Cities around the world that are reducing car access

06-07-2021 12:30pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Did the bus lanes and tram lanes come out of thin air?

They didn't come out of the activism of vested interest groups with a pathological hatred of private transport.

Thelonious Monk · 06-07-2021 12:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My city in southern Germany is considerably older and more tightly packed than Dublin but very progressive with regard to implementation of solutions to transportation than Dublin.

You're in Germany, different kettle of fish. Every footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars that often push the old and disabled out onto the road among traffic, it is endemic.

cgcsb · 06-07-2021 12:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My city in southern Germany is considerably older and more tightly packed than Dublin but very progressive with regard to implementation of solutions to transportation than Dublin.

Yeah I seen this in Nurnberg, they've the car parks on the edge of a completely pedestrianised core and there's some car parks around the inner ring road, which we don't really have an equivalent of here and never will.

West Germany had the Marshal plan in the mid 20th century. The USA paid them to build big roads around the cities. This never happened in Ireland although we did have a good stab at doing same to a few of our city centre streets, destroying much of them in the process. Thankfully this Americanisation policy was abandoned by the 1990s.

I'm glad you retracted your statement about buses and bikes simply sharing space with cars, which is not the case in Nurnberg, Munich or Stuttgart. All of which have networks of bus and cycle lanes.

In Dublin's case improving transport means a re-allocation of road space from car to sustainable mode and this is continuing apace as we've seen recently on the South quays. The removal of multi lane roads is the future.

06-07-2021 12:41pm

Cars are allowed park partially on footpaths overnight but it is policied as with every other element of German life.

06-07-2021 12:49pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm glad you retracted your statement about buses and bikes simply sharing space with cars, which is not the case in Nurnberg, Munich or Stuttgart. All of which have networks of bus and cycle lanes.

I retracted nothing. Bus and Cycle lanes are few and far between. Cyclists generally share broad pavements with pedestrians. They've closed a lane to make a temporary 4km bike lane out to a suburb here but that is a temporary measure to see if they can induce some bike traffic but if it does work they'll put in something more permanent which isn't at the expense of motorists. Frankly I don't see it being a success as on that route any cyclist would put their bike on the commuter train and travel in at 100kmph then cycle from one of the city stations.
If cyclists want to venture on to the roads they can and if motorists don't give them the 2 metres distance they are allowed the motorist picks up a fine. If the cyclist doesn't obey the rules of the road they'll be picking up fines too.
You apply the laws that are there before you ban a vital element of the transport system which is the privately owned vehicle.

cgcsb · 06-07-2021 12:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I retracted nothing. Bus and Cycle lanes are few and far between. Cyclists generally share broad pavements with pedestrians. They've closed a lane to make a temporary 4km bike lane out to a suburb here but that is a temporary measure to see if they can induce some bike traffic but if it does work they'll put in something more permanent which isn't at the expense of motorists. Frankly I don't see it being a success as on that route any cyclist would put their bike on the commuter train and travel in at 100kmph then cycle from one of the city stations.
If cyclists want to venture on to the roads they can and if motorists don't give them the 2 metres distance they are allowed the motorist picks up a fine. If the cyclist doesn't obey the rules of the road they'll be picking up fines too.
You apply the laws that are there before you ban a vital element of the transport system which is the privately owned vehicle.

There are a significant network of cycle lanes in Munich, Nurnburg and Stuttgart and those cities are now following a policy, similar to Dublin in replacing space for cars with sustainable modes. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's what way those cities are going.

riddlinrussell · 06-07-2021 1:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I retracted nothing. Bus and Cycle lanes are few and far between. Cyclists generally share broad pavements with pedestrians. They've closed a lane to make a temporary 4km bike lane out to a suburb here but that is a temporary measure to see if they can induce some bike traffic but if it does work they'll put in something more permanent which isn't at the expense of motorists. Frankly I don't see it being a success as on that route any cyclist would put their bike on the commuter train and travel in at 100kmph then cycle from one of the city stations.
If cyclists want to venture on to the roads they can and if motorists don't give them the 2 metres distance they are allowed the motorist picks up a fine. If the cyclist doesn't obey the rules of the road they'll be picking up fines too.
You apply the laws that are there before you ban a vital element of the transport system which is the privately owned vehicle.

