Janssen concerns

Stallingrad · 25-06-2021 9:05am #1

Apologies if this has been covered. I received the Janssen a few weeks ago, and while relieved to get it, I was a bit disappointed that I was not getting Pfizer or another two dose vaccine, having heard that its efficacy rates were not as good as some of the other vaccines.

Unfortunately this feeling has been compounded by the recent news of two doses being far more effective against the Delta.

Does anyone know if getting a second Jansen jab is an option, and are there plans to increase it to a two dose programme?

munchkin_utd · 25-06-2021 9:34am

Stallingrad wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered. I received the Janssen a few weeks ago, and while relieved to get it, I was a bit disappointed that I was not getting Pfizer or another two dose vaccine, having heard that its efficacy rates were not as good as some of the other vaccines.

Unfortunately this feeling has been compounded by the recent news of two doses being far more effective against the Delta.

Does anyone know if getting a second Jansen jab is an option, and are there plans to increase it to a two dose programme?

why are you disappointed ?

The difference between effective and non effective is that you get sniffles or not. It still will amost certainly keep you out of hospital and 100% stop you from dieing - so for a vaccine against a disease that could otherwise put you into hospital for months or kill you, not too shabby.

I've j+j as does the mrs and a number of others I know and everyone is delighted to have gotten it.

If you were to hijack another dose of the J+J vaccine to make you feel better (but not actually achieve much), then until the country has sufficent vaccines for the full population, you are denying someone else the chance to be fully vaccinated and potentially landing them into hospital or death.

There will be booster jabs later in the year so best wait till then (and maybe let the 99year old pensioners with weak immune systems get theirs first too )

Wolf359f · 25-06-2021 9:35am

Stallingrad wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered. I received the Janssen a few weeks ago, and while relieved to get it, I was a bit disappointed that I was not getting Pfizer or another two dose vaccine, having heard that its efficacy rates were not as good as some of the other vaccines.

Unfortunately this feeling has been compounded by the recent news of two doses being far more effective against the Delta.

Does anyone know if getting a second Jansen jab is an option, and are there plans to increase it to a two dose programme?

Janssen have a 2 dose trial underway, I'm not sure when they will have results. For Delta, we use the UK for data, but they haven't been using J&J, the only other place would the the US, however it's going to take time to see data relating to that vs Delta.

funnydoggy · 25-06-2021 10:24am

having heard that its efficacy rates were not as good as some of the other vaccines.

There's no data on this yet, not wise to make assumptions just yet. Fingers crossed it's as effective!

ted1 · 25-06-2021 10:28am

J&J is the holy grail. 1 does and your are sorted..

25-06-2021 10:44am

ted1 wrote: »

J&J is the holy grail. 1 does and your are sorted..

I’ve had the J&J a d that is how I see. I do have a sneaky feeling we’ll be called back for a booster sooner than others though.

Stallingrad · 25-06-2021 10:53am

Wolf359f wrote: »

Janssen have a 2 dose trial underway, I'm not sure when they will have results. For Delta, we use the UK for data, but they haven't been using J&J, the only other place would the the US, however it's going to take time to see data relating to that vs Delta.

Appreciate the informed response rather than the previous sanctimonious lecture.

astrofool · 25-06-2021 11:17am

J&J/Janssen performed very well in trials which had the newer variants included (the mRNA trials didn't have these so results aren't directly comparable), I would not be worried in the slightest.

J&J/Janssen are also a very skilled and technically capable company and their trials went very well, they also responded very quickly in both identifying the cause and remediation for any CVST issues.

keno-daytrader · 25-06-2021 1:16pm

I suspect the efficacy of J&J is very similar to AZ as they are both viral vector vaccines. So its logical to think that those who have gotten J&J will need a booster sooner than people given 2 doses of the MRNA's or AZ.

I think the emergence of the Delta variant and subsequent huge push in both the UK and Ireland to get AZ seconds doses done because of the reduced efficacy for 1 dose AZ or MRNA vaccines (NIAC reduced from 16 to 8 weeks the interval) will necessitate the need for a sooner booster for J&J recipients.

