Lions Tour

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 09:06AM

TRC10 wrote: »

Wow, I didn't see that coming.

Incredible honour for Murray. I'm absolutely chuffed for him.

It says a lot about how highly he's regarded and the influence he has in camp. He's never even captained Munster, and now he's leading the Lions on tour.

He's on a list with some absolute Irish greats. Willie John, POC, BOD.

I stand corrected here.

Just found a game from 2014 where he was captain.

Not sure if he's done it at all since then but correct me if I'm wrong.

I honestly thought he'd go for Ken Owens as he has lots of experience as Scarlets captain and captained vs The Blues in NZ. He's also a fairly safe bet to start.

But I'm absolutely delighted for Murray. He's clearly regarded as a big leader so it's strange that he was never really considered for Ireland captain when Best retired.

sydthebeat · 27-06-2021 09:08AM

Murray was very very good yesterday... Would have been in the "excellent" only for a small few box kicks that went either short or long. His passing was crisp and varied and he led the pack around the park.

None of the other 9s in the squad currently comes anywhere near him and his abilities off his boot....
So when deciding on the captain it mashes sense to be choosing the most looked in player with the most lions experience.

Notable mention for Ken owens as possibly the next closest lock in with experience, but maybe gats isn't yet convinced who his starting 2 is

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 09:11AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Murray was very very good yesterday... Would have been in the "excellent" only for a small few box kicks that went either short or long. His passing was crisp and varied and he led the pack around the park.

None of the other 9s in the squad currently comes anywhere near him and his abilities off his boot....
So when deciding on the captain it mashes sense to be choosing the most looked in player with the most lions experience.

Notable mention for Ken owens as possibly the next closest lock in with experience, but maybe gats isn't yet convinced who his starting 2 is

He made 1 error in the first half when he tried to snipe back down the way they came and got isolated and turned over.

But apart from that I thought he played really well. His kicking was more or less on the money, his service was very good and his playmaking was also great. He played what was in front of him and wasn't afraid to change the point of the attack when it was on. Which is something I've been critical of him for at times.

I'd be amazed if Davies or Price beat him to the 9 jersey...even more so now.

theVersatile · 27-06-2021 10:15AM

Has anybody got a link handy to that 6N Stats Comparison Tool thing? Might be worth a gander to see Beard's true statistical impact rather than just eye rolling and biching

jacothelad · 27-06-2021 10:44AM

TRC10 wrote: »

Wow, I didn't see that coming.

Incredible honour for Murray. I'm absolutely chuffed for him.

It says a lot about how highly he's regarded and the influence he has in camp. He's never even captained Munster, and now he's leading the Lions on tour.

He's on a list with some absolute Irish greats. Willie John, POC, BOD.

PLus......

Ciaran Fitzgerald,

Tom Kiernan,

Ronnie Dawson,

Robin Thompson,

Karl Mullin,

Sammy Walker,

Tom Smith,

and my favourite......Tom Crean.......He became captain of The British & Irish Lions on the 1896 Tour to South Africa after Johnny Hammond suffered an injury early in the trip. He played 21 times on the Tour in total, including in all four Tests, as he guided the tourists to a 3-1 series victory – even scoring a try in the second match with the Springboks.

In addition to his success with the Lions, Crean also featured nine times for Ireland before fighting in both the Boer War and World War One, earning the Victoria Cross.

Also, while not a tour captain, POM also captained the B&I Lions in a test;

RugbyLover123 · 27-06-2021 10:49AM

15 tackles in 30 minutes for Sinkler yesterday

Clegg · 27-06-2021 11:38AM

The entire South African team has gone into isolation after three positive tests.

This'll set their preparations back by at least a week. Hopefully everyone will be ok.
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1409113632001118214?s=09

salmocab · 27-06-2021 11:59AM

Clegg wrote: »

The entire South African team has gone into isolation after three positive tests.

This'll set their preparations back by at least a week. Hopefully everyone will be ok.
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1409113632001118214?s=09

Presumably they can isolate and train together?
I find it hard to see there not being some issues on this tour.

Clegg · 27-06-2021 12:28PM

salmocab wrote: »

Presumably they can isolate and train together?
I find it hard to see there not being some issues on this tour.

The entire South African team has been vaccinated apparently as have their Lions counterparts. So ther probably shouldn't be issues with them.training together. But who knows what the protocol actually is for this?

Kinsella says there is talk of moving 5 matches from Johannesburg to Cape Town.

crossman47 · 27-06-2021 12:49PM

bilston wrote: »

Congrats to Conor. I was surprised when I first heard the news, it definitely came out of left field, but he is probably nailed on as anyone can be in the team and is quite calm on the pitch as well which contrasts to someoneike Owen Farrell. Also, if he isn't the most experienced Lion in the squad now he would be pretty close.

Well done Murray. Shows he's better regarded outside Ireland than at home where his critics have been numerous (and generally wrong).

youcancallmeal · 27-06-2021 01:04PM

Clegg wrote: »

Kinsella says there is talk of moving 5 matches from Johannesburg to Cape Town.

Is that just to avoid the teams travelling around? Probably makes sense

clsmooth · 27-06-2021 01:07PM

crossman47 wrote: »

Well done Murray. Shows he's better regarded outside Ireland than at home where his critics have been numerous (and generally wrong).

Delighted for him. He was absolute top quality between 2013-2018. I don’t think it’s unfair to say his form has dipped from those levels though. Tailor made for the game they appear to want to play in South Africa.

prawnsambo · 27-06-2021 01:08PM

youcancallmeal wrote: »

Is that just to avoid the teams travelling around? Probably makes sense

Gauteng province where Johannesburg is and the team were supposed to be based for the first four matches has a pretty bad outbreak of Covid at the moment. Cases have risen dramaticaly.

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 01:09PM

clsmooth wrote: »

Delighted for him. He was absolute top quality between 2013-2018. I don’t think it’s unfair to say his form has dipped from those levels though. Tailor made for the game they appear to want to play in South Africa.

Since the first 15 minutes of the England game I think he's been excellent.

His performance at the RDS v Leinster and against Toulouse were brilliant

Bazzo · 27-06-2021 01:27PM

jacothelad wrote: »

PLus......

Ciaran Fitzgerald,

Tom Kiernan,

Ronnie Dawson,

Robin Thompson,

Karl Mullin,

Sammy Walker,

Tom Smith,

and my favourite......Tom Crean.......He became captain of The British & Irish Lions on the 1896 Tour to South Africa after Johnny Hammond suffered an injury early in the trip. He played 21 times on the Tour in total, including in all four Tests, as he guided the tourists to a 3-1 series victory – even scoring a try in the second match with the Springboks.

In addition to his success with the Lions, Crean also featured nine times for Ireland before fighting in both the Boer War and World War One, earning the Victoria Cross.

Also, while not a tour captain, POM also captained the B&I Lions in a test;

Were you on that tour yourself Jaco?

Shaka Hislop · 27-06-2021 01:50PM

Bazzo wrote: »

Were you on that tour yourself Jaco?

He had retired by then

Just in case people are thinking Kerrymen are absolutely unbeatable...it's not that! Tom Crean

Richie_Rich89 · 27-06-2021 01:51PM

Fantastic achievement by Conor. He's one of the greatest scrumhalves of his generation. It's between him and Smith.

ClanofLams · 27-06-2021 02:03PM

Missed the game yesterday, watched today, Aki was one of the best players on the field, himself and Henshaw look very comfortable together. Think he’s in the mix for a test place, if Farrell was nailed on at 12, he would have likely got captain I’m guessing.

Clegg · 27-06-2021 02:16PM

Every time I watch Aki play I'm constantly startled at how big he actually is. He's built broader than most backrows.

salmocab · 27-06-2021 02:20PM

Clegg wrote: »

The entire South African team has been vaccinated apparently as have their Lions counterparts. So ther probably shouldn't be issues with them.training together. But who knows what the protocol actually is for this?

Kinsella says there is talk of moving 5 matches from Johannesburg to Cape Town.