You seem to have a total disconnect between the things you are saying are good for the city, eg you don't seem to have an issue with this cycle lane becoming permanent, while also thinking that it being added wouldn't be 'at the expense of motorists' that may be the way things are considered in Germany, but in Ireland taking a lane from private cars to give to cyclists would be seen as exactly that.

You also get to enjoy the German police force actually applying the laws around traffic. The reason we are looking for alternative 'hard' solutions is because the Gardai are at best ineffective and at worst actively harmful in applying traffic laws, so much so that the National Transport Authority has spent at least 10 years begging to be given permission to introduce traffic cameras, as the only authorised body has absolutely abdicated its responsibility in that regard. The fact is that's not going to change any time soon, so you cant apply the same criteria you would in an efficiently policed German city.

06-07-2021 1:19pm

cgcsb wrote: »

There are a significant network of cycle lanes in Munich, Nurnburg and Stuttgart and those cities are now following a policy, similar to Dublin in replacing space for cars with sustainable modes. Sorry if you don't like that, but that's what way those cities are going.

easy to say that from a distance. Germans are not as passive as Irish and would hang a Bürgermeister who made their daily lives intolerable.

06-07-2021 1:28pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

You seem to have a total disconnect between the things you are saying are good for the city, eg you don't seem to have an issue with this cycle lane becoming permanent, while also thinking that it being added wouldn't be 'at the expense of motorists' that may be the way things are considered in Germany, but in Ireland taking a lane from private cars to give to cyclists would be seen as exactly that.

concrete movable barriers, temporary traffic lights and yellow tape markings are not permanent fixtures so I don't see that bike lane being permanent in its current form. having cycled that route before the barriers were introduced that the pavement while adequate for walking along was not satisfactory for cyclists although cyclists were expected to share it with pedestrians.

06-07-2021 1:41pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Capacity isn't reached because in addition to easing access with private transportation other transport solutions are avaiable while not being at the expense of access such as a well run public bike schemes, privately owned bikes, blanket saturation of e-scooters, public buses sharing the same road space as cars, trams sharing some of the road space with cars and an integrated transport system which means that many people in edge case scenarios don't need to consider acquiring a car...all done without banning cars in the city and much higher population densities than seen in most of D1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,etc..

I'm not sure you understand the word "capacity"

MJohnston · 06-07-2021 1:51pm

Anyway, fresh page, fresh start? Interesting to note that basically all of the likely winners in Dublin Bay South are in favour of increasing pedestrian and cycling provision in the city:
https://www.dublincommuters.ie/post/2021-dublin-bay-south-by-election-candidate-survey

Geoghegan didn't respond to the survey, but he's at least paid lip-service to the idea with his "15 minute city" lark

06-07-2021 1:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand the word "capacity"

I do. There is a finite capacity on every pipe/road/wire where factors remain fixed at specific values but when alternate strategies are employed then the capacity can increase to a certain extent or environment is changed so that capacity is not reached due to demand being reduced e.g. a re-routing of a bus service, placement of shared bike locations or even eliminating the need for stations, introduction of elektroscooters and legislation for same, mopeds having basically near zero running costs due to no tax and insurance costing only 40 euro per year, resurfacing of shared pavement, tactically positioned new car parks, intelligent traffic lights and road management systems, establishing new roads through gardens, tunnels where previously there were none, etc... all of which I can point to in the locality to ensure that the city keeps moving, remains vibrant and is viewed as a place people actually want to live in and visit.

riddlinrussell · 06-07-2021 2:40pm

Deleted User wrote: »

concrete movable barriers, temporary traffic lights and yellow tape markings are not permanent fixtures so I don't see that bike lane being permanent in its current form. having cycled that route before the barriers were introduced that the pavement while adequate for walking along was not satisfactory for cyclists although cyclists were expected to share it with pedestrians.

