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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058419143/important-news/p1?new=1

Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #6212
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    Watch what happened when they tried leadership around Xmas though. We had a spike and the response was the media crucified them for slight deviation from the NPHET advice.

    They misstepped and the political cost of repeating that is huge.

    Look at the surveys done recently. The population is extremely conservative on this stuff and very risk averse.

    We’re getting a reflection of ourselves.

    I suspect though you’ll see toe in water and baby steps here and then once things brighten the covid era will be forgotten.

    Ireland moves very much like that. It’s not a very confrontational kind of place. The public opinion moves as the consensus positions change.

    Right now we’re still at “careful now.”

    You’re not going to get strong leadership on this, rather it’ll just fizzle back to normality as things start to show more stable positive results.


  • #6213
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    Tenger wrote: »
    Enjoy your walk through the city centre surrounded by Covid deniers, anti-maskers, right wing party members and 'energy healers'.

    :pac: I have some crystals to sell


  • #6214
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Paul Moyna from Maynooth University this morning on Pat Kenny was very reasoned with him approach. Basically saying reopen, be agile, use all tools available which aren't currently doing. He was very middle ground and measured. Pity you don't have more like him on the airwaves


  • #6215
    brickster69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,447 ✭✭✭brickster69


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    They are the leaders now in cases in Europe yet again

    I predicted several months ago on this forum that half arsed vaccinations with AZ will come bite them in rear with new variants.

    And here we are

    Possibly doing 7 million tests a week and 50% of the worlds genome sequencing might have something to do with that.

    Not much chance of finding and isolating if you don't look, even if it is to get a clue what is going on in certain areas.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • #6216
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    There are a number of issues though. Ireland tends to imagine itself as “the rebel with a cause” and “great craic” but in many ways we are quite conservative.

    We’ve also a tendency towards island mentality exceptionalism and towards wallowing in depressing discussions that tend to be about reinforcing a very negative self image. I think is very much stemming from our 19th century history and hard times in the first half of the 20th century etc.

    That strikes me as the psychological basis for where we are now.

    We’re actually doing extremely well on the vaccine drive, but there’s a very large cohort on line and in commentary who will not see anything positive in any of that. We have to be the worst, things have to be terrible etc etc - only in Ireland etc etc


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  • #6217
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

    Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.


  • #6218
    thebronze14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭thebronze14


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

    Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

    That is the most positive he's been during the whole pandemic! Further illustrates the utter madness of the decision if hospitality doesn't open


  • #6219
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,664 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

    Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

    We're through the looking glass here people


  • #6220
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    marno21 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

    Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

    Was anyone listening to him on Claire Byrne? Did they introduce him as a member of ISAG? He hasn't been been in line with the rest of ISAG members for a few months now so I'm just curious if he's left.


  • #6221
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,186 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    All this worry about the Delta variant and the simple fact is that the virus will spread like wildfire through schools from late August.

    NPHET will not be recommending closing schools then and hotels will still be serving indoors.

    It seems that NPHET are happy to allow the virus to spread in environments they approve of.


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  • #6222
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    Ireland is all about the consensus point moving. It’s the complete opposite to the USA in that regard both culturally and in terms of how politics is structured - proportional representation, multi seat constituencies etc etc

    Just watch: you’ll see the consensus begin to gradually move towards opening. Then all of a sudden the more cautious voices will be on the outside edges and next thing you’ll see this whole thing feeling like ancient history and perspectives change.

    We don’t really do the polarised debates thing at all. It’s all about finding a centre point and nudging it into different positions.

    You don’t and you won’t get dramatic executive leadership by one person. It’s about knowing where the room is going and channeling that.


  • #6223
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,664 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    FuzzyThinking wrote: »
    Ireland is all about the consensus point moving. It’s the complete opposite to the USA in that regard both culturally and in terms of how politics is structured - proportional representation, multi seat constituencies etc etc

    Just watch: you’ll see the consensus begin to gradually move towards opening. Then all of a sudden the more cautious voices will be on the outside edges and next thing you’ll see this whole thing feeling like ancient history and perspectives change.

