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Kilkenny GAA Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭ brookville


    bamayang wrote: »
    Any match kk go 2 points ahead (regularly in the first half) Michael Walsh “Well, I think we can call this a kk victory for sure”

    Jeez he is very poor and fierce biased.Ronnie gets wound up aswell and you wouldn't know if it was a 65 or a sideline cut to the home or away team he can be all over the place at times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ tbiggertycome


    brookville wrote: »
    Jeez he is very poor and fierce biased.Ronnie gets wound up aswell and you wouldn't know if it was a 65 or a sideline cut to the home or away team he can be all over the place at times.

    Well if our lads our biased I don't know what we'd call the Offaly crowd calling the minor match on Saturday on the stream. I think Michael is insightful he's a passionate hurling man and might get a bit carried away. I can't ever remember him calling a game when Kilkenny are two points up. Ronnie on the other had is like a scatter gun. If you want excitement but to not know whats happening Ronnie is your man. He regularly gets lads names wrong in games. This would be understandable if it's the opposition but he often calls the wrong player for Kilkenny.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭ Grats


    This photo from Saturday's match made it into the European Sports Photos of the week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ Speak Now


    Grats wrote: »
    This photo from Saturday's match made it into the European Sports Photos of the week.

    Straight red for the invisible man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 616 ✭✭✭ babyjesus14


    Well if our lads our biased I don't know what we'd call the Offaly crowd calling the minor match on Saturday on the stream. I think Michael is insightful he's a passionate hurling man and might get a bit carried away. I can't ever remember him calling a game when Kilkenny are two points up. Ronnie on the other had is like a scatter gun. If you want excitement but to not know whats happening Ronnie is your man. He regularly gets lads names wrong in games. This would be understandable if it's the opposition but he often calls the wrong player for Kilkenny.


    I get that there's going to be a home bias on local broadcasts but it was comically bad on the Offaly stream of the minor Leinster Final last Saturday. Fair play to our own Ciaran Neary for remaining diplomatic and not challenging them, don't think i would have had the same patience!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ Rosita


    Swamp_Cat wrote: »
    Really thought we were beginning to get away from nonstop long ball. There were signs in a few matches, usually in the 1st half before reverting back to lumping high balls down. But not seeing it. I don't want them to be like some teams but they have the talent to mix it up a lot more..

    It could be argued strongly that Kilkenny will win a Leinster championship by beating the teams which based on last year's championship would rank 8 and 9 in the top tier. In fact one wise man on another thread would not accept Dublin as a top tier team at all.

    Kilkenny have had a good draw really catching a break in Galway losing. Wouldn't have been a single person in Kilkenny not pleased with that result. But Dublin are no world beaters. Galway scored a total of 1-14 against Dublin. You wouldn't get long odds on Reid getting that from frees alone in the Leinster final. Dublin won't get close to winning another game with 1-18. If Eoghan O'Donnell is out Dublin's chances recede further.

    The long ball tendency will haunt Kilkenny from the semi final stage on and might undo them. They will have to come up with more of a mixed style against Limerick (probably in a final) as they are made for that style. But that's a few weeks down the road. Kilkenny's haven't turned into world beaters overnight but they have avoided the qualifiers and have the Leinster final they'd have wanted. The unresolved style of play issues are for another day. Could they win the lottery and see Limerick slip up in their All Ireland semi final? Stranger things have happened.

    Anyway, I've courted enough popularity for one day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭ Comerman


    I get that there's going to be a home bias on local broadcasts but it was comically bad on the Offaly stream of the minor Leinster Final last Saturday. Fair play to our own Ciaran Neary for remaining diplomatic and not challenging them, don't think i would have had the same patience!

    It was funny to hear the commentator saying you'd think the ref would have given Offaly the free as they were losing by so much :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭ Alonzo Moseley


    Rosita wrote: »
    It could be argued strongly that Kilkenny will win a Leinster championship by beating the teams which based on last year's championship would rank 8 and 9 in the top tier. In fact one wise man on another thread would not accept Dublin as a top tier team at all.

    Kilkenny have had a good draw really catching a break in Galway losing. Wouldn't have been a single person in Kilkenny not pleased with that result. But Dublin are no world beaters. Galway scored a total of 1-14 against Dublin. You wouldn't get long odds on Reid getting that from frees alone in the Leinster final. Dublin won't get close to winning another game with 1-18. If Eoghan O'Donnell is out Dublin's chances recede further.

