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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #4532
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cheezums wrote: »
    and if you were more informed you would know that antigen tests mostly catch people with symptoms and at the height of their infection. i.e. a small fraction of covid positive people. i.e. completely useless for controlling a virus.

    if you want to travel, wait until you get a vaccine.
    And if you read more of this thread you would know that Medical Professionals outside Ireland have adopted a pragmatic and effective response to catch those who are shedding virus not those who are infected. I have referred to this multiple times.


  • #4533
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    What restrictions have Western Eutope on the UK do you know ?
    If you want to start you can look for Risikogebiet on rki.de. You'll find parts of Ireland on the list.


  • #4534
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Yeah I knew that was what it was about .
    It won't help anyone as I said if we let much more of that variant in while we are not all fully vaxxed and end up restricted longer . That will prolong their misery more in the travel industry .
    Been here before with people saying open all up when opening slowly.
    By August the aviation and nany more will pretty much be getting back to normal here .

    By the way Mina has an agenda ...

    Amazing how countries like Germany that accept antigen tests for travel, have no fine in place for travel and no quarentine period once arrive in the country, that their case numbers are decreasing more rapidly than ours :confused:
    antigen testing is a tool we should be using slot more widespread. I don't think just because Mina is involved with an antigen test we should ignore what he has to say. I don't think he's gonna get rich from the little market that is Ireland, that's even if the brand he's involved in is used. I'd put more weight in his expertise than that of NPHET anyway.


  • #4535
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,379 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Klonker wrote: »
    You purposefully ignored the 'self administered' part of my comment on your first paragraph then threw it in in a different context in your second paragraph to make it look like you didn't ignore. Obviously don't have a good response if that's what you're resorting too. Nobody had looked for self admin tests for travel and you know this.

    Hang on, hang on. I'm not trying to dodge something here. I'm posting in good faith, believe or not.

    "You know this" - Well, no I don't know this. And that's the truth, there's a lot of of Covid related developments and news that I have simply checked out of over the last few weeks. Mentally, I reached my limit and decided not to follow every last twist and turn hour by hour, so, I'm sure you're much more informed than I am currently in relation to all this.

    Let me rephrase what I'm saying. Okay, let's say that indeed nobody is asking for self administered tests in relation to travel. Fine, I accept that, if that is the case.

    But the question I really ask is if the tests aren't to be self administered how feasible and how practical is it to use them for travel, en masse? If thousands upon thousands - and surely in this context these are the type of numbers we're talking about - of people want to use antigen testing to travel and if we're saying they can't be self administered then I wonder in real terms what is their actual practicality? Surely there's a huge demand on resources and manpower still involved with the testing.


  • #4536
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Arghus wrote: »
    Hang on, hang on. I'm not trying to dodge something here. I'm posting in good faith, believe or not.

    "You know this" - Well, no I don't know this. And that's the truth, there's a lot of of Covid related developments and news that I have simply checked out of over the last few weeks. Mentally, I reached my limit and decided not to follow every last twist and turn hour by hour, so, I'm sure you're much more informed than I am currently in relation to all this.

    Let me rephrase what I'm saying. Okay, let's say that indeed nobody is asking for self administered tests in relation to travel. Fine, I accept that, if that is the case.

    But the question I really ask is if the tests aren't to be self administered how feasible and how practical is it to use them for travel, en masse? If thousands upon thousands - and surely in this context these are the type of numbers we're talking about - of people want to use antigen testing to travel and if we're saying they can't be self administered then I wonder in real terms what is their actual practicality? Surely there's a huge demand on resources and manpower still involved with the testing.
    How it works in Germany is that there is blanket coverage of testing centres. That is the starting point. I can't find anywhere near my destination in Ireland that will carry out an antigen test and issue a cert which means for an antigen test I'd have to pay 49 euro at Dublin Airport.
    Testing is free in Germany using approved antigen tests and results are received in 15 minutes. If you want to travel then you pay 10 euro for a certificate to prove you have tested negative. It is working extremely well in Germany but NPHET wouldn't want anyone to hear about how the virus is being successfully fought in Germany.


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  • #4537
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,035 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Klonker wrote: »
    Very poor showing from NPHET today at that hearing, now sure what order to go in;
    Keep asking questions like that and you'll never get a job in Irish politics. Or the Irish media, for that matter.
    cheezums wrote: »
    the pandemic is over lads

    Thats great news! Let Tony know will you, he thinks we are still in one.