    We don’t really do the polarised debates thing at all. It’s all about finding a centre point and nudging it into different positions.

    You don’t and you won’t get dramatic executive leadership by one person. It’s about knowing where the room is going and channeling that.

    But in Ireland the "consensus" (not that there ever really WAS one) is driven largely by the media. The media dictate what the public thinks, not the other way around.

    So long as RTE are running doom-porn on the airwaves 24/7, the public will be afraid to reopen. Even if the alternative is economic ruin - because the media havent been telling us about how scary the impending economic impact will be.


  • #6224
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    All this worry about the Delta variant and the simple fact is that the virus will spread like wildfire through schools from late August.

    NPHET will not be recommending closing schools then and hotels will still be serving indoors.

    It seems that NPHET are happy to allow the virus to spread in environments they approve of.

    It’s a simple risk analysis: adults face bigger risks and the older they are the worse those risks get.

    Vaccines are currently only approved for adults

    So we can open adult mingling safely as the vaccines get into arms.

    We’ll likely see a mRNA vaccine rollout to secondary school students this autumn and you may find approval happens for younger kids later this year.


  • #6225
    Normal One
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭Normal One


    duffman13 wrote: »
    Paul Moyna from Maynooth University this morning on Pat Kenny was very reasoned with him approach. Basically saying reopen, be agile, use all tools available which aren't currently doing. He was very middle ground and measured. Pity you don't have more like him on the airwaves
    He also made the very important point that personal responsibility needs to be exercised when we do reopen; if you aren’t fully vaccinated then be cautious. He also said that he believes those people will be cautious, which I agree with.


  • #6226
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    timmyntc wrote: »
    But in Ireland the "consensus" (not that there ever really WAS one) is driven largely by the media. The media dictate what the public thinks, not the other way around.

    So long as RTE are running doom-porn on the airwaves 24/7, the public will be afraid to reopen. Even if the alternative is economic ruin - because the media havent been telling us about how scary the impending economic impact will be.

    The public and media in Ireland very much feed each other. Calls to Joooooeee Duffy etc etc don’t come from nowhere.

    Irish media audiences always loved a “And now Mary is joining us to tell us about her brave battle with some awful illness …”

    They love human interest misery. I remember an interview with the retired State Pathologist who seemed to find it quite unusual that Irish people treated her as a celebrity.

    I think we just have a fascination with that kind of stuff here.

    I mean other than in Dublin and Cork urban areas, all the local radio stations do death notices and people even call 1550 numbers to listen back to them in some areas and nobody finds that a bit odd?


  • #6227
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

    The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

    What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.


  • #6228
    PmMeUrDogs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 771 ✭✭✭PmMeUrDogs


    seamus wrote: »
    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    I think it depends on who you're talking to tbh. I work in hospitality and there's an enormous appetite among customers for indoor dining - we have daily arguments with multiple people demanding to be sat indoors.


  • #6229
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    seamus wrote: »
    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    I am shocked that your own personal experience matches your own stated views on this matter.


  • #6230
    gral6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 738 ✭✭✭gral6


    seamus wrote: »
    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

    The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

    What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.

    This is not true at all, sorry it does not fit your narrative.


  • #6231
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I am shocked that your own personal experience matches your own stated views on this matter.

    I am not at all shocked that you've jumped in with pointless attempts at personal attacks rather than add anything to the discussion.

    I'm also not shocked at all that you haven't read any of my posts but claim of course to know what my position is.


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  • #6232
    muddypuppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 322 ✭✭muddypuppy


    seamus wrote: »
    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

    I'm surprised, but at least this explain why the pools still show support for the government. My circle of friends is mostly people between 25 and 35, and most of them aren't from Ireland, so they also can see what's going on in their home country. So far:
    - they couldn't care less about weddings, nobody I know is getting married during covid anyway.
    - events, yes.
    - indoor classes for training, not really since everyone I know that work out was just happy with gyms/swimming pools reopening. And anyway in most gyms classes are already back with "zoned training", whatever that means.
    - everybody loves to sit outside and hope this will last well after covid. But sometimes the weather is just not your friend and it's nice to have a fallback in case it rains/it's too windy. Plus outdoor space is really limited in several places.