    The long ball tendency will haunt Kilkenny from the semi-final stage on and might undo them. They will have to come up with more of a mixed style against Limerick (probably in a final) as they are made for that style. But that's a few weeks down the road. Kilkenny's haven't turned into world beaters overnight but they have avoided the qualifiers and have the Leinster final they'd have wanted. The unresolved style of play issues are for another day. Could they win the lottery and see Limerick slip up in their All Ireland semi final? Stranger things have happened.

    Anyway, I've courted enough popularity for one day.

    If we were to get to a final, I'd genuinely fear Tipp as much as Limerick.
    Not because they are stronger than Limerick (they aren't) but because they have the players to really hurt us (yet again) where I believe we are weak
    We could very easily cop a 3rd hiding in 5 years via the same formula, Tipp full forwards tearing us asunder.

    Tipp looked ravenous on Sunday (Sheedy was wired on the sideline) and Limerick have really stung them these last 2 years.
    As we know too well, no matter what you say about Tipp, you wont keep beating them endlessly, they are hurting.
    I think they are going to give it one hell of a go in Munster final and Limerick will need to be back to their best.


    We are likely to get to an AI semi without any sort of test of our full back line (both Wex and Dublin look to hurt you from range).

    The thrust of your post is accurate.
    We may be fooling ourselves a bit

    For me on pure form, consistency, and reliability, just 7 players are certain starters
    Murphy
    Lawlor
    Walsh
    Donnelly
    Mullen
    TJ
    Cody

    That would be 9 for me if Delaney and Hogan were fit

    Everyone else has been hit or miss for 2/3 years.
    That's an awful lot of uncertainty.

    But we do have real momentum from Saturday, which cannot be denied.
    Get lucky with injuries clearing up, be a bit bold in one or two selections (Darren mullen, Adrian to midfield? a springer from nowhere?) and we can go the distance

    I also believe we may have seen the first real signs of wear and tear in Limerick on Sat night.
    Their marquee names didn't just misfire in terms of accuracy, they were also (not for the first time) petulant with some cheap swipes when things weren't running as smooth as usual for them.
    They will probably blow some team out the gates over the next few weeks but I believe they represent lousy value at almost odds on for AI.
    And as usual, everyone gets carried away with a winning team's strength in depth (we know this well going back to the cringe stuff a decade ago about our subs being the 2nd best team in the country). This is caused by lads coming in when you are already 12 pts up and naturally fit in comfortably and look world-beaters.
    Limerick brought on Conor Boylan, Mulcahy, Reidy and Pat Ryan
    No disrespect but none of them are world-beaters.

    Another thing that can get inflated when a county is going well is the notion that they are churning out reams of good underage players
    Outside of Munster Limerick have now copped 5 absolute hammerings in 3 years at minor level (three to Galway and two to us).
    That isn't to say Limerick hurling is not in good shape, it is, but a sense of perspective is needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭ Charlie69


    If we were to get to a final, I'd genuinely fear Tipp as much as Limerick.
    Not because they are stronger than Limerick (they aren't) but because they have the players to really hurt us (yet again) where I believe we are weak
    We could very easily cop a 3rd hiding in 5 years via the same formula, Tipp full forwards tearing us asunder.

    Tipp looked ravenous on Sunday (Sheedy was wired on the sideline) and Limerick have really stung them these last 2 years.
    As we know too well, no matter what you say about Tipp, you wont keep beating them endlessly, they are hurting.
    I think they are going to give it one hell of a go in Munster final and Limerick will need to be back to their best.


    We are likely to get to an AI semi without any sort of test of our full back line (both Wex and Dublin look to hurt you from range).

    The thrust of your post is accurate.
    We may be fooling ourselves a bit

    For me on pure form, consistency, and reliability, just 7 players are certain starters
    Murphy
    Lawlor
    Walsh
    Donnelly
    Mullen
    TJ
    Cody

    That would be 9 for me if Delaney and Hogan were fit

    Everyone else has been hit or miss for 2/3 years.
    That's an awful lot of uncertainty.

    But we do have real momentum from Saturday, which cannot be denied.
    Get lucky with injuries clearing up, be a bit bold in one or two selections (Darren mullen, Adrian to midfield? a springer from nowhere?) and we can go the distance

    I also believe we may have seen the first real signs of wear and tear in Limerick on Sat night.
    Their marquee names didn't just misfire in terms of accuracy, they were also (not for the first time) petulant with some cheap swipes when things weren't running as smooth as usual for them.
    They will probably blow some team out the gates over the next few weeks but I believe they represent lousy value at almost odds on for AI.
    And as usual, everyone gets carried away with a winning team's strength in depth (we know this well going back to the cringe stuff a decade ago about our subs being the 2nd best team in the country). This is caused by lads coming in when you are already 12 pts up and naturally fit in comfortably and look world-beaters.
    Limerick brought on Conor Boylan, Mulcahy, Reidy and Pat Ryan
    No disrespect but none of them are world-beaters.

