Covid-19 likely to be man made

pearcider wrote: »

You’re a shill. Albeit a poor one.

Lol. This old desperate chestnut again.

Who do you think is paying him?
How do you know he's a shill and not just someone who disagrees with you?
Is everyone who doesn't immediately agree with you part of the conspiracy?

If you're going to throw out a wild accusation like this, at least have the spine to attempt to back it up.
Otherwise, it's just more dishonest tactics to avoid thinking too hard about the conspiracy theory.

King Mob wrote: »

Lol. This old desperate chestnut again.

Who do you think is paying him?
How do you know he's a shill and not just someone who disagrees with you?
Is everyone who doesn't immediately agree with you part of the conspiracy?

If you're going to throw out a wild accusation like this, at least have the spine to attempt to back it up.
Otherwise, it's just more dishonest tactics to avoid thinking too hard about the conspiracy theory.

I was told in 2014 that this pandemic was going to happen and I was ordered to set up a boards account so seven years later I could get paid to disagree with conspiracy theorists on here :pac:

Good old George Soros/Bill Gates/Big Pharma sure do know how to plan ahead

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You think the poster is paid to disagree with you?

A shill in the sense of not being genuine or holding an actual opinion. All he does is post smart comments designed to ridicule the posters who can see the numerous disturbing elements (man made origin from a US funded CCP bio weapons lab, completely choreographed and OTT reactions by western governments, control of any and all dissent in the media and on the internet, vaccine “passports” and the clear infringement of privacy that they represent , biggest clinical trial in history) of covid for what they are. These are valid concerns and all he does is post sarcastic and childish one liners. He is a troll at best and a shill at worst.

pearcider wrote: »

A shill in the sense of not being genuine or holding an actual opinion. All he does is post smart comments designed to ridicule

That's not what a shill is.

pearcider wrote: »

posters who can see the numerous disturbing elements (man made origin from a US funded CCP bio weapons lab, completely choreographed and OTT reactions by western governments, control of any and all dissent in the media and on the internet, vaccine “passports” and the clear infringement of privacy that they represent , biggest clinical trial in history) of covid for what they are. These are valid concerns and all he does is post sarcastic and childish one liners. He is a troll at best and a shill at worst.

Those aren't the valid concerns though. Those are all the silly conspiracy theories that land this thread in this forum.

The valid concern is that the virus might have been altered in a lab, it then leaked and there might have been a coverup by the Chinese government and/or parts of WHO and the US government.

But this isn't fun for you guys, hence you have to make up all the rest.

pearcider wrote: »

You’re the one in here trying to stifle debate. Which you’ve been doing for years. You and your pendantic mate are obsessed.

Lol.

Again asking people to explain their beliefs and asking basic questions does not stifle debate.

It only stifles people from making nonsense claims without being challenged.

What does stifle debate is falsely accusing people of being paid to disagree with you and then ignoring questions you can't answer honestly.

pearcider wrote: »

A shill in the sense of not being genuine or holding an actual opinion. All he does is post smart comments designed to ridicule the posters who can see the numerous disturbing elements (man made origin from a US funded CCP bio weapons lab, completely choreographed and OTT reactions by western governments, control of any and all dissent in the media and on the internet, vaccine “passports” and the clear infringement of privacy that they represent , biggest clinical trial in history) of covid for what they are. These are valid concerns and all he does is post sarcastic and childish one liners. He is a troll at best and a shill at worst.

All you have done is listed all of the silly conspiracies you believe in, if you don't like my posts then please feel free to place me on ignore so your feelings are not hurt by them again.

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

Again, it's important to emphasise what's really going on in these labs. The 'altered' viruses created there are just re-combinations of properties of natural viruses, that not only can, but will happen naturally at a later point in time. The goal of the research is to predict what's happening in nature.


So, even if one of the viruses created in a lab somehow escaped, the only thing it means for the pandemic is that it happened a few weeks or months earlier than with the same virus evolving in nature.

Agree with your first point on the goal of the research. You second point though is speculation, as the evolution of a virus from being harmless to highly infectious to humans can take decades or even centuries. The closest known relative to SARS-CoV-2 is RaTG13, and the estimates are it would have taken 40-70 years for it to cross that evolutionary gap. The MERS virus is thought to have jumped to camels from bats 500 years ago before becoming infectious to humans in the last decade.

So there is either a SARS virus out there in bats (or an animal infected by bats) that is very close to SARS-CoV-2 (like 99.5%), and we haven't found it yet, or the evolutionary process was sped up. That could have happened in a lab or potentially in an environment like a mink or racoon dog farm where there is the potential for accelerated passaging.

The latter is the issue scientists are struggling with, why is there no evidence of a virus similar to SARS-CoV-2 infecting humans earlier than December 2019? A normal zoonotic transfer would involve numerous attempts to cross the species boundary, with evidence left of the virus evolving within humans and becoming more infectious. This is exactly what we found with SARS-CoV-1. We've found no evidence of this despite testing tens of thousands of blood samples prior to December 2019, and obviously found no animal infected with a similar virus prior to the human outbreak, the animals infected since then were infected by humans. So we have no intermediary animal or prior evidence in humans which suggests a very recent event.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Sorry but, how can anyone believe that GOF is meant to create mutations that otherwise would occur in nature?
That post doesn't deserve any additional comments, it comments itself

and dont feel bad if I don't thank your posts.

Second post where you don't explain to the poster where they are wrong, will there be a third?

I would be extremely worried if you were thanking my posts

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Sorry but, how can anyone believe that GOF is meant to create mutations that otherwise would occur in nature?

Just for the record, the source is here (German). That's one of the most prominent virologists on the planet, who has been working on Coronaviruses for many years.



I'm pointing this out, because the quality of sources is important.
A politician with a political agenda is not a valid scientific source.
A conspiracy video site is not a valid scientific source.
Facebook is not a valid scientific source.

It's good to see an eminent virologist like Drosten agree that Peter Daszak being a member of the WHO investigative team was a conflict of interest.

Gain of Function is an extraordinarily complex area, covering a broad spectrum of research. In terms of the relevant research conducted at the WIV and jointly between the US and the WIV, the published effort is to study the effects of adding functionality to existing SARS-CoV viruses, using a variety of methods (genetic engineering, passaging), to determine if they add to transmissibility or pathogenicity. In broader terms, there are a variety of GOF experiments that range from recreating or modifying viruses that exist in nature, to creating viruses that do not exist in nature (gain of function research of concern). The experiments that have been documented in the US and WIV involve taking CoV viruses that exist in nature and replacing genetic sequences in them, so it's the former category.

I think being honest we have limited information on what the WIV or other Chinese labs have been doing, or for that matter labs in the US and Europe. Who knows what riskier GOF or dual use programs are going on. What we can say is if SARS-2 leaked from the WIV or another lab in Wuhan, it means they were working on the virus, so either they collected it in the wild or they modified an existing virus. It would be quite remarkable if SARS-2 existed in the wild and had not infected anyone until December 2019, so if it came from the lab it most likely resulted from GOF experiments.

So we don't know, which is what Drosten is saying. SARS-2 could have evolved in nature or been created in a lab via GOF, there is nothing obvious in the genome that excludes either possibility.

Mod: Cut out the bickering, if you have nothing to add to the topic, don't post.

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