Missing my point, things you are seeing as 'fine' to provide cyclists with which, according to you 'don't impact on motorists' are here seen as an absolute assault on motorists, we have just witnessed a judicial hearing over a TRIAL cycle lane that received two public consultations and a public forum before implementation, even though legally the council could have simply put it down on the road without any consultations whatsoever same as relining the road or anything.

cgcsb · 06-07-2021 2:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

easy to say that from a distance. Germans are not as passive as Irish and would hang a Bürgermeister who made their daily lives intolerable.

Most germans are urban dwellers and want safe cycling and walking.

riddlinrussell · 06-07-2021 3:05pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Anyway, fresh page, fresh start? Interesting to note that basically all of the likely winners in Dublin Bay South are in favour of increasing pedestrian and cycling provision in the city:
https://www.dublincommuters.ie/post/2021-dublin-bay-south-by-election-candidate-survey

Geoghegan didn't respond to the survey, but he's at least paid lip-service to the idea with his "15 minute city" lark

Nobody but the most fringe these days is officially 'against' more walking and cycling provision, the devil is very much in the detail. Geoghegan, Conroy, even Mannix 'Anti-Cycling' Flynn, all claim to be in favour of increased pedestrianisation and cycling. but it has to be done 'in the right way' with 'proper' consultation (With what that means being wildly different from the standard process for anything else and far beyond any reasonable consultative process)

As a rule of thumb if they aren't in favour of the strand road trial, but instead the original 'boardwalk' concept, then they are effectively anti-cycling, as councillors they should know that that would take at least 4 years to go through planning and require an EIS in a protected biosphere, which will ask if they have tried all other options before they try this, which would require them to run something like the strand road trial anyway...

06-07-2021 3:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I do. There is a finite capacity on every pipe/road/wire where factors remain fixed at specific values but when alternate strategies are employed then the capacity can increase to a certain extent or environment is changed so that capacity is not reached due to demand being reduced e.g. a re-routing of a bus service, placement of shared bike locations or even eliminating the need for stations, introduction of elektroscooters and legislation for same, mopeds having basically near zero running costs due to no tax and insurance costing only 40 euro per year, resurfacing of shared pavement, tactically positioned new car parks, intelligent traffic lights and road management systems, establishing new roads through gardens, tunnels where previously there were none, etc... all of which I can point to in the locality to ensure that the city keeps moving, remains vibrant and is viewed as a place people actually want to live in and visit.

You are somewhat correct but you have missed the point. You are thinking of capacity in terms of cars only. You need to adjust your thinking to look at capacity in terms of the number of people.

There is a finite capacity of a thoroughfare for each mode of transport, which is well illustrated through the following graphic

Now a capacity of 2k for cars only works fine when you have a small population, however as your population increases the capacity is reached and maintained for longer and longer periods (rush hours).

So how do you achieve the maximum throughput on an hourly basis.

You recommend buses sharing the same space as cars, however even back as far as the 1990's we knew that didnt work and bus only lanes started to be rolled out as buses were not an attractive option prior. So a bus lane is needed in each direction to achieve additional capacity gains

Next looking at cycling, e-scooters etc, you also need safe & protected infrastructure for those too, so we're at adding additional capacity through installing the right kind of infrastructure for these modes too. Without this infrastructure you can only expect the most brave and fearless to use these modes as they would have to mix with motor traffic.

Now continue along this thoroughfare towards the city center. As you get closer and closer, the space becomes more and more limited. How do you increase capacity on routes where it is not possible to expand either side? The answer is you begin to remove the least efficient mode or at the very least you drastically reduce its priority and access to make other modes more attractive.

This is nothing new and has been and is being done in cities and towns all over the world.

This change is best illustrated below and is driven by efficiency, cost & sustainability. On the flip side, the argument for unrestricted car access is driven by emotion only. There is no logical argument to be made, which stands up to scrutiny, for continued unrestricted access for the car in our towns and cities.

06-07-2021 3:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You are somewhat correct but you have missed the point. You are thinking of capacity in terms of cars only. You need to adjust your thinking to look at capacity in terms of the number of people.

There is a finite capacity of a thoroughfare for each mode of transport, which is well illustrated through the following graphic

Now a capacity of 2k for cars only works fine when you have a small population, however as your population increases the capacity is reached and maintained for longer and longer periods (rush hours).