    Another thing that can get inflated when a county is going well is the notion that they are churning out reams of good underage players
    Outside of Munster Limerick have now copped 5 absolute hammerings in 3 years at minor level (three to Galway and two to us).
    That isn't to say Limerick hurling is not in good shape, it is, but a sense of perspective is needed.

    Good Post... I agree regarding the possibility of reaching a semi final without our full back line being properly tested. I like Hugh Lawlor but he's a bit too nice and for some reason referees seem to love penalising him for very harsh calls.

    Tommy Walsh is a decent defender but he always looks very uncomfortable on the ball. I know it's a long shot now but I would have loved to have been able to incorporate Conor Delaneys bit of bold and Darren Mullens intelligent use of the ball into our defence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Galestorm1


    Grats wrote: »
    I'm guessing Donnelly was fully recovered from his injury. Great to get the game time under his belt now.

    John had a hay-fever like issue, wasn't expected to tog out


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭ brookville


    Wexford u20 lose out to 13 man kildare so kilkenny now play kildare.Its not a huge suprise with naas competing underage in kilkenny.David herity doing a good job also.Huge physical team we will have to be tuned in.Well done to them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭ Grats


    brookville wrote: »
    Wexford u20 lose out to 13 man kildare so kilkenny now play kildare.Its not a huge suprise with naas competing underage in kilkenny.David herity doing a good job also.Huge physical team we will have to be tuned in.Well done to them

    Think it's Laois that Kilkenny play in quarter final with winners facing Galway in semi.


  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭ Alonzo Moseley


    brookville wrote: »
    Wexford u20 lose out to 13 man kildare so kilkenny now play kildare.Its not a huge suprise with naas competing underage in kilkenny.David herity doing a good job also.Huge physical team we will have to be tuned in.Well done to them

    Well done Kildare.
    But you have to be concerned about Wexford post-Davy, they could become Offaly Mark 2


  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭ JJs Left Hand


    Fairly sure they've invested heavily in Games Development Officers over the last couple of years so they should be OK in the medium to long term


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,960 ✭✭✭ kksaints


    Well done Kildare.
    But you have to be concerned about Wexford post-Davy, they could become Offaly Mark 2

    Not really, they have a much bigger hurling base than Offaly does plus they have a decent development plan at underage level. They might not win Leinster for a while (Here's hoping!) when the current squad breaks up but they'll still be of a standard above the liked of Laois and Carlow etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭ conor05


    Grats wrote: »
    Think it's Laois that Kilkenny play in quarter final with winners facing Galway in semi.

    Correct. Kildare play Offaly in Q-final and the winners play Dublin in semi.

    Kildare will give Offaly plenty of it, I see 10 of their team is over 6 foot 1. Well coached and can hurl too.

    Under 20 is always an age group you can be caught if not fully switched on, Westmeath caught the cats under Eddie Brennan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭ lim4ev


    If we were to get to a final, I'd genuinely fear Tipp as much as Limerick.
    Not because they are stronger than Limerick (they aren't) but because they have the players to really hurt us (yet again) where I believe we are weak
    We could very easily cop a 3rd hiding in 5 years via the same formula, Tipp full forwards tearing us asunder.

    Tipp looked ravenous on Sunday (Sheedy was wired on the sideline) and Limerick have really stung them these last 2 years.
    As we know too well, no matter what you say about Tipp, you wont keep beating them endlessly, they are hurting.
    I think they are going to give it one hell of a go in Munster final and Limerick will need to be back to their best.


    We are likely to get to an AI semi without any sort of test of our full back line (both Wex and Dublin look to hurt you from range).

    The thrust of your post is accurate.
    We may be fooling ourselves a bit

    For me on pure form, consistency, and reliability, just 7 players are certain starters
    Murphy
    Lawlor
    Walsh
    Donnelly
    Mullen
    TJ
    Cody

    That would be 9 for me if Delaney and Hogan were fit

    Everyone else has been hit or miss for 2/3 years.
    That's an awful lot of uncertainty.

    But we do have real momentum from Saturday, which cannot be denied.
    Get lucky with injuries clearing up, be a bit bold in one or two selections (Darren mullen, Adrian to midfield? a springer from nowhere?) and we can go the distance

    I also believe we may have seen the first real signs of wear and tear in Limerick on Sat night.
    Their marquee names didn't just misfire in terms of accuracy, they were also (not for the first time) petulant with some cheap swipes when things weren't running as smooth as usual for them.
    They will probably blow some team out the gates over the next few weeks but I believe they represent lousy value at almost odds on for AI.
    And as usual, everyone gets carried away with a winning team's strength in depth (we know this well going back to the cringe stuff a decade ago about our subs being the 2nd best team in the country). This is caused by lads coming in when you are already 12 pts up and naturally fit in comfortably and look world-beaters.
    Limerick brought on Conor Boylan, Mulcahy, Reidy and Pat Ryan
    No disrespect but none of them are world-beaters.