  • #4538
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,234 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Klonker wrote: »
    You are wrong to think antigen tests won't help the aviation industry. Why is aviation here repeatedly calling for them to be excepted here if the wouldn't help? Are they just doing it for the craic? Whatll help save the aviation sector here is get rid of our stupid travel restrictions now and come in line with our EU counterparties on travel rules and testing.

    There can be no spontaneity in travel/aviation when PCR is required. If you need to travel immediately you can’t because first you have to go get a PCR test and wait for the results. This is particularly an issue for people in rural areas.
    Antigen allows you to take a test at an airport lab just before checkin which is why aviation wants it so much.

    NPHET have kicked the can down the road so long that it will become a moot point as everyone will soon be able to travel after they are vaccinated in a more spontaneous manner again.


  • #4539
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,785 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Will we ever get the answer of why Ireland had/is one of the most restricted countries in the world in this pandemic ?

    Is it cause of our culture which a big part of it is drinking and been social people ?

    Is it cause of our health system, one that the general has no control over ?

    Is it cause of the spineless leadership in the government who are frightened to make a decision and are hiding behind 'Health officials' ?

    beyond frustration at this point


  • #4540
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Arghus wrote: »
    Hang on, hang on. I'm not trying to dodge something here. I'm posting in good faith, believe or not.

    "You know this" - Well, no I don't know this. And that's the truth, there's a lot of of Covid related developments and news that I have simply checked out of over the last few weeks. Mentally, I reached my limit and decided not to follow every last twist and turn hour by hour, so, I'm sure you're much more informed than I am currently in relation to all this.

    Let me rephrase what I'm saying. Okay, let's say that indeed nobody is asking for self administered tests in relation to travel. Fine, I accept that, if that is the case.

    But the question I really ask is if the tests aren't to be self administered how feasible and how practical is it to use them for travel, en masse? If thousands upon thousands - and surely in this context these are the type of numbers we're talking about - of people want to use antigen testing to travel and if we're saying they can't be self administered then I wonder in real terms what is their actual practicality? Surely there's a huge demand on resources and manpower still involved with the testing.

    But somehow we'll have the manpower for the slower, more technical PCR tests for travel but not the antigen tests? And if we did allow antigen tests for travel, we'd actually be getting the test done in another country anyway, who are more than likely already using them fur a number of other destinations so should have no problem for capacity.


  • #4541
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,379 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Klonker wrote: »
    But somehow we'll have the manpower for the slower, more technical PCR tests for travel but not the antigen tests? And if we did allow antigen tests for travel, we'd actually be getting the test done in another country anyway, who are more than likely already using them fur a number of other destinations so should have no problem for capacity.

    We do have the manpower for the slower more technical PCR. You'll have no problem getting a PCR test. That's why they're saying to use that instead.


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  • #4542
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    https://independent.bbvms.com/mediaclip/4259642/pthumbnail/928/522.jpg
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Without having watched it I’d imagine they were two meters apart.

    Nope, more like a metre if even that. But one rule for the rule makers and another for us :)


  • #4543
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Arghus wrote: »
    We do have the manpower for the slower more technical PCR. You'll have no problem getting a PCR test. That's why they're saying to use that instead.

    There is no problem with capacity if testing. For one thing I just explained to you if PCR is required for entry to Ireland you won't be getting this test here, you'll be getting it abroad. Even if it was here, as far as we know HSE tests aren't accepted anyway which I'm assuming the manpower you mention above so your point is moot. Also, if demand is there, private companies will meet the supply. There's lot of companies carrying out private antigen and PCR tests here at the moment.


  • #4544
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    normanoffside wrote: »
    There can be no spontaneity in travel/aviation when PCR is required. If you need to travel immediately you can’t because first you have to go get a PCR test and wait for the results. This is particularly an issue for people in rural areas.
    Antigen allows you to take a test at an airport lab just before checkin which is why aviation wants it so much.

    NPHET have kicked the can down the road so long that it will become a moot point as everyone will soon be able to travel after they are vaccinated in a more spontaneous manner again.

    Yep, took them about 5 months publish the results of this report. By the time they start another it'll be and then publish the report it'll be 2022.