So how do you achieve the maximum throughput on an hourly basis.

You recommend buses sharing the same space as cars, however even back as far as the 1990's we knew that didnt work and bus only lanes started to be rolled out as buses were not an attractive option prior. So a bus lane is needed in each direction to achieve additional capacity gains

Next looking at cycling, e-scooters etc, you also need safe & protected infrastructure for those too, so we're at adding additional capacity through installing the right kind of infrastructure for these modes too. Without this infrastructure you can only expect the most brave and fearless to use these modes as they would have to mix with motor traffic.

Now continue along this thoroughfare towards the city center. As you get closer and closer, the space becomes more and more limited. How do you increase capacity on routes where it is not possible to expand either side? The answer is you begin to remove the least efficient mode or at the very least you drastically reduce its priority and access to make other modes more attractive.

This is nothing new and has been and is being done in cities and towns all over the world.

This change is best illustrated below and is driven by efficiency, cost & sustainability. On the flip side, the argument for unrestricted car access is driven by emotion only. There is no logical argument to be made, which stands up to scrutiny, for continued unrestricted access for the car in our towns and cities.

Interesting. They do be drawing some pretty graphs. Works well on paper I suppose.

06-07-2021 3:28pm

See how he sprung his trap to seed a piece of fancy..."Capacity" mentioned in thread and looking for a follow up post to give an excuse to post a flight of fancy presented as hard facts not lived anywhere outside of Utopia.

I mention roads, intelligent traffic management solutions/traffic lights and poster suggests I am talking only about cars as though buses, shared cars, mopeds, bikes don't get benefit from them. If you want a shared car you go to an underground car park where I live. buses get priority on roads through traffic management systems and controlled lights.

I'm being lectured to a lot by people who don't seem to have seen much of the world and alternate stategies used elsewhere.

06-07-2021 3:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting. They do be drawing some pretty graphs. Works well on paper I suppose.

Deleted User wrote: »

See how he sprung his trap to seed a piece of fancy..."Capacity" mentioned in thread and looking for a follow up post to give an excuse to post a flight of fancy presented as hard facts not lived anywhere outside of Utopia.

I'm being lectured to a lot by people who don't seem to have seen much of the world and alternate stategies used elsewhere.

passive aggressive silliness. If you wish to have a discussion, then discuss.

Deleted User wrote: »

I mention roads, intelligent traffic management solutions/traffic lights and poster suggests I am talking only about cars as though buses, shared cars, mopeds, bikes don't get benefit from them. If you want a shared car you go to an underground car park where I live.

Buses & bikes & escooters get benefits when they have the correct infrastructure which gives them priority over cars and ensures safe, reliable and consistent journey times.

Deleted User wrote: »

buses get priority on roads through traffic management systems and controlled lights.

100% agree, priority measures at junctions are needed across all bus routes to allow them to go through the lights ahead of cars.

However, without bus lanes such measures would be pointless and would not work.

Thelonious Monk · 06-07-2021 3:55pm

https://twitter.com/AccessForAll7/status/1412357977881907200

Look what pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are doing to the disabled and the elderly! That's a kid ffs.

AndrewJRenko · 06-07-2021 4:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They didn't come out of the activism of vested interest groups with a pathological hatred of private transport.

You seem to have a problem with people presenting anything beyond a motor centric point of view, but regardless, bus lanes and tram lanes in Dublin didn't come out of any particular forms of activism.

Deleted User wrote: »

keep up to date. Last week is more than just saturday and with a 20% gradient gaining speed is not the problem.

Just seems a bit unlikely - the person who could barely walk was also cycling too fast for their own good?

Deleted User wrote: »

Vastly more, pro-rated?? How current are your statistics. It is very hard to kill yourself in a modern car.

Please show me the sections in those studies where they dealt with injuries from falling off bikes. e-bikes have filled the emergency rooms in recent years with old people who can't stay upright on them. This neighbour also messed up his wrist last year.