    Another thing that can get inflated when a county is going well is the notion that they are churning out reams of good underage players
    Outside of Munster Limerick have now copped 5 absolute hammerings in 3 years at minor level (three to Galway and two to us).
    That isn't to say Limerick hurling is not in good shape, it is, but a sense of perspective is needed.

    As a limerick man I think the points you made about us are all fair and valid I'd be hoping the 1st signs one is incorrect but no doubt we were bang average on sat v cork I hope it's an aberration as I do know a few lads that had niggles had little time to get fully fit I keep saying it that our bench is ok and would be a lot stronger but for Dowling having to retire. Re our minors they just simply weren't good enough to win it out in any of the years you mentioned but i would imagine will get as many from these teams as the eventual winners of those minors.
    Kilkenny for me are right there as are a few other teams to win it out it's too early to judge for definite but one things for sure limerick being odds on is not good value after last weekend anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ tbiggertycome


    Looks like we're finally back, a bit has happened in the mean time.

    The 2020 minors got pipped at the post by Galway, if losing 3 minor finals to Galway doesn't open the eyes of the county board that we're doing something wrong i don't know what will.

    The 2021 U20's got over the line against Laois and are out again next Tuesday against Galway again. Will be interesting to see how we go against them this year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭ JJs Left Hand


    I'd be very very very very fearful about next week against Galway. On the one hand that was Kilkennys first game and Laois had played a few. Alternatively Laois were off the back of needing extra time to beat Westmeath and had to play 80 mins a week ago. Galway have 4 All Ireland minor winning teams feeding this U20 team (obviously the lads up to the age 4 years ago are overage).

    I also felt we were very lucky to be so close to Galway last Saturday. Felt like Galway were in reality a long way ahead of us.

    Looking forward to seeing how the 2021 minors perform considering the expectations. Cork beat them in the Tony Forristal 3 years ago and beat Clare by 40 points last night. They're the barometer to see how Kilkenny have progressed in the intervening period.



  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ bamayang


    That’s an odd way of looking at the minor. Losing 3 in a row is disappointing but they beat a lot of good teams to get there.

    2 minutes to go last week and KK were about to win against an excellent Galway team. So would that have meant that the county board were doing the right thing?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭ dzer2


    From looking at the game I thought Kilkenny were well off the mark. Galway started well and looked like they took the foot off the pedal. The ref Kept us in the game with some soft enough frees and a dubious penalty. If Kilkenny had won I would have said the Galway were robbed TBH.



  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ bamayang


    I would agree with all that, Galway much better and stronger. But KK we’re still 2 mins from winning and looked more likely to get a winner pre-Galway goal.


    I just thought it was strange to say the county board are “doing something wrong”, when I’m sure Tipp, Limerick cork etc would be happy enough if you told them your minors are going to get to the next 3 all Ireland’s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭ Alonzo Moseley


    A sense of perspective is badly needed, Galway have produced a freakishly good stream of Minor team these last 3/4 year. Ironically the closest Kilkenny came to beating them was last Sat, against for me what was undoubtedly their strongest team of the 4 years.

    Galway weren't just good, they were huge, their full-back line looked bigger than either of Cork or Dublin's in the U20 final

    Shane Morgan at Number 2 was big enough in 2019 to be a menacing full forward on their AI-winning team. Any minor team that can take a starting full-forward on an AI-winning team and uses him as a cornerback the following year is a team that has serious options in all positions, and they did.

    They beat us Wexford and Limerick out the gate in 2019 and 9 of that squad (including 7 starters) were still there last Saturday.

    They beat the Munster champion Limerick, by 16 points in the semi, yet we were a point up on them going in to injury time.

    Galway won the last four Kilkenny puck out and launched 4 attacks, the last one yielding the winning goal. Kilkenny probably should have gone short on a few puck outs late on, the long ones suited the Galway backs, but it was an exceptionally old school game, all one on one duels (none better than Hammond v the excellent Molloy) and I'd struggle to recall a single short puck out all game

    Conversely, I found the U20 match a bore, tippy tappy, and handpasses all over the place, 5-6 handpasses just to work it out past the 45.

    U20 next Tues will be a massive test and I suspect the winner of AI will come from it but agree with the above that a 3 pt win versus Laois would not give one great confidence we are about to break out underage Galway hoodoo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 upnorth


    While it was desperately disappointing to lose to Galway at minor again, its worth pointing out that in the 7 years from 2011-2017 we reached one minor All Ireland final, winning in 2014.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 upnorth


    Kilkenny 2021 minors were beaten 2-15 to 3-6 by Cork in the U14 Tony Forristal Final 2018. They were beaten in U15 Arrabawn 2019 semi final by Galway 0-18 to 1-13. Cork then beat Galway 0-23 to 3-12. Now reading the Irish Examiner this morning, Cork seemingly entered two even teams in the 2019 Arrabawn Cup and Arrabawn Plate and won both. Their minor panel seems to have several players from both panels and that's some win last night by 40 points....... Lets concentrate on Leinster first.

    The U20 group will need to improve from last Tuesday but are capable of doing so. In the minor final of 2018 they led Galway by a point at halftime but couldn't sustain it against a very physical side. Best wishes to Derek Lyng, the players and management next Tuesday evening



  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ Mankbag


    You're looking at it the wrong way around. Losing three minor finals to Galway means we're doing plenty right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭ brookville


    The minors fought hard and done well to claw things back and even get ahead after a slow start but galway were huge and deserved their win but it was a gallant effort.

    I don't want to on here criticising young lads u20 but when I seen the team its not our strongest crop ever which happens.Laois had the benefit of two matches including extra time to fine tune their team but it was a very disappointing performance.We brought on 3 minors from Saturday and let's be honest here we were extremely lucky to win.This isn't a suprise and has being happening for years we produce very decent minor teams but the gap from minor to u20/21 is huge.I don't think all the blame cam be pointed at managers.Its obvious the development squads aren't working but at least now we are addressing this at underage but we have being slow to react to this.I hope I'm wrong but I'd be fearful for next week.

    Not much talk about the leinster final which is no harm.Its all clare and wexford and Limerick and tipp.If eoin o donnell is out he will be a huge loss hopefully he will be fit.We should get great confidence beating wexford and competition for places will be huge where there is genuine competition for places but it could be hard come down from that high we could see a different match Saturday. We will probably see a few changes corcoran could lose out for maher.Adrian mullen could go out to midfield.He could hold wally and a few others in reserve.It would be great to see Darren mullen getting game time.Eoin Cody's card will be marked so we need someone like Billy Ryan to kick on.It should be a good match Dublin will have their homework done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭ tbiggertycome


    Well I don't think so. The day we accept getting to finals is good enough in Kilkenny is the day we can wave good bye to success.

    The reason I think the county board have dropped the ball is because of the underage teams inability to finish out their campaigns when they come up against Galway in particular. Galway for me have got it very right in their approach to young player development.


    Would I like us to win the odd minor or U20 AI yes, is it critical no. Winning is never a bad habit to be in by the way. What is critical is the condition and strength of our young lads when they leave minor and U20 and in Kilkenny we are way behind the eight ball in this. The fact that we get to minor finals is down to the quality of hurler we have. I think with better conditioning KK could have one at least one of those 3 All Ireland's. We're not giving those young lads the tools to compete when they meet the top teams that have been slowly building it up for years. From what I know there is no continuous assessment of top talent either when they leave the minor panel for the year there is no follow up programs to ensure they keep on an upward trajectory.

    This really shows when we get to U20 where those teams that have been doing the right work are able to push their guys onto levels our lads don't get to unless they spend 3 or 4 years with the seniors.


    That is the real crux of the issue the talent we're feeding into the senior team is 3-4 years behind their peers in a huge amount of cases. Only 2 in recent memory have been able to make the step up to senior comfortably. Adrian Mullen (because Mick Dempsey worked with him from the age of 16, out of his own time) and Eoin Cody who I think could be even better in a few years with more work behind him.

    I'm delighted the county board have finally made a new gym for the KK underage teams (St Kierans old squash courts) this is long over due I just hope it's properly supervised now so lads aren't doing weights or programs wrong as that's worse than doing nothing.


    Look there a few small positives but in reality the underage system needs a big regig.


    Looking forward to Saturday evening and would be hopefully for a win but we will need to be tighter at the back and if we let Dublin run through us like we did Wexford we could be in trouble. We should have too much at the far end though to be beaten but Dublin nearly did it last year and they look better so far this year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 602 ✭✭✭ lim4ev


    Again just on perspective galway destroyed limerick in the end in the minor semi final by 16 points or so but we were 1 pint off them with 10 minutes to go(after being 8 i think Down at ht)and I actually thought there was only going to be one winner



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