  • #4545
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,379 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Klonker wrote: »
    There is no problem with capacity if testing. For one thing I just explained to you if PCR is required for entry to Ireland you won't be getting this test here, you'll be getting it abroad. Even if it was here, as far as we know HSE tests aren't accepted anyway which I'm assuming the manpower you mention above so your point is moot.Also, if demand is there, private companies will meet the supply. There's lot of companies carrying out private antigen and PCR tests here at the moment.

    Just that one sentence there. Could you clarify that?


  • #4546
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Klonker wrote: »
    But somehow we'll have the manpower for the slower, more technical PCR tests for travel but not the antigen tests? And if we did allow antigen tests for travel, we'd actually be getting the test done in another country anyway, who are more than likely already using them fur a number of other destinations so should have no problem for capacity.

    What value does the antigen test add? Turn around time for pre travel PCR tests are typically 24 hours from pharmacies and private test companies. I'm hardly going to be travelling at less than a day's notice. I'd prefer to get a test done a day or two before a flight rather than turn up at the airport on the day and hope the queue for testing isn't too long and miss my flight

    An antigen test doesn't do away with the requirement for self isolation / quarantine or for the requirement for PCR tests on day 5 (and day 10 if not vaccinated) after arrival in Ireland.

    On its own antigen testing is insufficient, with the other measures ( self isolation, quarantine, post arrival testing) antigen testing doesn't add much value


  • #4547
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    What value does the antigen test add? Turn around time for pre travel PCR tests are typically 24 hours from pharmacies and private test companies. I'm hardly going to be travelling at less than a day's notice. I'd prefer to get a test done a day or two before a flight rather than turn up at the airport on the day and hope the queue for testing isn't too long and miss my flight

    An antigen test doesn't do away with the requirement for self isolation / quarantine or for the requirement for PCR tests on day 5 (and day 10 if not vaccinated) after arrival in Ireland.

    On its own antigen testing is insufficient, with the other measures ( self isolation, quarantine, post arrival testing) antigen testing doesn't add much value

    Antigen tests could also be used for festivals, matches and other events.
    I really hope they’re used in schools from next Autumn as another tool to help pick up and stop Covid cases spreading in school settings next year.


  • #4548
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,305 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Arghus wrote: »
    Just that one sentence there. Could you clarify that?

    I think he means HSE tests aren't accepted for holiday travel purposes. Didn't they say a few weeks ago that the HSE won't be paying for tests so people can go on trips?


  • #4549
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,234 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Arghus wrote: »
    Just that one sentence there. Could you clarify that?

    HSE don’t provide a certificate just a text. That text could be easily replicated or copied so showing a text proves nothing really.

    For entry to another country you need a certificate with name as per passport, Passport number, date of birth and the time in which the sample was taken. This is whether it’s a PCR or antigen test. Only private companies provide that service at present.


  • #4550
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Antigen tests could also be used for festivals, matches and other events.
    I really hope they’re used in schools from next Autumn as another tool to help pick up and stop Covid cases spreading in school settings next year.

    I really hope there is minimal need for any testing next Autumn given the level of vaccinations we will be at


  • #4551
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    normanoffside wrote: »
    HSE don’t provide a certificate just a text. That text could be easily replicated or copied so showing a text proves nothing really.

    For entry to another country you need a certificate with name as per passport, Passport number, date of birth and the time in which the sample was taken. This is whether it’s a PCR or antigen test. Only private companies provide that service at present.

    Private companies provide the required testing. Where is the problem?


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  • #4552
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Polar101 wrote: »
    What's the fascination with antigen testing all about?
    People who want to be able to go on foreign holidays.


  • #4553
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,035 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    seamus wrote: »
    People who want to be able to go on foreign holidays.

    Or to operate their business. Or do people not realise how much back and forth there is between Irish businesses and customers in the UK?

    We personally have lost UK contracts because of the current Irish travel restrictions, anything at all that delays travel has an adverse effect, and anything that can be done to mitigate the problem should be done as a priority.

    But then who gives a **** about businesses and the economy, right? Certainly not NPHET's Ireland, thats for damn sure.


  • #4554
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Private PCR testing is available and turns around inside 24 hours. If at this stage someone's business still hinges on being able to put a person on a plane with less than 24 hours notice, then they've disastrously failed to adapt to the prevailing conditions.

    It's not NPHET's fault that they're bad at business.


  • #4555
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Arghus wrote: »
    Just that one sentence there. Could you clarify that?

