Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 25-06-2021 12:43AM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

No need to put draconian in 'draconian', its the greatest restriction of free travel since WW2. We live in a modern connected world, families exist across borders, and this has been brutal on them and many others.

Can't say I'm fussed what label you want to give it.

It has been particularly brutal, absolutely. I have no family here outside of my other half so I'm only too aware just how brutal.

Stormyteacup wrote: »

How exactly did we do a better job of keeping it out other than we have fewer arrivals from it’s supposed origin?

Fewer arrivals from everywhere would be my guess.

Sobit1964 · 25-06-2021 12:53AM

Graham wrote: »

Can't say I'm fussed what label you want to give it.

It has been particularly brutal, absolutely. I have no family here outside of my other half so I'm only too aware just how brutal.

Fewer arrivals from everywhere would be my guess.

Its been brutal, but its important to not be fussed about me suggesting its draconian?

Ok i withdraw what I said.

Its been brutal - can we agree on that?

The HorsesMouth · 25-06-2021 12:55AM

If they delay indoor hospitality by three weeks then there will be the ridiculous situation where you will be able to fly to Lanzarote, Paris, Rome etc, eat and drink indoors and fly home.

This just doesn't make any sense. It's not as if we are opening up indoor dining no restrictions. It's still six to a table, time limits, masks. The whole thing is infuriating. Those three weeks to restaurants and pubs up and down the country are vital nevermind the holidays people have booked on the proviso indoor hospitality is open!

Graham · 25-06-2021 01:01AM

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

If they delay indoor hospitality by three weeks then there will be the ridiculous situation where you will be able to fly to Lanzarote, Paris, Rome etc, eat and drink indoors and fly home.

If it's delayed by 3 weeks, won't there only be a week where that's possible for vaccinated/tested travellers?

It's getting late, maybe my dates are out.

The HorsesMouth · 25-06-2021 01:05AM

Graham wrote: »

If it's delayed by 3 weeks, won't there only be a week where that's possible for vaccinated/tested travellers?

It's getting late, maybe my dates are out.

Yeah exactly. But that's my point. You can't eat inside in Ireland but technically you could fly to Paris for three nights...eat and drink inside and fly home before we open our indoor hospitality. If your tested/recovered/vaccinated of course.
It would be ridiculous.
But then again we have this situation up North currently.

Graham · 25-06-2021 01:08AM

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

Yeah exactly. But that's my point. You can't eat inside in Ireland but technically you could fly to Paris for three nights...eat and drink inside and fly home before we open our indoor hospitality. If your tested/recovered/vaccinated of course.

You could be right. Unless we reopen as planned, or the next phase is 'adjusted' for vaccinated/tested guests.

CruelSummer · 25-06-2021 07:35AM

Graham wrote: »

If it's delayed by 3 weeks, won't there only be a week where that's possible for vaccinated/tested travellers?

It's getting late, maybe my dates are out.

Are you suggesting Ireland will discriminate against its citizens and not adopt the EU digital Covid cert by suggesting only the vaccinated can fly?

It’s terrible if they postpone indoor dining. How can these businesses take this after so long with their doors shut. I hope there’s marches on the Dáil at this stage. We need an election & see who exactly will take a stand&govern. There is no way it should be closed in July, there’s no one in hospital.
The failure of this Government to govern is beyond reproach. Yet we the taxpayers are supposed to foot this bill for sheer incompetence?
I don’t think anyone can deny who is running the country now and it’s unacceptable. An unelected Covid only focus group.

Allinall · 25-06-2021 07:43AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Are you suggesting Ireland will discriminate against its citizens and not adopt the EU digital Covid cert by suggesting only the vaccinated can fly?

It’s terrible if they postpone indoor dining. How can these businesses take this after so long with their doors shut. I hope there’s marches on the Dáil at this stage. We need an election & see who exactly will take a stand&govern. There is no way it should be closed in July, there’s no one in hospital.
The failure of this Government to govern is beyond reproach. Yet we the taxpayers are supposed to foot this bill for sheer incompetence?
I don’t think anyone can deny who is running the country now and it’s unacceptable. An unelected Covid only focus group.

If there was an election tomorrow, SF would more than likely be the largest party.
They are in favour of stricter restrictions, bordering on a zero covid strategy.

