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help for parents/child starting in Catholic school

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,691 ✭✭✭ Tombo2001


    lazygal wrote: »
    Do catholic schools not claim to be inclusive? All the ones around here certainly do. So it's up to the school to follow through on this claim.

    Well they also claim to be catholic schools.

    They dont exclude the kids from Geography class.

    But nonetheless take the point. There should be a recognition that some people dont want to do this, and if they dont there are other options.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭ lazygal


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Well they also claim to be catholic schools.

    They dont exclude the kids from Geography class.

    In religious schools all aspects of the curriculum are presented in a religious context due to the integrated curriculum in primary schools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭ anais


    Run a mile. Not beong funny here but as a teacher in a Catholic school it's actually become worse with the new Curriculum. To the point where the overseer/parish connection person will say to a class 'you should be doing this story at this time, aren't you children?' it's the first time in my 26 year sof twching where morality ie venal sins etc are named. I feel very uncomfortable teaching this. It pervades the day, prayers when they come in, go home, sometimes at lunch time. Obliged to have a' sacred space' in the classroom. All the key calendar events in the church celebrated. We even had the Parish person offer pizzas to kids in my class if they became altar servers(as in, came to my classroom door). Feel free to ask more Q's or send a message. Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    _Brian wrote: »
    I don’t want RE in schools either, a family religion is a thing for home.

    Nevertheless, the current system is what we have and what OP has to deal with. I’m very aware of having kids that are different to “the norm”. I can 100% say if OP sends their kid to a Catholic ethos school and then has them exclude the religious aspect then they will be isolating the child from their classmates, setting them apart as something different. My personal experience is that mostly kids don’t mind, but it is there and from time to time they will just want to be like everyone else in their class rather than that kid who is the only one doing different things.

    All the more reason to schedule religious nonsense to the end of the school day, that way anyone not participating can get the hell out of there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    anais wrote: »
    Run a mile. Not beong funny here but as a teacher in a Catholic school it's actually become worse with the new Curriculum. To the point where the overseer/parish connection person will say to a class 'you should be doing this story at this time, aren't you children?' it's the first time in my 26 year sof twching where morality ie venal sins etc are named. I feel very uncomfortable teaching this. It pervades the day, prayers when they come in, go home, sometimes at lunch time. Obliged to have a' sacred space' in the classroom. All the key calendar events in the church celebrated. We even had the Parish person offer pizzas to kids in my class if they became altar servers(as in, came to my classroom door). Feel free to ask more Q's or send a message. Best of luck.

    Can you explain a bit more about this and what it means in practice?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,639 ✭✭✭ joe40


    I would have thought most catholic schools have plenty of non catholic children. I know when my kids were in primary school there were plenty of non catholic kids in their class.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    eviltwin wrote: »
    All the more reason to schedule religious nonsense to the end of the school day, that way anyone not participating can get the hell out of there.

    Nope.
    It should be separate from education 100%
    Do it at home if it’s that important to your family


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    joe40 wrote: »
    I would have thought most catholic schools have plenty of non catholic children. I know when my kids were in primary school there were plenty of non catholic kids in their class.

    We have had kids on our school for 12yrars and not one non catholic kid in the school


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    _Brian wrote: »
    Nope.
    It should be separate from education 100%
    Do it at home if it’s that important to your family

    I agree but the Catholics won't let that happen. But we keep hearing how welcoming and diverse they are so this would be an easy way to prove it. But they won't because they know that would mean the writing was on the wall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I agree but the Catholics won't let that happen. But we keep hearing how welcoming and diverse they are so this would be an easy way to prove it. But they won't because they know that would mean the writing was on the wall.

    I agree, it would have massive decline in practicing families


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭ appledrop


    Op you definitely need to talk to the school about their policy on Religion.

    Some are grand and while Catholic, don't exclude non religious children and work with parents. Now you can't expect them to leave class as nowhere else to go but they give them other work etc to do and in could be few kids in each class who opt out.

    Our local Catholic school is an absolute religious nut job place.

    Get this one if you don't want your child to learn religion you must collect them everyday from school when religion is taking place and then return them to school.

    I swear to god I'm not making this up.

    Yea that would work well with with two parents working.

    They obviously are forcing all kids to do religion no matter what.

    Needless to say our child is going to Educate Together school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭ anais


    eviltwin wrote:
    Can you explain a bit more about this and what it means in practice?

    A venial sin would be something considered minor eg telling lies. A 'mortal sin' is more of a 'grave matter' and is done with knowledge, even deliberate thought .
    The whole idea that 9 year olds should be introduced to such archaic language and abstract ideas is a challenge. Right from wrong, of course and consequence of choice. The RE programme in the swnuor end of the school is very theological, has good points about caring for others/environment etc but most is difficult for the kiddos to umderstand. The books are online, still free access for the most part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭ lazygal


    From various online parents groups I'm in the religious stuff seems far more full on than when I was in school. Grow In Love in particular is terribly problematic, not to mention the new Flourish programme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    anais wrote: »
    A venial sin would be something considered minor eg telling lies. A 'mortal sin' is more of a 'grave matter' and is done with knowledge, even deliberate thought .
    The whole idea that 9 year olds should be introduced to such archaic language and abstract ideas is a challenge. Right from wrong, of course and consequence of choice. The RE programme in the swnuor end of the school is very theological, has good points about caring for others/environment etc but most is difficult for the kiddos to umderstand. The books are online, still free access for the most part.

    Thanks for replying. I’d have a huge issue with teaching kids the concept of sin. It’s a horrible psychological burden to place on a child.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Thanks for replying. I’d have a huge issue with teaching kids the concept of sin. It’s a horrible psychological burden to place on a child.

    I just explained to the kids that it’s a different way of saying it’s morally unacceptable. I explained that while people say the bible contains parables, the truth is the whole thing is a parable. My explanation is that religion is just a method to deliver moral guidance.

    I wasn’t getting into the whole ridiculousness around it, easier to explain to a kid that we want people to be good and make sound moral decisions for society amd religion was just a way thought you to do this.

    When they came to me with conversations about how unbelievable the narrative was I agreed and doubled back on the parable thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,532 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    _Brian wrote: »
    My explanation is that religion is just a method to deliver moral guidance.

    A very very poor one though.

    How can a bishop claim that he didn't know that covering up child abuse was wrong?

    Trans rights are human rights. 🦄 🌈 💕



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,532 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    anais wrote: »
    A venial sin would be something considered minor eg telling lies. A 'mortal sin' is more of a 'grave matter' and is done with knowledge, even deliberate thought .
    The whole idea that 9 year olds should be introduced to such archaic language and abstract ideas is a challenge. Right from wrong, of course and consequence of choice. The RE programme in the swnuor end of the school is very theological, has good points about caring for others/environment etc but most is difficult for the kiddos to umderstand. The books are online, still free access for the most part.

    It really is amazing that teachers as a collective just go along with this nonsense. The unions have never said boo to the church and never will.

    Trans rights are human rights. 🦄 🌈 💕



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    A very very poor one though.

    How can a bishop claim that he didn't know that covering up child abuse was wrong?

    You’d need to ask the bishop that one. I’m so glad your pedestal allows you to look down and pass judgment on what other parents are doing, not unlike the failings of the church actually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,862 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    The massive mistake that was made was as part of the settlement with the church the lands of all schools should have been signed over to the state.

    That’s the hold the church retain on schools, mostly the sites are owned by the church and the buildings provided by the state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,532 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    _Brian wrote: »
    You’d need to ask the bishop that one. I’m so glad your pedestal allows you to look down and pass judgment on what other parents are doing, not unlike the failings of the church actually.

    What "judgment" am I passing, exactly? and why attack me personally rather than my posts?

    Trans rights are human rights. 🦄 🌈 💕



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,532 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    _Brian wrote: »
    The massive mistake that was made was as part of the settlement with the church the lands of all schools should have been signed over to the state.

    That’s the hold the church retain on schools, mostly the sites are owned by the church and the buildings provided by the state.

    Fantasy.

    Michael Woods in effect wrote a blank cheque on behalf of the taxpayer and gave it to the church. They played him for a complete fool and were never going to do what you suggest.

    Trans rights are human rights. 🦄 🌈 💕



  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ tjc28


    When my son started 2 years ago in a Catholic national school (he's coming to the end of senior infants) we had a chat with the teacher the first week and explained we're both atheists and our son wasn't baptised and it wasn't a problem at all. The teacher said the 1st two years would not be focused on God or Christian teachings but more on Family, Love etc. She gave us the option of him sitting it out and he could draw or read but we decided that the curriculum wasn't going to brainwash him so we left him involved. Now we're coming into first class we'll take up the option of him sitting it out. In his class there's kids of different religions and none so despite it being a Catholic school they understand it's not for everyone.
    In some ways Covid has been good for this as with the difficulties of teaching remotely and more parental teaching etc the teacher never really did religion as it was far more important to focus on the important subjects.
    I'd say speak to the teacher first chance you get. My impression is yes the schools are Catholic but it's not like it was in years ago. The religion aspect is in someways just background. Box ticking if you like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭ Deeec


    Firsty I would like to start off by saying I respect your views on religion and well done for sticking to your principles. This post I hope offers a view from a parent who is happy for their kids to be raised in the catholic faith.

    My kids attend a catholic primary school - religion in the school is more about giving kids a set of rules to live a good life by. Its about being a kind and good person. This was the same as when I went to school also and also in the secondary convent school I attended ( over 20 years ago). None of the churchs views on sex, same sex relationships, sin etc were taught to us as kids. Yes they say prayers, yes they go to mass on ash wednesday. Parents can though opt their kids out of religious activities.

    In my 6 year olds class there is a little girl whose parents dont want her to participate in religious activities. The school supports this for the childs parents and nobody including school management have a problem with this. However the only one that seems to have the problem is the childs mother - she contacted a parent of each child in the class to ask if their child is getting their first communion ( communion is 2 years away BTW) - she seemed shocked to discover that every other child is going to receive their first holy communion. She seems really bothered by this that her child is the only child thats not participating and goes on about this constantly to the point that other parents now run a mile from her at collection time. The fact is that everyone supports her decision but by behaving the way she does ( about everybody elses beliefs )she is alienating both herself and her child. I cant see why she is shocked by this given that it is a catholic school - she cant expect everyone else to share her beliefs. Now this parent also doesnt celebrate christmas and easter - santa claus doesnt even visit their house ( again she has issues with the schools christmas celebrations but thats another story). Again everyone respects her beliefs on this.

    I suppose what I am saying is are you prepared that you will be in the minority in a catholic school. Perhaps you may be better at this stage looking for a different school if your beliefs are very stong. Also I would suggest meeting with the school principle to discuss the issues - you could be pleasantly surprised how accomodating they will be of your views. Remember that education will be the schools main focus not religion. I hope all works out for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭ appledrop


    Deeec you have obviously not read the new Flourish programme because that clearly outlines the Catholic Churches views on same sex marriage and relationships etc.

    Every single lesson ends with a little prayer and an Amen. Most of the time you also thank God for making you etc.

    And no this is not the religioos education lesson in school which I might be able to understand but the actual Relationship and Sex Education lessons that will be thought in primary schools.

    I suggest you inform yourself of the actually curriculum that is being taught in Catholic primary schools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭ Deeec


    appledrop wrote: »
    Deeec you have obviously not read the new Flourish programme because that clearly outlines the Catholic Churches views on same sex marriage and relationships etc.

    Every single lesson ends with a little prayer and an Amen. Most of the time you also thank God for making you etc.

    And no this is not the religioos education lesson in school which I might be able to understand but the actual Relationship and Sex Education lessons that will be thought in primary schools.

    I suggest you inform yourself of the actually curriculum that is being taught in Catholic primary schools.

    Apple drop I have 2 children currently attending primary school. They have not been thought anything bad or negative about sex or same sex relationships. I myself was never taught anything negative either. It may be in the programme but is it actually taught in practice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭ appledrop


    Deeec wrote: »
    Apple drop I have 2 children currently attending primary school. They have not been thought anything bad or negative about sex or same sex relationships. I myself was never taught anything negative either. It may be in the programme but is it actually taught in practice?

    It was just released in April of this year.i suggest you check with your school if they plan to implement this new programme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,375 ✭✭✭ appledrop




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭ Deeec


    appledrop wrote: »

    Appledrop as regards religion I find teachers are very loose on what is meant to be taught. It may be written in the programme - I expect alot of teachers wont actually teach it though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,508 ✭✭✭✭ eviltwin


    Deeec wrote: »
    Apple drop I have 2 children currently attending primary school. They have not been thought anything bad or negative about sex or same sex relationships. I myself was never taught anything negative either. It may be in the programme but is it actually taught in practice?

    It was in my daughters school and as someone who happens to be LGBT herself it caused her a lot of unnecessary hurt. I’m still angry about it tbh. We were able to help her with that, imagine you have parents who share those views.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,229 ✭✭✭✭ rainbowtrout


    _Brian wrote: »
    No matter what, all the kids classmates will be working towards and engaging in the sacraments, this will significantly set OPs kid apart from the others. There’s no avoiding that. Amd for a small kid that wil make them feel different and in a significant minority.

    I’m not saying that is right or wrong, just as a parent I can’t see how OP will do this without the kid being isolated at times during school.

    So the answer is just to have them go along with Catholic education? It's not a good enough reason really.


    There was a girl in my class in the mid 80s who was raised as atheist (quite radical looking back), and she wasn't excluded by the kids in the class. We understood that she had 'no religion'. Kids don't make a big deal of stuff like that, their parents and teachers do. My school used to do communion photos so there was a day maybe a week after the communion that we wore our dresses to school and got a class photo and individual photo and she was told she could put on a nice dress of her own, get her photo taken and she is in the class photo. Obvioulsy she could have opted out of that. None of the kids in the class excluded her. We understood that she didn't go to mass etc.


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