    Private tests are currently needed for travel, HSE PCR results are not accepted for travel. I assume this is the testing capacity you were referring to. As we were talking about testing for travel that HSE capacity is not helpful. Now this could change but I'd highly doubt it and it has never been hinted at that it will be acceptable.


  • #4556
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    What value does the antigen test add? Turn around time for pre travel PCR tests are typically 24 hours from pharmacies and private test companies. I'm hardly going to be travelling at less than a day's notice. I'd prefer to get a test done a day or two before a flight rather than turn up at the airport on the day and hope the queue for testing isn't too long and miss my flight

    An antigen test doesn't do away with the requirement for self isolation / quarantine or for the requirement for PCR tests on day 5 (and day 10 if not vaccinated) after arrival in Ireland.

    On its own antigen testing is insufficient, with the other measures ( self isolation, quarantine, post arrival testing) antigen testing doesn't add much value

    Self isolation, quarentine and post arrival testing will be gone from 19th July anyway in the majority of circumstances anyway so those you mentioned that are better will then be gone.

    A lot of people don't live close by to a private testing centre. I'd much rather make one journey on the day, get tested a few hours before my flight, relax and get a coffee while I wait for my result and then make my way towards my plane if I pass. Maybe you'd rather make two trips and pay extra needlessly but I certainly wouldn't.


  • #4557
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,035 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    seamus wrote: »
    Private PCR testing is available and turns around inside 24 hours. If at this stage someone's business still hinges on being able to put a person on a plane with less than 24 hours notice, then they've disastrously failed to adapt to the prevailing conditions.

    It's not NPHET's fault that they're bad at business.

    Simplistic and naïve in the extreme, yet another example of people who aren't actually effected by the measures smugly deciding to lecture about it anyway.

    For example, why do you assume that it is the Irish company who needs to travel and not the customer? The customer who decides they don't need the hassle and will look elsewhere instead? How is that a reflection on the Irish business?


  • #4558
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Klonker wrote: »

    A lot of people don't live close by to a private testing centre.

    That sounds like we are trying to come up with unlikely scenarios. These people could always get a rapid test at the airport, couldn't they?


  • #4559
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    Private PCR testing is available and turns around inside 24 hours. If at this stage someone's business still hinges on being able to put a person on a plane with less than 24 hours notice, then they've disastrously failed to adapt to the prevailing conditions.

    It's not NPHET's fault that they're bad at business.
    You are 100% correct there. A pragmatic company that finds themselves in that situation would issue P45s to their Irish workers and move offshore to a Country with a reasonable approach to managing risks associatd with the pandemic.
    No skin off NPHETs back.


  • #4560
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Polar101 wrote: »
    That sounds like we are trying to come up with unlikely scenarios. These people could always get a rapid test at the airport, couldn't they?
    Getting a rapid test at the airport involves me arriving 2 hours earlier than I otherwise woudl have arrived.
    If I fail the test e.g. a False positive then I'm faced with not being able to board my flight and then arrange accommodation and transport to somewhere where I can isolate.
    It would have been nice to have been able to have had the test done up to 48 hours in advance which is the usual entry requirement for Counties which demand an Antigen test.

    The following areas in Ireland are considered Risk Areas in Germany.
    • Ireland (since 21 March 2021) – the following regions are currently classified as basic
    risk areas:
    o Border (since 21 March 2021)
    o Dublin (since 21 March 2021)
    o Mid-East (since 21 March 2021)

    If you have a false positive on an antigen test you can stay in the vicinity of Dublin Airport as then you will need to quarantine on travel to Germany. Doing an antigen test two hours before your flight is a very risky thing to be doing and as have been mentioned by those who are so in favour of prohibition of antigen tests Antigen Tests produce a lot of false positive results.


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  • #4561
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Will we ever get the answer of why Ireland had/is one of the most restricted countries in the world in this pandemic ?

    Is it cause of our culture which a big part of it is drinking and been social people ?

    Is it cause of our health system, one that the general has no control over ?

    Is it cause of the spineless leadership in the government who are frightened to make a decision and are hiding behind 'Health officials' ?

    beyond frustration at this point

    Why was and is Europe’s youngest nation suppressed the most for the longest, to combat a disease that effects the elderly??

    Why was that?

    Perhaps lack of leadership from government and nPHEt taking the lead, becoming a monster that can’t be stopped?


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