What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

ddarcy · 18-06-2021 03:18PM

[url] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/astrazeneca-says-eu-defeated-in-legal-bid-over-vaccine-supplies-2021-06-18?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo
[/url]

Both are claiming victory.

AstraZeneca AZN, -0.93% AZN, 0.08%, the British-Swedish pharmaceutical group and developer of the world's most used COVID-19 vaccine, had a positive outcome in a court case brought by the European Union over its contract to deliver vaccine to the bloc. The European Commission, the EU's executive body, had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021. AstraZeneca said the judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

Reading this is say AZ won.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 03:22PM

loughside wrote: »

EU Loses Case Against AstraZeneca

AstraZeneca welcomes Court ruling on supply of its COVID-19 vaccine to EU:

AstraZeneca to-day welcomed the ruling by the Court of First Instance in Brussels. The European Commission had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021 The edge ordered delivery of 802 million closes by 27 September 2021 To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80 2 million doses by the end of June 2021 All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

A sort of a win win but nobody altogether satisfied. As a supplier you really wouldn't recommend them to your worst enemy. TBH the sooner we're shot of them the better.

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 03:23PM

AZ don't seem too worried about the fines, should meet that amount of doses easily.

The UK-based pharmaceutical fell well short of fulfilling its contract to supply the EU in the first quarter, delivering only 30 million of the 120 million promised. But the court, while finding in favour of the European Commission’s demand for interim measures, ordered only that the company deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September. If the firm fails to do so it would pay a fine of €10 per dose not delivered.

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-eu-court-dose-delivery-5470902-Jun2021/

The delivery schedule will be:
15 million doses by 26 July, 20 million by 23 August, 15 million by 27 September.

ddarcy · 18-06-2021 03:24PM

Lyle wrote: »

This is bollocks.

From the EMA:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1404072431766151172

From Cavaleri himself:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/astrazeneca-shots-should-be-halted-over-60s-too-ema-official-2021-06-13/

Well the journalists are standing over it. Not retracting it, etc. I’ve even given it a few days and no change on their part. There is the likelihood that it came from frustration. Cavaleri’s statement reads like he was forced to correct himself. We see it all the time when footballers mess up, etc. So I’ll still say he said it, but again it might have been out of frustration and logistics.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 03:25PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

AZ don't seem too worried about the fines, should meet that amount of doses easily.

The UK-based pharmaceutical fell well short of fulfilling its contract to supply the EU in the first quarter, delivering only 30 million of the 120 million promised. But the court, while finding in favour of the European Commission’s demand for interim measures, ordered only that the company deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September. If the firm fails to do so it would pay a fine of €10 per dose not delivered.

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-eu-court-dose-delivery-5470902-Jun2021/

Why would they? There's a whole world out there waiting for their vaccine. It's paltry but symbolic of an EU win. It would also be the first time they've actually met a target!

loughside · 18-06-2021 03:31PM

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

In other words stand in the queue like everybody else and don`t act the Billy Bigbolloks again.

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 03:37PM

loughside wrote: »

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

It's pretty much what those quoted in the media who were familiar with contract law and UK v Belgian contract law said would happen.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 03:38PM

loughside wrote: »

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

In other words stand in the queue like everybody else and don`t act the Billy Bigbolloks again.

The other side of this is an untrustworthy company promising what they couldn't deliver and persistently not owning up to that fact. The HSE have absolutely no trust in them beyond repeating what the company claims about supply lines.

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 03:46PM

is_that_so wrote: »

The other side of this is an untrustworthy company promising what they couldn't deliver and persistently not owning up to that fact. The HSE have absolutely no trust in them beyond repeating what the company claims about supply lines.

There's lots of companies out there who over-promise, whether it's vaccines, or ventilators, or masks, or syringes or laptops or whatever.
Sure AZ have messed the EU about, over-promising either through genuine over-optimism or trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
But the EU needs to have competence in dealing with such companies and in negotiating contracts that will stand up in court.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 03:53PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

There's lots of companies out there who over-promise, whether it's vaccines, or ventilators, or masks, or syringes or laptops or whatever.
Sure AZ have messed the EU about, over-promising either through genuine over-optimism or trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
But the EU needs to have competence in dealing with such companies and in negotiating contracts that will stand up in court.