  • #6233
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    FuzzyThinking wrote: »
    The public and media in Ireland very much feed each other. Calls to Joooooeee Duffy etc etc don’t come from nowhere.

    And they put the worst people on air.


  • #6234
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,032 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    seamus wrote: »
    I am not at all shocked that you've jumped in with pointless attempts at personal attacks rather than add anything to the discussion.

    I'm also not shocked at all that you haven't read any of my posts but claim of course to know what my position is.

    I have read your posts, you think it is no big deal that business are closed and that people should just suck it up. You also think that kids will be grand and haven't really been affected by the past year. Now you are saying that people you know aren't that bothered about seeing business reopen. Imagine that, who could have guessed.


  • #6235
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think there is a huge demand for indoor dining to be reopened. We simply don't have the climate for outdoors. A quick look at my weather app tells me that there is a big chance of rain on 5 of the next 9 days. And I recently went for outdoor dining on a fairly nice day... it was still very cold even with a hoodie on.

    You need a really cracking day for outdoor dining to really work. And we don't get too many of those in Ireland. Or you can make your outdoor area as indoor as possible.


  • #6236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    They are the leaders now in cases in Europe yet again

    I predicted several months ago on this forum that half arsed vaccinations with AZ will come bite them in rear with new variants.

    And here we are

    Cases don’t matter. It’s hospitalisations.

    This is turning into ****ing casedemic.


  • #6237
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    I have read your posts, you think it is no big deal that business are closed and that people should just suck it up. You also think that kids will be grand and haven't really been affected by the past year. Now you are saying that people you know aren't that bothered about seeing business reopen. Imagine that, who could have guessed.
    Imagine being this wrong.

    I'm scarlet for your ma.

    Your entire point is that covid isn't that bad, everything should have been open months ago, and 90% of this whole thing is Tony on an ego trip backed up by media fearmongering. Of course, it's not just because you want to be able to go back to the pub and sit inside. That's just incidental...

    Anyway, another for the ignore list. No point in engaging in the same nonsense over and over.


  • #6238
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Went into town ( Dublin ) for a few drinks on Saturday night with 4 friends,
    We went to a place that has a very large out door area , one of those that feels like your inside so it was great ,

    When we arrived we had to walk through the inside to get to the covered area at the back ,the place is connected to a hotel and the whole inside was full of people eating & drinking who where residents in the hotel, it was like a normal weekend except for no people standing around by the bar ordering drinks ,

    How does covid know who is a resident, makes no sense at all ,


  • #6239
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    muddypuppy wrote: »
    I'm surprised, but at least this explain why the pools still show support for the government.
    Yeah, I spoke to a lot of people (compared to the last 15 months anyway :D) over the weekend, and there's still a surprising amount of fear out there from the older cohorts; the ones who are already vaccinated.

    I was surprised, I was expecting them to be all booking different restaurants and going to see people every other day, but there's still quite a bit of reluctance.

    I think these were the age groups who've been found to put more trust in the traditional media, so obviously the discussion on variants is taking its toll.

    This is most likely where the polls are finding this support for restrictions and the government response.


  • #6240
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Leo has said a delay is "not inevitable".


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  • #6241
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    seamus wrote: »
    Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

    But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

    The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

    What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.

    I suppose though, the question I’d ask in response to that is: if indoor dining and pubs are reopened do you think those establishments won’t be popular? Are we really assuming that the majority of people would refuse to sit inside?

    I think having this qualification of only vaccinated people being able to sit inside just unnecessarily over-complicates things. At this stage, anyone who remains afraid of getting Covid or is in a position of risk until they get a vaccine should not be going to restaurants or pubs anyway.


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