 · 20-07-2021 5:30pm

In Order

Provincial winners are in opposite semi finals.

Provincial finals cannot be repeated in all ireland semi finals

After that repeat pairings are avoided.

Corrigible · 20-07-2021 6:00pm

Interesting article on breaking ball stats in the examiner. If accurate then we need to improve, as many more knowledgeable posters than me have pointed out on this forum. But I suppose the saying lies, damn lies and statistics comes into play considering Waterford were most successful and Laois just above Wexford as least successful. However if a forward gets a breaking ball in behind then it’s goal time. I can’t post a link here as I’m a newbie. But have a look.

JJs Left Hand · 20-07-2021 8:54pm

Hard to know what to make of that game. Never looked like catching them but you'd have to question the team selection considering how many changes were made before they started making any impression on the game.

me89 · 20-07-2021 8:55pm

I'm not sure I've ever seen a team be as bad in the first half of a game and then come out and play as good in the 2nd. A few poor decisions near the end but they just left themselves to much to do.

JJs Left Hand · 20-07-2021 8:58pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638780#Comment_117638780

Yea, easy say it from where we are but if Drennan puts it over instead of looking for the killer pass and Guilfoyle puts it over instead of taking an impossible shot it would've got interesting but when you're there and you're being told there's only a couple of minutes left you look for the goal

therealdonster · 20-07-2021 8:59pm

Another U20 campaign has come and gone with a Kilkenny team having regressed from when that team played minor. Hiding behind the usual lame excuse of Galway being a great team will I predict be shown to be wrong before the year is out. Hard to see too many of that Kilkenny team ever making an impact at senior level. Guilfoyle maybe, Tallis perhaps but that's it. I think only one of the 6 starting forwards scored. We are falling behind in so many areas - let's hope that this result serves as a wake up call.

dzer2 · 20-07-2021 9:00pm

Dear God lads that was pathetic. A lot on here slated Village for his comments he wasn't wrong. I have said it before many times, the best players at this age all along were never looked at. Daddy's son sent in at 14 and stayed there to under 20. Not too many here you would look to for the future

brookville · 20-07-2021 9:48pm

Fought back well to be fair to the chaps but to be honest I think it just covers up the cracks that have being there for years.As John mullane famously said I loves me county,I have and will drive the country to follow kilkenny but this is year in and year out.This game could of finished as a huge embarrassment but are we just going to go on like we have and say the slow start killed us etc etc.Would it of being better get well bet tonight so that something might be finally done?

The development squads aren't and haven't being working.We can blame manager after manager but the drop off from u17 to u20 is shocking.This has being going on for years.What is happening young lads from minor?I know we aren't mopping up minors but the transition from minor is very poor.

brookville · 20-07-2021 9:53pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117638823#Comment_117638823

What players should be in that aren't?there was 3 minors brought in after the final who I presume did little training with the u20s which was surprising.I would be slow to blame management the problem is bigger than management.The whole structure is wrong.Has anything changed over the last few years?I know that alot of former players are involved at juvenile level.

JJs Left Hand · 20-07-2021 10:09pm

Changes were brought in this year to bring more players into the development squads. Benefits of that won't be seen for a few years obviously.

Cork did a root and branch review a few years ago and are now reaping the benefits so possibly something we need to look at. Ultimately it comes down to the quality of coaching and whether it's up to standard, not just in the development squads but at club level.

And, let's be honest, as coaching standards rise throughout the country our small population in comparison to other big hurling counties could start to hurt us.

kilkennyboy · 20-07-2021 10:31pm

Without getting into it about bigger picture stuff.

Why was the galway fullback not sent of for the penalty. Or dose that rule not apply to this grade.

blackcard · 20-07-2021 10:33pm

That first 15 minutes was some of the worst hurling that I have ever seen from a Kilkenny team, the second 15 minutes was even worse. Lads making 3 attempts to rise a ball, hitting the ball straight to Galway lads, sidelines dreadful, frees hit wide, losing every ruck and 50 50 ball. Even Ciaran Brennan couldn't rise a ball.

I don't believe that the players are that badand they redeemed a small bit of pride in the second half. But we seriously need to address what has gone wrong at underage in Kilkenny

usualstripes · 20-07-2021 10:47pm

The 1st thing we all have to realise is that at underage level we are not playing the strongest players in a hurling sense. This is certainy not a dig at any players themselves but for sure we didn't have our strongest team out tonight and we don't have our strongest team out tomorrow night either.

For the 1st half tonight it was men against boys. It was similar to the senior set up. We can't give the ball into space for an oncoming forward but we get caught out in this exact way.

Fair play to the chaps. They never gave up and in the last 10 mins could have got something out of the game but overall it was very disappointing. Hopefully the minors will have a better year.

dzer2 · 20-07-2021 11:02pm

Lads these teams are selected at under 13 and rarely added to. I have young lads that have played along side these lads back to u13. I have been looking at these teams year after year and Christ they are poor. This team is along way from the best we could put out. I have watched my own club players sent in and they wouldn't be the best hurler we would have but their dad is over the team. This is the same team as 2018 and that minor team had a great start. But lacked the workrate and drive to sustain the start. Lads here are being over praising some off this team but after looking at them for close on a decade I worry for Kilkenny hurling if they are the future. In the second half even though some of ye are looking for a sinbin I thought the penalty was soft and then it was missed. Other than that we got 5 very soft frees and Galway gutted the team and took the foot off the pedal as young lads do. And we were still well beat. Next yrs crew won't be much better unless there are major changes in the selection method.

20-07-2021 11:53pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639408#Comment_117639408

20-07-2021 11:59pm

Has anybody in the Co Board the brains to put a plan in place like they did in the late ninties it is shocking to see team after team disapearing year in year out, is it control by the clubs or what.

Rosita · 21-07-2021 8:57am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639159#Comment_117639159

I have never bought into the Kilkenny population argument. Let Kilkenny field a competitive football team like the other counties do, and give over swathes of the county to that and then maybe population might matter. The county certainly has more players to choose from than Galway despite what the census will tell you about population.

But I do think you are onto something about shifting ground in hurling. I think the introduction of science to the game as well as the pooling of knowledge in third level colleges, access to resources, will leave an impact on hurling. It might, for example, leave Limerick more or less at this sort of level permanently.

As for Kilkenny underage, wasn't the arrival of Galway into the province always going to be hugely detrimental to success rates? Expectations might need to be adjusted.

therealdonster · 21-07-2021 9:15am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117639604#Comment_117639604

I'm taking that was a rhetorical question. When you look at the power players at work there and who is coming down the line it does not exactly inspire ones confidence that change and innovation is on the way. Just showing up and presenting trophies seems to be the no.1 priority of said individuals.

Firstly it is important to recognise the work that goes in at club level which is the bedrock of player production and indeed the GAA itself. Nobody could dispute that we produce more than our fair share of talented youngsters which is evident from our success at U17 and schools level - which most other counties would happily swap with us for.

However it is blatantly clear that there is a problem developing these players beyond that point. Using last nights hot mess as an example that team looked badly coached (no clear style of play) ,lagging in S&C (couldn't win a ruck) and lacking scoring forwards.

I managed to watch a few of the U20 games this week with the exception of Dublin Offaly and I would have ranked us second to last of all the teams - only Clare were worse than our lot. You can also throw Waterford into that who lost to Tipp last week. We would not have beaten Tipperary (who lost heavily in the end to Cork) which was a team we accounted for in some style at minor. I looked back and more or less the same players lined out for us and them.

So the question is what has or is happening? The big why. As with all complex problems the answers and solutions are also complex.

It has already been touched on here but undoubtedly the standard of coaching has improved massively.

The fact that hurling has become a much more structured game makes good coaching much more important. This coaching has evened out standards with very few standout players. Physical preparation has also reached professional levels and has also contributed to an evening out of standards. In fairness this has all made the inter county game more competitive than ever with any of the top 7 or 8 teams capable of beating each other. I think kilkenny have fallen.behind in.this area.

All of these other predominantly hurling counties have much bigger populations than us and in most cases have big cities with access to universities and the facilities and other advantages these entail.

Taking Cork as an example who seem to be leading the way at U20 level at present. When you look at the UCC and CIT Fitzgibbon Cup teams it's almost all Cork players on those teams. This gives them access to professional setups with top class facilities and coaches.

If you have the talent and desire you will progress in such a setup - I think the proof will be in the pudding with them in a few years. Contrast that with our 4 or 5 players that have made top level colleges teams in the last few years. In fairness when you look at the ones that have played like Bergin, Mullens and Donnelly they have been of the highest quality which maybe proves the point.

Rosita · 21-07-2021 10:07am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117640163#Comment_117640163

I would agree with most of this. Just a couple of quibbles. Kilkenny school teams are essentially packed teams. Very few schools have access to players 30 miles away like St Kieran's do so no much can read into that success. It'd be more surprising if they weren't successful. But the discrepancy between schools' success and county minor has long been established.

It's an aside but the top 7/8 teams all capable of beating each other? Really? Wexford haven't won a championship game since the 2019 Leinster final. Limerick are going for a third All Ireland title in four years. It's competitive in the sense that all teams are well prepared, whereas I am sure back in the day there were county teams badly organised who didn't really have a chance. But there's no sense that 7/8 teams have an equal chance of winning the All Ireland title. That might not be what you meant of course - I should acknowledge that, but assuming a county is in the business of seriously attempting to win an All Ireland title that's how competitiveness should be judged. The idea that a team can be successful while still vulnerable against 7/8 team isn't sustainable.

robwen · 21-07-2021 6:32pm

robwen · 21-07-2021 6:34pm

https://twitter.com/KilkennyCLG/status/1417879971159109632?s=19

blackcard · 21-07-2021 8:09pm

Extremely frustrating watching Kilkenny minors. 5 points up at halftime but should be up by a dozen points. On at least 6 occasions they had handy points for the taking but tried to work goals and ended up with nothing. They are also giving away needless frees to keep Offaly ticking over. Hopefully the management team will have a few words at halftime

Kilkenny GAA Thread

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