Two are killed in cars each week here on average, with another pedestrian or cyclist or motorcyclist killed most weeks too. That's the current, up-to-date statistics; https://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/RSA-Statistics/
And yet, you're jumping up and down about the dangers to cyclists, despite decades of evidence confirming the health benefits of cycling, which reduces cancer rates, diabetes rates, hypertension rates, CHD rates, obesity rates - the issues that are killing large numbers of people every day. Might be time to look beyond the personal anecdata to see the bigger picture.

MJohnston · 06-07-2021 4:20pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AccessForAll7/status/1412357977881907200

Look what pedestrianisation and cycle lanes are doing to the disabled and the elderly! That's a kid ffs.

But those cars are a VITAL part of the city's public transport network :pac:

Thelonious Monk · 06-07-2021 4:34pm

MJohnston wrote: »

But those cars are a VITAL part of the city's public transport network :pac:

It's just mad that they'll bend over backwards to park all over a footpath because they don't want to commit the biggest crime there is, causing an obstacle for other motorists. It doesn't even enter their heads that people need to use footpaths.

MJohnston · 06-07-2021 4:39pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's just mad that they'll bend over backwards to park all over a footpath because they don't want to commit the biggest crime there is, causing an obstacle for other motorists. It doesn't even enter their heads that people need to use footpaths.

Something about driving has a numbing effect on the brain. Like everything is focused on operating the machinery, so all logic and empathy just bleeds out. And some never recover it when the ignition is off!

Cookiemunster · 06-07-2021 5:43pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Something about driving has a numbing effect on the brain. Like everything is focused on operating the machinery, so all logic and empathy just bleeds out. And some never recover it when the ignition is off!

There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

Thelonious Monk · 06-07-2021 6:06pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars

AndrewJRenko · 06-07-2021 6:09pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

Very few people park like dickheads? Really?

This is such a regular occurence that there are Twitter accounts set up to track them;

https://twitter.com/Dub14Blockers/media

https://twitter.com/dublin_8/media

https://twitter.com/dublinblockers/media

https://twitter.com/Dub13Blockers/media

06-07-2021 6:23pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just seems a bit unlikely - the person who could barely walk was also cycling too fast for their own good?

I still had to lock his chicken coop because he was and still is in Hospital but you have no problems insinuating that I'm a liar. You are some piece of work.

06-07-2021 6:26pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars

Is the solution to ban cars across the board or confiscate them from those who can't park them properly and adandonment rather than parking would be the proper term for cars left on pavements.
People on here are dreaming of a new paradigm without looking at the consequences for others. A little bit of enforcement of current laws would do wonders for traffic flow in Dublin.

Cookiemunster · 06-07-2021 6:37pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Very few, every bloody footpath in Dublin is covered in illegally parked cars

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Very few people park like dickheads? Really?

This is such a regular occurence that there are Twitter accounts set up to track them;

There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.

AlmightyCushion · 06-07-2021 6:44pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are dickheads everywhere. Very few people would actually park there. Quit tarring everyone with the same brush.

I live near there and regularly walk past it. Cars park all over the footpaths around there and the area in general.

Thelonious Monk · 06-07-2021 6:55pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.

There are probably about 100 cars parked fully on the footpath between where I live and my parents house, a 20 minute walk away. It's like this all over the city.
It is endemic.

MJohnston · 06-07-2021 7:46pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There are over 2 million private cars in Ireland and 2.6 million people have driving licences, but there aren't millions of cars parked illegally. So yes, very few drivers would actually park like that.

MJohnston implied every single driver in the country is an inconsiderate dick because a minority park illegally. That is quite obviously not the case and shows nothing more than his hatred of private cars.

I didn’t imply *anything* in my post, I was extremely clear and upfront about what I was saying. It’s all there in the text.

You’d do well not to entirely lie about another poster’s words whole cloth as you’ve done here.

cgcsb · 16-07-2021 9:28am

Not only a Labour politician, but an unelected (to the role of mayor) one, gets her oar in for the motor industry.

https://irishcycle.com/2021/07/15/pedestrianising-capel-street-24-7-would-inconvenience-businesses-says-new-lord-mayor/

AndrewJRenko · 16-07-2021 9:36am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117618512#Comment_117618512

Unelected? She is an elected Councillor, and elected Councillors elect the Mayor.