Don't think that will be of comfort to indoor dining venues.

zerosugarbuzz · 25-06-2021 07:55AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Are you suggesting Ireland will discriminate against its citizens and not adopt the EU digital Covid cert by suggesting only the vaccinated can fly?

It’s terrible if they postpone indoor dining. How can these businesses take this after so long with their doors shut. I hope there’s marches on the Dáil at this stage. We need an election & see who exactly will take a stand&govern. There is no way it should be closed in July, there’s no one in hospital.
The failure of this Government to govern is beyond reproach. Yet we the taxpayers are supposed to foot this bill for sheer incompetence?
I don’t think anyone can deny who is running the country now and it’s unacceptable. An unelected Covid only focus group.

Absolutely agree. No hikes in numbers or outbreaks in Dublin after Tony’s hissy fit about the crowds in south William street 4 weeks ago. Absolutely joke what going on in Ireland.

km79 · 25-06-2021 08:02AM

Every paper has it now from “govt sources “ that extension is likely .
And the Irish times also has this
“ However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn”

And then when autumn comes we are heading into back to school territory . There will be “concerns “

And then we are heading into winter and flu season . The “outdoor summer “ will be over. There will be “concerns”.

Many on here predicted exactly what is unfolding .
When do we move on with our lives ? More to the point when will we be allowed move on ?
We will be told to ignore hospital and icu numbers running into July 5th but they will be Bible again in a few months

Sick of it all. Our economy and our citizens mental health are surely factors too. They are two large ticking time bombs and time is running out on both imo

stephenjmcd · 25-06-2021 08:05AM

km79 wrote: »

Every paper has it now from “govt sources “ that extension is likely .
And the Irish times also has this
“ However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn”

And then when autumn comes we are heading into back to school territory . There will be “concerns “

And then we are heading into winter and flu season . The “outdoor summer “ will be over. There will be “concerns”.

Many on here predicted exactly what is unfolding .
When do we move on with our lives ? More to the point when will we be allowed move on ?
We will be told to ignore hospital and icu numbers running into July 5th but they will be Bible again in a few months

Sick of it all. Our economy and our citizens mental health are surely factors too. They are two large ticking time bombs and time is running out on both imo

The Irish times also contradict themselves in the next paragraph

"Sources indicated if a delay was recommended and accepted, and if vaccine momentum was maintained, it was unlikely another extension would be needed."

km79 · 25-06-2021 08:09AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The Irish times also contradict themselves in the next paragraph

"Sources indicated if a delay was recommended and accepted, and if vaccine momentum was maintained, it was unlikely another extension would be needed."

Unlikely ......
We have already been told vaccine momentum will slow down in July.........

25-06-2021 08:16AM

People still defending an extension when there's not a shred of data to support one and it's the usual suspects who've been blindly supportive of the government from day one. If Michael Martin said bend over, they'd throw their back out getting into position so quickly.

Delaying a reopening because of ifs, buts and maybes is not how you lead a country, cases and transmission don't matter when it's not putting anyone in hospital.

The risk of a variant developing that's resistant to vaccines? Yeah that's going to be there indefinitely but what are we supposed to do? Never open fully again because of 'x' variant? What an enormous load of ****e.

prunudo · 25-06-2021 08:17AM

km79 wrote: »

Unlikely ......
We have already been told vaccine momentum will slow down in July.........

When you say 'momentum will slow' is that due supply issues or due to perceived vaccine hesitancy.

stephenjmcd · 25-06-2021 08:25AM

km79 wrote: »

Unlikely ......
We have already been told vaccine momentum will slow down in July.........

It doesn't for the 2-3 weeks that is being spoken about.

Deliveries drop to just over 200k a week during July, but there's plenty to get through

stephenjmcd · 25-06-2021 08:28AM

prunudo wrote: »

When you say 'momentum will slow' is that due supply issues or due to perceived vaccine hesitancy.

Flagged by HSE recently, if we're only using Pfizer & Moderna, deliveries of them drop to just north of 200k during July, the increased Pfizer deliveries of the last few weeks had been brought forward from Q3.