Mostly BS from the shifty CEO of a company who had never made vaccines before. It should never have needed to get to court, none of the other suppliers ended up there and they were upfront with issues they were having. They have all delivered as per their contracts. It's unlikely we'll have a scenario like this again and there are other proven and more reliable solutions. Will be happy when we see the back of them.

deeperlearning · 18-06-2021 03:54PM

astrofool wrote: »

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

Vaccine effectiveness measures how well a vaccine works at preventing symptomatic disease when given to people in the real work.
Vaccine efficacy is the degree to which a vaccine prevents symptomatic disease under ideal and controlled circumstances in clinical trials.

Preventing hospitalisation is a another matter and, indeed, also an important measure.

According to the study of hospital admissions by Public Health England, the AstraZeneca vaccine is 71 per cent effective at preventing hospital admission after just one dose rising to 92 per cent after two doses.

In contrast, according to PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is 94 per cent effective at preventing hospital admission after one dose rising to 96 per cent after two doses.

Note that just one dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (94%) is more effective at preventing hospital admission than two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine (92%).

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccines-highly-effective-in-stopping-delta-variant-hospitalisations-1.4593267

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 03:57PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Mostly BS from the shifty CEO of a company who had never made vaccines before. It's unlikely we'll have a scenario like this again and there are other proven and more reliable solutions. Will be happy when we see the back of them.

Until the next crisis and the EU needs something in a hurry or something in short supply.

And no other company has a shifty CEO?
This speaks to the competence of the EU in contract negotiations if they thought what they had was a contract that gave them priority over other parties.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 04:05PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Until the next crisis and the EU needs something in a hurry or something in short supply.

And no other company has a shifty CEO?
This speaks to the competence of the EU in contract negotiations if they thought what they had was a contract that gave them priority over other parties.

Waving a contract about does not excuse AZ at all. It speaks to a very poor supplier and they are the only ones to end up in court. AZ have been poor all the way through this, right from the clinical trial and it is just as well there were other far more competent options. Without Pfizer and Moderna we'd still be doing the over 70s!

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 04:08PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Waving a contract about does not excuse AZ at all. It speaks to a very poor supplier and they are the only ones to end up in court. AZ have been poor all the way through this, right from the clinical trial and it is just as well there were other far more competent options. Without Pfizer and Moderna we'd still be doing the over 70s!

I'm not talking just about vaccines here.
I'm talking about the next contract.
I think you're entirely missing the point.
It's not about excusing AZ it's that the EU needs to be better at 'defending' itself against companies like that, because it waived a contract and made claims for the contract that contract law experts laughed at.

RobertKK · 18-06-2021 04:14PM

I think it was a win for the EU in the court case.

Set deadlines for deliveries or €10 per dose fine.

UK sites have to be used for best efforts part of contract.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 04:16PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not talking just about vaccines here.
I'm talking about the next contract.
I think you're entirely missing the point.

Why wasn't this an issue with any other company who signed contracts in good faith? We are now nearly seven months on from when this started and still no evidence of their best effort.

Vaccines are the point, they didn't or can't deliver. If you consider it praiseworthy that a so-called vaccine company resorted to legal cover for their ineptitude you don't get what annoyed the EU. They just want their/our vaccines.

odyssey06 · 18-06-2021 04:21PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Well we are now nearly seven months on from when this started and still no evidence of their best effort.

Vaccines are the point, they didn't deliver. If you consider it praiseworthy that a so-called vaccine company resorted to legal cover for their ineptitude you don't get what annoyed the EU. They just want their/our vaccines.

Contracts are the point.
You'll have to highlight where I said it was praiseworthy, because it's nowhere in any of the posts I have made.

It's not about 'praiseworthy' or being 'annoyed', which is an emotional response.
I don't have to 'get' what annoyed the EU because it's neither here nor there to getting the vaccines.
It doesn't matter how annoyed the EU get. It matters what is written in the contracts and what will stand up in court.
Anything else is just background noise and twitter feed.

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 04:23PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Contracts are the point.
You'll have to highlight where I said it was praiseworthy, because it's nowhere in any of the posts I have made.

It's not about 'praiseworthy' or being 'annoyed', which is an emotional response.
I don't have to 'get' what annoyed the EU because it's neither here nor there to getting the vaccines.

Well, you are suggesting that the contract trumps all other behaviour in this. Contracts supposedly lead to service, which has been chronically poor. And why was any of this not an issue with any of the other companies?

RobertKK · 18-06-2021 04:24PM

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1405903593010610176?s=20

AZ lost.

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2021 04:36PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I think it was a win for the EU in the court case.

Set deadlines for deliveries or €10 per dose fine.

UK sites have to be used for best efforts part of contract.

Not only that it's an interim funding. It point that the court has issues with the way AZ behaved. It is giving relief to the plaintiff before full case is heard. In any legal case this would be considered bad news to the defendant..

It has issued a finding require AZ to deliver 50 million doses or face a fine of 10 euro/ dose not delivered. It means AZ will have to deliver these doses. The longer term outlook is that AZ will have to compensate the EU for earlier contract failings

Given that the first quarter failing was 90 million even a judgement of 3-4 euro/ dose judgement would be 300-350 million compensation

Marcusm · 18-06-2021 04:41PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not only that it's an interim funding. It point that the court has issues with the way AZ behaved. It is giving relief to the plaintiff before full case is heard. In any legal case this would be considered bad news to the defendant..

It has issued a finding require AZ to deliver 50 million doses or face a fine of 10 euro/ dose not delivered. It means AZ will have to deliver these doses. The longer term outlook is that AZ will have to compensate the EU for earlier contract failings

Given that the first quarter failing was 90 million even a judgement of 3-4 euro/ dose judgement would be 300-350 million compensation

The 50m wa sin addition to the 30m already delivered when they made the claim. The newspapers reports that 70.2m have been delivered to date meaning that AZ has only to deliver 9.8m by September and no fine will arise. By all accounts, this is expected to be satisfied by early/mid July. It reflects badly on all the parties but particularly the EU. They should have engaged better.

brickster69 · 18-06-2021 05:24PM

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

Frank Bullitt · 18-06-2021 05:28PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

I am sure Ursela will really be hurt by that...

brickster69 · 18-06-2021 05:41PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I am sure Ursela will really be hurt by that...

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

fly_agaric · 18-06-2021 06:14PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

Boris is Boss I'm a Boris Tank Top. Bots won't be responded to. Professional Horseman. Gay and Proud. Border Collie lover and have 3 Elsie, Max and Goose.

Oh my!

is_that_so · 18-06-2021 07:04PM

brickster69 wrote: »

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

Doubtful, the science failed here. At 47% it may have a hard time getting approval.

18-06-2021 07:40PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

The German vaccine? I presume they mean the one with the best efficacy and most secure supply chains?

Good to see you back shilling for the brexiteer lobby brickster. Even when they display their rank ignorance for all to see

deeperlearning · 18-06-2021 10:19PM

brickster69 wrote: »

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

Nasty, jingoistic, misogynistic, moronic.

So do **** off, brickster69, you utter gob****e!

18-06-2021 11:05PM

Laughing at a vaccine's lack of effectiveness because it's German is really stooping low.

loughside · 18-06-2021 11:14PM

Fond O`Lying is a vindictive hostile waste of space. Offloaded from German politics where she was several times a complete and utterly failure hated by many within her own party.
Appointed in the tawdry agreement between Macron & Merckel and loaded on to the Brussels gravy train for failed European politicians where she is completely out of her depth. At least Juncker was an amiable old sod, she is just vile. Macron, Merkel & VDL have tried their hardest to destroy benevolent AstraZeneca out of spite and envy.

All credit to AstraZeneca for facing them out.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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