Sadly I dont think it will be 1 and done or "game changer" as was touted.

noodler · 25-06-2021 1:20pm

I can't emphasize the initial response to the OP enough that the difference in efficacy is fairly negligible.

25-06-2021 1:43pm

astrofool wrote: »

J&J/Janssen performed very well in trials which had the newer variants included (the mRNA trials didn't have these so results aren't directly comparable), I would not be worried in the slightest.

J&J/Janssen are also a very skilled and technically capable company and their trials went very well, they also responded very quickly in both identifying the cause and remediation for any CVST issues.

I know a German scientist has a theory on the cause, and was assisting J&J with their research, but the vaccine has not been adapted at this point. So the risk is still there, however low.

astrofool · 25-06-2021 1:43pm

keno-daytrader wrote: »

I suspect the efficacy of J&J is very similar to AZ as they are both viral vector vaccines. So its logical to think that those who have gotten J&J will need a booster sooner than people given 2 doses of the MRNA's or AZ.

I think the emergence of the Delta variant and subsequent huge push in both the UK and Ireland to get AZ seconds doses done because of the reduced efficacy for 1 dose AZ or MRNA vaccines (NIAC reduced from 16 to 8 weeks the interval) will necessitate the need for a sooner booster for J&J recipients.

Sadly I dont think it will be 1 and done or "game changer" as was touted.

Apart from the dosing being different between the 2 vaccines, they are similar vaccines, but they are not the same. The efficacy and effectiveness of 1 dose J&J was excellent including against the variants in circulation at the time (SA and Brazil).

.42. · 25-06-2021 1:51pm

Aren't all the vaccines 100 percent effective against serious COVID-19 illness that result in Hospitalisations?

DublinWriter · 25-06-2021 2:03pm

.42. wrote: »

Aren't all the vaccines 100 percent effective against serious COVID-19 illness that result in Hospitalisations?

No, but you are stacking the odds greatly in your favour by being vaccinated in the first place.

Stallingrad · 25-06-2021 2:37pm

keno-daytrader wrote: »

I suspect the efficacy of J&J is very similar to AZ as they are both viral vector vaccines. So its logical to think that those who have gotten J&J will need a booster sooner than people given 2 doses of the MRNA's or AZ.

I think the emergence of the Delta variant and subsequent huge push in both the UK and Ireland to get AZ seconds doses done because of the reduced efficacy for 1 dose AZ or MRNA vaccines (NIAC reduced from 16 to 8 weeks the interval) will necessitate the need for a sooner booster for J&J recipients.

I appreciate the reassurances about the JJ efficacy. Luke O'Neil was discussing the potential need for a second dose of the Janssen a few weeks back, it does seem inevitable really.

This comes back to my concerns about the Janssen, with the other vaccines you are part of a two dose system, get the first and for will get the second weeks later. With J&J, assuming they change it to a two dose, who knows when that will be? Supply is a huge problem currently so it may be some time before we see it.

Certainly there are no silver bullets here.

afatbollix · 25-06-2021 3:17pm

I'm part of the 2 shot Jansen or J&J trial.

Last time I was in I spoke to the doctors and profs they said that the results were still great for the 1 shot. That the 2 shot trial while great wouldn't be needed in the end.

Here's what I think, The UK government is using this to get as many people convinced to get the 2nd jab.

I will ask if there are any more results when I go in again next week for my 6 month check up and bloods.

MadYaker · 25-06-2021 3:59pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

I appreciate the reassurances about the JJ efficacy. Luke O'Neil was discussing the potential need for a second dose of the Janssen a few weeks back, it does seem inevitable really.

This comes back to my concerns about the Janssen, with the other vaccines you are part of a two dose system, get the first and for will get the second weeks later. With J&J, assuming they change it to a two dose, who knows when that will be? Supply is a huge problem currently so it may be some time before we see it.

Certainly there are no silver bullets here.

I’d relax. Everyone will be getting a booster of some sort before the end of this year. By the end of 2021 most of the worlds population still won’t have even had one vaccine so we’ll be dealing with variants for a while and as far as I can tell that means booster vaccinations for everyone.

corkie · 26-06-2021 12:47pm

(Reuters) Booster may be needed for J&J shot as Delta variant spreads, some experts already taking them
"J&J said it is testing whether the immune response from its vaccine is capable of neutralizing the Delta variant in a laboratory setting, but no data is available yet.

Both mRNA vaccines showed efficacy rates around 95% in large U.S. trials, while J&J’s vaccine was 66% effective in preventing moderate-to-severe COVID-19 globally when more contagious variants were circulating."

(nbcboston) Will J&J Vaccine Protect Against Delta COVID Variant? Boston Doctors Weigh in
"The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are still nearly 90-percent effective against the variant, as long as people receive both doses. The experts say the single-dose J&J vaccine remains a good option, as well, but it only works about 60-percent of time.

”This will protect them against getting very sick and being hospitalized and even dying from the Delta variant,” Gergen-Barnett said."

hmmm · 26-06-2021 12:56pm

The use of the term "protection" in reporting seems to be causing a lot of confusion. The media (and scientists) really need to start clearly differentiating between protection from any symptoms, and protection from severe disease.

If you're more likely to get a headcold or spend a day in bed it's not the end of the world. That's my reading of the "reduced protection" announced for every vaccine so far.

If you have a very old relative you visit, or someone in your family reacts poorly to vaccines, you might need to be more careful until we have more data, but for the vast majority of people with any vaccine it doesn't look like much changes.

Tenger · 26-06-2021 1:50pm

afatbollix wrote: »

I'm part of the 2 shot Jansen or J&J trial.

Last time I was in I spoke to the doctors and profs they said that the results were still great for the 1 shot. That the 2 shot trial while great wouldn't be needed in the end.

Here's what I think, The UK government is using this to get as many people convinced to get the 2nd jab.

I will ask if there are any more results when I go in again next week for my 6 month check up and bloods.

Is the "2 shot Jansen trial" just going to be another shot of the same one?

I got the Jansen shot myself a while back. I dont have any major worries about it. Technically it is less effective (based on the trail data) but in reality it not a big difference.

Delta2113 · 26-06-2021 2:04pm

"Because of the difference in the trials, making direct comparisons is a bit like comparing apples and oranges."

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/02/comparing-the-covid-19-vaccines-developed-by-pfizer-moderna-and-johnson-johnson/

JPup · 26-06-2021 2:33pm

While there is no formal data published, it is a reasonable concern on your part. We have been told that one shot of AZ is notably less effective than 2 shots in dealing with the delta variant. It is a reasonable assumption to think the same might be true of J&J.

I suspect you will eventually be offered a booster of Pfizer or Moderna but not for some months yet. In the meantime, you might be able to source a second dose yourself through a pharmacy or GP but I suspect you will find that very difficult until there is a formal Irish government opinion given on the merits of second doses for those who got J&J.

noodler · 28-06-2021 7:17am

JPup wrote: »

While there is no formal data published, it is a reasonable concern on your part. We have been told that one shot of AZ is notably less effective than 2 shots in dealing with the delta variant. It is a reasonable assumption to think the same might be true of J&J.

I suspect you will eventually be offered a booster of Pfizer or Moderna but not for some months yet. In the meantime, you might be able to source a second dose yourself through a pharmacy or GP but I suspect you will find that very difficult until there is a formal Irish government opinion given on the merits of second doses for those who got J&J.

Again,the State has bought about 7m vaccines for NEXT year already.

The possibility of everyone, regardless of Vaccine type, needing a booster seems to be a significant possibility.

Lumen · 28-06-2021 7:32am

JPup wrote: »

While there is no formal data published, it is a reasonable concern on your part. We have been told that one shot of AZ is notably less effective than 2 shots in dealing with the delta variant. It is a reasonable assumption to think the same might be true of J&J.

From memory the same is true of Pfizer too! 36% efficacy of first dose against delta.

Didn't get as much attention as AZ's 30% because in the UK there were vastly more AZ one-dosers than Pfizer one-dosers, due to dosing strategy and relative supplies.

Sleeper12 · 28-06-2021 8:50am

Stallingrad wrote:

Does anyone know if getting a second Jansen jab is an option, and are there plans to increase it to a two dose programme?

Luke O Neil said late last week that he believes that people who got j&j will most likely be offered a booster in the Autumn

Sleeper12 · 28-06-2021 8:53am

noodler wrote:

I can't emphasize the initial response to the OP enough that the difference in efficacy is fairly negligible.

Based on what data? There is little or no real life data on j&j against Delta at the moment.

STB. · 28-06-2021 11:27am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Based on what data? There is little or no real life data on j&j against Delta at the moment.

Indeed.

UK studies show that two doses of either the Pfizer/BioNTech or AstraZeneca vaccines are significantly more protective against the variant than one.

I think boosters will become fairly common as we see the inevitable emergence of more variants (hopefully we don't come across a super resistant strain). Africa has less than 1% vaccinated. That's were the trouble lies.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/booster-may-be-needed-jj-shot-delta-variant-spreads-some-experts-already-taking-2021-06-25/

astrofool · 28-06-2021 1:38pm

noodler wrote: »

Again,the State has bought about 7m vaccines for NEXT year already.

The possibility of everyone, regardless of Vaccine type, needing a booster seems to be a significant possibility.

I could see a booster becoming in use for 60+, maybe 50+,unless there is a vaccine escape from a brand new variant that hasn't occurred yet, the need for a booster below that age is low.

However, I do foresee it being incorporated into the annual flu vaccine, probably in 2022, and maybe for a few years before being dropped entirely as not really needed (similar to smallpox and the BCG vaccines).

However, all countries should be planning as if everyone needs a booster.

29-06-2021 9:38pm

astrofool wrote: »

I could see a booster becoming in use for 60+, maybe 50+,unless there is a vaccine escape from a brand new variant that hasn't occurred yet, the need for a booster below that age is low.

However, I do foresee it being incorporated into the annual flu vaccine, probably in 2022, and maybe for a few years before being dropped entirely as not really needed (similar to smallpox and the BCG vaccines).

However, all countries should be planning as if everyone needs a booster.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/who-is-most-at-risk-from-the-delta-variant.html

Exactly nobody under 50 in UK, fully vaxxed has died from delta.

keno-daytrader · 02-07-2021 12:18pm

JNJ posted this this morning, seems good news vs the Delta variant.

NEW BRUNSWICK, N.J., July 1, 2021 – Johnson & Johnson (NYSE: JNJ) (the Company) today announced data that demonstrated its single-shot COVID-19 vaccine generated strong, persistent activity against the rapidly spreading Delta variant and other highly prevalent SARS-CoV-2 viral variants. In addition, the data showed that the durability of the immune response lasted through at least eight months, the length of time evaluated to date. The two preprint study summaries have been submitted today to bioRxiv.

These data showed that the Johnson & Johnson single-shot COVID-19 vaccine elicited neutralizing antibody activity against the Delta variant at an even higher level than what was recently observed for the Beta (B.1.351) variant in South Africa where high efficacy against severe/critical disease was demonstrated.

In the ENSEMBLE trial, Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose COVID-19 vaccine was 85 percent effective against severe/critical disease and demonstrated protection against hospitalization and death.

https://www.jnj.com/positive-new-data-for-johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-on-activity-against-delta-variant-and-long-lasting-durability-of-response

Sleeper12 · 02-07-2021 12:30pm

keno-daytrader wrote:

In the ENSEMBLE trial, Johnson & Johnsonâ€™s single-dose COVID-19 vaccine was 85 percent effective against severe/critical disease and demonstrated protection against hospitalization and death.

Pat Kenny had an expert on this morning and it might be worth a listen to. Maybe I heard wrong but I'm almost certain he said j&j has around 60 percent against Delta. He also said that it would almost certainly need a booster in the Autumn

Janssen concerns

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