All that could change though if NIAC advice changes, wouldn't be surprised to see J&J or AZ offered to anyone who wants them

pc7 · 25-06-2021 08:32AM

I cannot imagine the worry and stress restaurants and bar owners are currently feeling this morning, absolutely devastating for them if this delay is true.

prunudo · 25-06-2021 08:38AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Flagged by HSE recently, if we're only using Pfizer & Moderna, deliveries of them drop to just north of 200k during July, the increased Pfizer deliveries of the last few weeks had been brought forward from Q3.

All that could change though if NIAC advice changes, wouldn't be surprised to see J&J or AZ offered to anyone who wants them

I presume that smaller delivery of 200k won't effect those of us in our early 40s who will be getting our second doses in 3-4 weeks time?

I never understood why J&J or AZ wasn't offered to anyone who wanted it and accepted the risks.
Makes sense if they finally open it up to everyone.

Klonker · 25-06-2021 08:38AM

pc7 wrote: »

I cannot imagine the worry and stress restaurants and bar owners are currently feeling this morning, absolutely devastating for them if this delay is true.

Some pubs haven't been open since March last year and for only 2 weeks in rest of the country, absolutely crazy stuff. Ignoring the financial aspect for the moment, that can't be good for people mentally. Some have probably never been out of work before their whole adult life.

CruelSummer · 25-06-2021 08:40AM

Allinall wrote: »

If there was an election tomorrow, SF would more than likely be the largest party.
They are in favour of stricter restrictions, bordering on a zero covid strategy.

Don't think that will be of comfort to indoor dining venues.

Let’s hear them all put their cards on the table. Our last election had nothing to do with Covid. We deserve a chance to vote on the type of party and approach that should be adopted going forward - particularly one that stands up to a Civil servant body(NPHET) they themselves created with just one focus. Let’s see Sinn Féin put their money where their mouth is along with the other spineless parties currently in Government and decide then. It’s better than the zero accountability & destroy the country approach.

pc7 · 25-06-2021 08:41AM

Some of my friends have holidays at home organised based on the fact they will be able to eat indoors (you cannot trust the Irish weather) so I can see them cancelling these if you can't eat inside. They had prebooked quite a few spots for meals, the impact will cascade.

stephenjmcd · 25-06-2021 08:41AM

prunudo wrote: »

I presume that smaller delivery of 200k won't effect those of us in our early 40s who will be getting our second doses in 3-4 weeks time?

I never understood why J&J or AZ wasn't offered to anyone who wanted it and accepted the risks.
Makes sense if they finally open it up to everyone.

Would imagine that's already factored into the rollout

Yup absolutely, should have had a waiver system, be it through pharmacy or whatever, if you want J&J just sign the consent forms that you accept the rare risk etc

Lumen · 25-06-2021 08:43AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Flagged by HSE recently, if we're only using Pfizer & Moderna, deliveries of them drop to just north of 200k during July, the increased Pfizer deliveries of the last few weeks had been brought forward from Q3.

All that could change though if NIAC advice changes, wouldn't be surprised to see J&J or AZ offered to anyone who wants them

In a sane world what would have happened:

- Government flags months in advance that indoor restrictions will lift fully and irrevocably at the start of July.
- NPHET warns about growth of delta variant in the country with which we share an open land border.
- Paying heed to the risks arising from variants + planned re-opening of society, the HSE switches their dosing strategy to complete AZ vaccine rollout with dosing intervals closer to the original trials, and gives other vaccines as all new first doses.
- Paying heed to the risks arising from variants + planned re-opening of society, NIAC re-runs their risk calculator and amends their advice to allow allow Janssen for anyone who wants it.
- By the start of July all vulnerable people are fully vaccinated, all delivered Janssen is used, schools are out and everyone who isn't vaccinated can take whatever precautions they deem necessary.

Competence fantasy ends.

Instead we have 90k doses of unused Janssen, loads of oldies and HCWs waiting for their second doses, and continued flapping and dithering coming from health authorities and government.

Hooked · 25-06-2021 08:44AM

pc7 wrote: »

I cannot imagine the worry and stress restaurants and bar owners are currently feeling this morning, absolutely devastating for them if this delay is true.

Agreed! It's UTTER nonsense... How many in ICU? A handful... Christ!