If they are getting cases despite vaccination then they might have to be kept separate I suppose and the one they mixed with would too. Logistically I could see this tour being a mess, cases in camp could mean test matches scratched.

Shaka Hislop · 27-06-2021 02:31PM

Clegg wrote: »

Every time I watch Aki play I'm constantly startled at how big he actually is. He's built broader than most backrows.

I think he's going to start the first test, Gatland and Tandy seem to love his defensive brilliance.... Farrell is probably looking at the bench in that one

aloooof · 27-06-2021 02:46PM

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

I think he's going to start the first test, Gatland and Tandy seem to love his defensive brilliance.... Farrell is probably looking at the bench in that one

The one issue with his defence is his tackle technique. But that’s not exactly making a case for Farrell either.

youcancallmeal · 27-06-2021 03:08PM

There was talk on RTE radio that they might do away with the warm up matches altogether and just play the 3 test matches. I guess it's not completely out of the question, will have to wait and see

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 03:31PM

youcancallmeal wrote: »

There was talk on RTE radio that they might do away with the warm up matches altogether and just play the 3 test matches. I guess it's not completely out of the question, will have to wait and see

I can't see that happening.

Not only would it mean half the squad won't even play.

But you may as well hand SA the series now if they expect 15 lads who've never played together to rock up and beat the world champions.

Also, locking 37 men away for a month in a foreign country and not letting them play isn't really a viable option.

Anyway, the provincial games are an integral part of Lions tours.

Burkie1203 · 27-06-2021 03:34PM

https://twitter.com/neilfissler/status/1409173105528999938?s=19

bilston · 27-06-2021 03:51PM

ClanofLams wrote: »

Missed the game yesterday, watched today, Aki was one of the best players on the field, himself and Henshaw look very comfortable together. Think he’s in the mix for a test place, if Farrell was nailed on at 12, he would have likely got captain I’m guessing.

Agree. Bundee is the sort of 12 that Gatland likes. Even as Ireland coach it was Maggs or Henderson at 12, with Wales it was Jamie Roberts and Scott Williams. The one exception being the last Lions tour in the 2nd and 3rd tests with Sexton and Farrell at 10 and 12, even then he went with Ben Te'o in the 1st Test.

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 04:09PM

bilston wrote: »

Agree. Bundee is the sort of 12 that Gatland likes. Even as Ireland coach it was Maggs or Henderson at 12, with Wales it was Jamie Roberts and Scott Williams. The one exception being the last Lions tour in the 2nd and 3rd tests with Sexton and Farrell at 10 and 12, even then he went with Ben Te'o in the 1st Test.

No, Gavin Henson in his early years with Wales.

Gatland is a pragmatist. He'll do what he needs to do to win.

Roberts, Williams and Parkes happened to be the best 12s he had for that period so he used them and played to their strengths.

But in his early years, Henson (who is in the complete oposite mould of 12) was the best he had so he used him and played to his strengths.

Te'o went well v the Crusaders and the MABs but as soon as he knew it wouldn't work, he changed it and brought Sexton in and shifted Farrell to 12.

Gatland is very much a pragmatist.

Richie_Rich89 · 27-06-2021 04:21PM

TRC10 wrote: »

No, Gavin Henson in his early years with Wales.

Gatland is a pragmatist. He'll do what he needs to do to win.

Roberts, Williams and Parkes happened to be the best 12s he had for that period so he used them and played to their strengths.

But in his early years, Henson (who is in the complete oposite mould of 12) was the best he had so he used him and played to his strengths.

Te'o went well v the Crusaders and the MABs but as soon as he knew it wouldn't work, he changed it and brought Sexton in and shifted Farrell to 12.

Gatland is very much a pragmatist.

How much did Henson as first-choice 12 and Gatland as coach overlap. Not by much, I'd have thought.

TRC10 · 27-06-2021 04:33PM

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

How much did Henson as first-choice 12 and Gatland as coach overlap. Not by much, I'd have thought.

2008-2009

His first 2 seasons in charge

Burkie1203 · 27-06-2021 04:34PM

The idea of the tour being played out almost entirely in Cape Town is increasingly likely and the SA president is to address the nation in a few hours

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