She does seem to have misread the public mood on this though.

riddlinrussell · 16-07-2021 10:13am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117618548#Comment_117618548

Given that one of her fellow Labour Councillors is on the anti Strand Road bandwagon I can't say I'm shocked.

It's hard to decide if the perception of the Bicycle as a 'liberating vehicle for the worker' has changed entirely (I know its perversely seen as the preserve of the wealthy MAMIL by many), or if this is just further evidence that Labour have moved very far from their founding principles...

cgcsb · 16-07-2021 10:51am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117618727#Comment_117618727

I don't get it either. Is it not meant to be a workers party? Old fashioned fuddy duddies protecting wealthy nimby residents associations.

16-07-2021 11:33am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117618727#Comment_117618727

Not to mention a Ranelagh (I think?) Labour Councillor and Ivana Bacik support legalising parking on footpaths in residential streets.

cgcsb · 16-07-2021 11:38am

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619134#Comment_117619134

She had the nerve to make her election posters of her posing with a bike. Like what message is that trying to send? And RTÉ gushed over her winning a by-election with 35% turnout after decades of failing to be elected.

Podge_irl · 16-07-2021 2:03pm

"The Lord Mayor said that Capel Street is “the” artery out of the northside when going west"

I have literally not once driven down Capel Street to go to the west. What on earth does she count as the West? Jervis st car park?

Sam Russell · 16-07-2021 3:59pm

Isn't Capel St North South, so how do you go West along it?

AndrewJRenko · 16-07-2021 9:56pm

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619149#Comment_117619149

Probably trying to send the message that she cycles regularly, which she does.

Peregrine · 17-07-2021 2:12pm

Urban street space is precious. It should not be reserved for the sporadic use of giant cars – 3,000 kilos of steel, carrying 50 kilos of entitlement. The vehicles are completely at odds with the new urban vibe. Punters are squashed on already packed pavements; pedestrians are bullied off the street by cars and a general sense of jeopardy prevails. All the while, large swathes of the street are wasted.

McWilliams isn't holding anything back against Brown Thomas this week.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-brown-thomas-has-a-car-park-problem-1.4622259

downtheroad · 19-07-2021 5:32pm

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/northside/news/car-access-to-bull-wallwooden-bridge-may-be-restricted-after-weekend-traffic-chaos-40667947.html

cgcsb · 19-07-2021 6:53pm

Ridiculous that they're still letting cars use the wooden bridge

wakka12 · 24-07-2021 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108474476#Comment_108474476

Safety? Mate the chances of you dying in a car crash on your commutes are infinitely higher than being knifed by a knacker on the bus.

24-07-2021 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655246#Comment_117655246

No, they usually wait for you to alight the Bus and then mug you at knifepoint. Don't remind people that buses in the city are especially prone to anti-social behaviour if you are trying to encourage people to use them.

wakka12 · 24-07-2021 11:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655262#Comment_117655262

I'm not necessarily encouraging busses, who said I was, what I am definitely encouraging though is fair debate and rational thoughts on the topic. And in terms of that, cars are indisputably far more dangerous and a risk to your life than travelling by bus

24-07-2021 12:10pm

Bus generally won't be a danger to your life as you won't be taking it as it won't be going where you want to go and people will rely on bike or car to get to their destination. As you will see the majority of trips in Ireland are carried out with a car yet there were so few accidents last year because cars are only getting safer year by year.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-nts/nts2016/keyf/

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Fatal%20Collision%20Stats/Provisional_Reviews_of_Fatal_Collisions/RRD_Res_20201216_RSAProvisionalReviewFatalities31December2020%20%28148%29%20full_report_updated_FINAL1.pdf

wakka12 · 24-07-2021 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117655456#Comment_117655456

I never said driving was dangerous. 'more dangerous' than something else, doesn't mean that it itself is a dangerous thing. I drive plenty myself and am not scared. I was just informing you that while being afraid for your life while driving is irrational, it's EVEN more irrational to fear for your safety while taking public transport in Ireland.

Cities around the world that are reducing car access

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