OPEN THE FECKÍN' COUNTRY FFS!!!:mad:

RGS · 25-06-2021 08:44AM

pc7 wrote: »

I cannot imagine the worry and stress restaurants and bar owners are currently feeling this morning, absolutely devastating for them if this delay is true.

Its clear there will be a delay. They should just announce it today and allow these businesses time to try and cancel supplies.

NPHET want it and Martin is too spineless to oppose it.
He is still scarred and scared after Christmas.

Klonker · 25-06-2021 08:47AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Flagged by HSE recently, if we're only using Pfizer & Moderna, deliveries of them drop to just north of 200k during July, the increased Pfizer deliveries of the last few weeks had been brought forward from Q3.

All that could change though if NIAC advice changes, wouldn't be surprised to see J&J or AZ offered to anyone who wants them

I can't see anyone wanting AZ at this stage, needing to wait another month to be fully vaccinated. It's too late in the role out and it's on NIAC because of their overly cautious recommendations. J&J on the other hand I think people would be happy to take I think. I'm early 30s and I'd happily take J&J but not AZ.

If they could identify people who tested positive in last 9 months and offered them one dose of AZ and that this would deem them fully vaccinated that could be a good way to use these doses and quickly increase fully vaccinated figures. We'll all probably be getting boosters next year anyway so I don't think it would be much if an issue giving just the one dose.

25-06-2021 08:47AM

Graham wrote: »

Do I think we should continue to vaccinate people and not reopen on the 5th?

Yes, we should we continue to vaccinate people.

Reopening on the 5th should probably be decided based on the trajectory of the Delta variant as that's the biggest threat currently.

Do I know what the Delta figures are going to look like over the next days/weeks, unsurprisingly I don't.

Lets make something absolutely clear. We never had a plan to reopen in July. The British have delayed their actual reopning reopening. We look like we're about to delay the easing of some of our restrictions.

Keyzer · 25-06-2021 08:56AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

It ends when the Irish people eventually get exercised enough to demand action from their elected representatives - something which they have shown no sign of doing over the last 15 months

The Government have access to cheap credit and a bunch of single-issue, over-cautious zealots to hide behind at the moment and most Irish people are happy living in their little bubble, working from home or drawing the PUP.

The fact that we have become the most indebted nation in Europe has raised barely a murmur. The 10's of billions that have been borrowed to avoid making decisions and to allow Ministers to kick cans down the road will bite every taxpayer in this country over the next few years, maybe even the next few decades. Most people are just too fcuking dumb to see it though.

A perfect storm is brewing. The taxation from our FDI sector which kept us afloat during the last recession is under threat. We have destroyed our indigenous business, tourism and hospitality sectors. Inflation is beginning to rear it's head and we are uniquely vulnerable to any raising of interest rates - anyone who thinks we will be paying back out debt, at the current historically low rates, in a few years time, is an economic moron.

The youth of this country have been totally disenfranchised. Their education, jobs, travel opportunities, sporting and social outlets sacrificed so some social-media hysteria merchants can be placated. Their ability to access affordable housing has been set back years. When the youth of a country are treated like this they invariable turn to radical parties and politicians for solutions - we have no shortage of those in Ireland and if things seem bleak now let's see what the landscape looks like when SF and the rest of the Marxists get their hands on the levers of power in the next election.

Watching this unfold has been horrifying and depressing in equal measure. This is a country I wanted my kids to be able to build a life in. To see it being flushed down the drain over a 'pandemic' that mostly kills people above the age of life expectancy is a joke - just not a very funny one.

A fine post indeed. Agree 100%.

zerosugarbuzz · 25-06-2021 08:57AM

Hooked wrote: »

Agreed! It's UTTER nonsense... How many in ICU? A handful... Christ!

OPEN THE FECKÍN' COUNTRY FFS!!!:mad:

Absolutely, an how many with undiagnosed cancers ect due to no hospital appointments? Many thousands I’d guess. Absolutely shocking stuff.

suicide_circus · 25-06-2021 08:57AM

Are we at a point now where there's a possibility that come mid July a vaccinated person will be allowed get on a flight from Dublin Airport to go on holiday but wont be allowed go into a restaurant for lunch in Dublin city centre?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings