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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • #4502
    TheDoctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭TheDoctor


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Hopefully Micheal Martin can work a mike though , unlike Michael McNamara .

    If he answers every question like he mumbled through that one there, be better if he didn't have a mic.


  • #4503
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Arghus wrote: »
    Great stuff there from Michael McNamara.

    Spent thirty seconds on mute and then asked a question that had already been asked and answered.

    What a dude.

    Where was your 'dude' post when one of the NPHET members showed how to fake a test?


  • #4504
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Not sure if anyone watching or have seen a brilliant Documentary on BBC 2 tonight, the story behind the development of Vacinnes to fight covid. Its an Horizon special. Anyone whos missed it, really worth looking at.

    The process, development, Trials etc on all the Vacinnes, including the Chinese efforts (very unfairly, not covered much in the media), excellent interviews also.

    There is however a very Poignant warning towards the end by the very scientists who developed the successful Vacinnes, it won't please some, indeed it might horrify them, no spoilers but certainly worth looking at if you've access to BBC iplayer.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #4505
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    In fairness to him he was the only politician to stick his head above the parapet and ask for discussion behind the decisions since March 2020

    He's a politician, it is his job to raise his head and ask questions , and fair dues, Shannon is in his area so he should be representing for everyone in that region.

    But turn on your bloody mike, Mike !


  • #4506
    Leftwaffe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Leftwaffe


    Sir Tony and co are afraid we will wipe butter all over our antigen tests. They must think we're neanderthals altogether.


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  • #4507
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Very poor showing from NPHET today at that hearing, now sure what order to go in;

    How come they can all sit in a room together unmasked and not social distanced and when I go to my office I'm supposed to wear a mask at all times at my desk whether there is another colleague with 10 metres of me or not? I know I'm being contrary here but can the ones not making the rules at least follow them themselves if they exxoect the rest if us too?

    Why is the results of this report only being reported now? The testing was done in Jan and Feb I believe. They're on about a new report/test for colleges and aviation. We'll be lucky to get them back this year.

    How is this an independent report if a number of NPHET members are involved in it who are outspoken against Antigen tests in numerous occasions?

    Why was only a nasal self administered test done on asymptomatic cases when nasopharyngeal tests and professionally taken tests are known to be more accurate? Even at this, 80% of PCR tests were positive on antigen also when taking likely to be infectious (25 ct cycles).

    What the hell was the fake result thing about? I dont think anyone is looking for self administered tests to be rolled out for travel or events. The only people who would use self administered tests are people who are being cautious in the first place and doing tests off their own back. If they were going to fake an optional test result they just wouldn't bother with the test in the first place.


  • #4508
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,380 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Klonker wrote: »
    Where was your 'dude' post when one of the NPHET members showed how to fake a test?

    I've questions myself at this stage about NPHET's attitude to antigen testing, they do seem remarkably reluctant to endorse it and and I thought Tony Holohan was occasionally quite arrogant sounding and brusque with some of the politicians asking questions today. The members of NPHET aren't infallible.

    Nevertheless, I thought McNamara came across as a complete horse's ass.


  • #4509
    Timmy O Toole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 348 ✭✭Timmy O Toole


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A lie

    Cillian de Gascun is a consultant virologist who serves as Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD where PCR tests are processed, he is also The Chair on NPHET. Wheres the lie ?


  • #4510
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Timmy O Toole wrote: »
    Cillian de Gascun is a consultant virologist who serves as Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD where PCR tests are processed, he is also The Chair on NPHET. Wheres the lie ?

    That he benefits financially from tests carried out in what is not a private for profit organisation.

    And the NVRL only process a portion of tests


  • #4511
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 895 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Klonker wrote: »
    How come they can all sit in a room together unmasked and not social distanced and when I go to my office I'm supposed to wear a mask at all times at my desk whether there is another colleague with 10 metres of me or not? I know I'm being contrary here but can the ones not making the rules at least follow them themselves if they exxoect the rest if us too?
    .

    As petty as it might seem, this also always hits a nerve with me too. Seems these lads are safe at their briefings/pressers/committees once they’re speaking. If I remember correctly as well, it was very late into 2020 when masks started appearing at briefings and the likes.

    All while office workers, retail, teachers, gardai are told to wear masks at all times while working in doors. It creates the narrative that the rules don’t apply to the lads making them.


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  • #4512
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Klonker wrote: »

    How come they can all sit in a room together unmasked and not social distanced and when I go to my office I'm supposed to wear a mask at all times at my desk whether there is another colleague with 10 metres of me or not? I know I'm being contrary here but can the ones not making the rules at least follow them themselves if they exxoect the rest if us too?

    That’s a rule your office has chosen to enact, not national guidelines.


  • #4513
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Timmy O Toole wrote: »
    Cillian de Gascun is a consultant virologist who serves as Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD where PCR tests are processed, he is also The Chair on NPHET. Wheres the lie ?

    For what it's worth, I watched the entire hearing, it was utterly shocking and descended into a he, said, she said farce.

    Without exception the politicians were completely out of their depth, there wasnt an objective comment from one of them, and Michael McNamara just made a fool of himself.

    NPHET too where clearly on the defensive, The CMO poking at colleague's to intervene with their thoughts. The Tonic water antigen test was like a chemistry experiment you'd see at a primary school, completely embarrassing.

    NPHET ultimately B**** slapped the politicians, if it was a soccer match, the result would be 10 - Nill with quite a few red cards issued to both sides for what was quite simply a pantomime.

    Rarely have I seen Ronan Glynn or Du Gascon get agitated but they along with Philip Nolan grew more and more exasperated as the hearing progressed, dealing with some quite absurd and I'll informed demands (not questions) from politicians. It was a thundering disgrace and all to blame.

    Rant over :)

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #4514
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Klonker wrote: »
    Very poor showing from NPHET today at that hearing, now sure what order to go in;

    How come they can all sit in a room together unmasked and not social distanced and when I go to my office I'm supposed to wear a mask at all times at my desk whether there is another colleague with 10 metres of me or not? I know I'm being contrary here but can the ones not making the rules at least follow them themselves if they exxoect the rest if us too?

    Why is the results of this report only being reported now? The testing was done in Jan and Feb I believe. They're on about a new report/test for colleges and aviation. We'll be lucky to get them back this year.

    How is this an independent report if a number of NPHET members are involved in it who are outspoken against Antigen tests in numerous occasions?

    Why was only a nasal self administered test done on asymptomatic cases when nasopharyngeal tests and professionally taken tests are known to be more accurate? Even at this, 80% of PCR tests were positive on antigen also when taking likely to be infectious (25 ct cycles).

    What the hell was the fake result thing about? I dont think anyone is looking for self administered tests to be rolled out for travel or events. The only people who would use self administered tests are people who are being cautious in the first place and doing tests off their own back. If they were going to fake an optional test result they just wouldn't bother with the test in the first place.


    That last paragraph interests me .

    Why is everyone so het up about the antigen tests when it is so easy to walk in and get a very much more accurate PCR ?

    Let's be honest here ..It is cheaper to travel with antigen tests and easier to pass one while asymptomatic .

    If NPHET said antigen tests all round for every gig, every match, every social event , every workplace...but not for travel because that is where we need full accuracy at the moment , people would still be giving out and running incorrect comparisons between the tests on her

    It's about travel , full stop . Not the importance and usefulness of antigen testing .

    While the aviation industry is on its knees it is disingenuous to say that antigen testing will save it .

    What will save the industry and everything else in our economy is continuing to reduce this infection to just a cold, and one of the best ways to do that while we are vaccinating everybody we can, is by keeping this latest variant out as much as possible .
    We won't do that with antigen tests.

    We already have a leaky border up North , so we are literally running a race here so we don't get caught like the UK.


  • #4515
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Dempo1 wrote: »
    Awful Clown with an even more awful hair Quiff, I watch most of this debacle live, it was just bizzare, almost like a pantomime. Politicians utterly clueless on the topic of antigen testing, NPHET 100% on the same page, just a peculiar spectle.

    No doubt there's going to be some choice posts across boards celebrating (NOT) Tony Holohan picking up his freedom of Dublin award earlier :)

    We are very lucky in Ireland to have nPHEt and all their beliefs and faith regarding antigen

    Imagine using antigen tests as a tool to help catch cases that otherwise may not be detected and try to return to normal as fast as possible, like the public health teams across the rest of the globe have been doing

    Do those other nations not realise antigen tests can be faked at home?


  • #4516
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    That last paragraph interests me .

    Why is everyone so het up about the antigen tests when it is so easy to walk in and get a very much more accurate PCR ?

    Let's be honest here ..It is cheaper to travel with antigen tests and easier to pass one while asymptomatic .

    If NPHET said antigen tests all round for every gig, every match, every social event , every workplace...but not for travel because that is where we need full accuracy at the moment , people would still be giving out and running incorrect comparisons between the tests on her

    It's about travel , full stop . Not the importance and usefulness of antigen testing .

    While the aviation industry is on its knees it is disingenuous to say that antigen testing will save it .

    What will save the industry and everything else in our economy is continuing to reduce this infection to just a cold, and one of the best ways to do that while we are vaccinating everybody we can, is by keeping this latest variant out as much as possible .
    We won't do that with antigen tests.

    We already have a leaky border up North , so we are literally running a race here so we don't get caught like the UK.

    I wouldn’t like queuing for a match waiting for a PCR test and result!

    How was the UK caught?


  • #4517
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That’s a rule your office has chosen to enact, not national guidelines.

    National guidelines are to wear face coverings on crowded spaces. Looked a bit crowded on that video to me.

    I thought it was national guidelines to wear when in offices but looks like you're right, it's just my employers policy.


  • #4518
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,138 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    We are very lucky in Ireland to have nPHEt and all their beliefs and faith regarding antigen

    Imagine using antigen tests as a tool to help catch cases that otherwise may not be detected and try to return to normal as fast as possible, like the public health teams across the rest of the globe have been doing

    Do those other nations not realise antigen tests can be faked at home?

    I whole heartedly agree re NPHET, ive supported them from the outset , I'm still a little confused about the whole antigen testing debate. I do have to say today's hearing in the Dail was really quite bizzare, neither NPHET or Politicians crowned themselves in glory today, utterly embarrassing stuff.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #4519
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I wouldn’t like queuing for a match waiting for a PCR test and result!

    How was the UK caught?

    If you read my post ......:pac:

    I said antigen tests not PCR !

    PCR for travel .


  • #4520
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,380 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Klonker wrote: »

    What the hell was the fake result thing about? I dont think anyone is looking for self administered tests to be rolled out for travel or events.The only people who would use self administered tests are people who are being cautious in the first place and doing tests off their own back. If they were going to fake an optional test result they just wouldn't bother with the test in the first place.

    Are those not amongst some of the main industries that are arguing in favour of widespread use of antigen testing? Isn't that the basis of numerous questions that were put to NPHET today? Questions about travel and the role of antigen testing in it have certainly made up the majority of the conversation in this area here for the last few weeks.

    Surely, also, if antigen testing becomes extremely prevalent most of these tests will be self administered in practice?


  • #4521
    cheezums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭cheezums


    amazing how people continually find things to be outraged about. first it was lockdowns, then people saying our vaccination program was doomed before it even began. now the outrage is over antigen tests of all things.

    the pandemic is over lads, and we fared a lot better than most countries. NPHET took a conservative science based approach to this thing, which many countries did not. i'd rather have NPHET than some clueless populist morons like Bolsonaro or Trump making the calls.


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  • #4522
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    That last paragraph interests me .

    Why is everyone so het up about the antigen tests when it is so easy to walk in and get a very much more accurate PCR ?

    Let's be honest here ..It is cheaper to travel with antigen tests and easier to pass one while asymptomatic .

    If NPHET said antigen tests all round for every gig, every match, every social event , every workplace...but not for travel because that is where we need full accuracy at the moment , people would still be giving out and running incorrect comparisons between the tests on her

    It's about travel , full stop . Not the importance and usefulness of antigen testing .

    While the aviation industry is on its knees it is disingenuous to say that antigen testing will save it .

    What will save the industry and everything else in our economy is continuing to reduce this infection to just a cold, and one of the best ways to do that while we are vaccinating everybody we can, is by keeping this latest variant out as much as possible .
    We won't do that with antigen tests.

    We already have a leaky border up North , so we are literally running a race here so we don't get caught like the UK.

    It's debatable if PCR tests are more accurate, depends what you are looking for. If you're looking to find infectious individuals some experts say antigen tests are more accurate (Prof Michael Mina for example).

    If this is just about the travel industry why were NPHET giving examples of self administered tests on asymptomatic people when nobody is looking for or expecting self administered tests to be used for aviation? And why were the showing how to fake a test of all test in aviation would be professionally taken? Made no sense.

    You are wrong to think antigen tests won't help the aviation industry. Why is aviation here repeatedly calling for them to be excepted here if the wouldn't help? Are they just doing it for the craic? Whatll help save the aviation sector here is get rid of our stupid travel restrictions now and come in line with our EU counterparties on travel rules and testing.


  • #4523
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Klonker wrote: »
    National guidelines are to wear face coverings on crowded spaces. Looked a bit crowded on that video to me.

    I thought it was national guidelines to wear when in offices but looks like you're right, it's just my employers policy.

    Without having watched it I’d imagine they were two meters apart.


  • #4524
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Antigen tests are used in Western Europe to control the spread of the virus but not in Ireland. Medical Professionals in the rest of Western Europe are not incompetent.
    Ireland remains closed for business to the rest of Europe. If you want to visit Ireland you are paying for an expensive PCR test and then find the means of travelling to Ireland is severely restricted as flights are removed from service due to being uneconomic to operate with reduced passenger loads.


  • #4525
    cheezums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭cheezums


    the only thing that controls the spread of the virus is vaccines. this "test test test" thing has always been nonsense and hasn't worked in a single country no matter how easy or instant it is. the virus is too contagious and people in general do not follow guidelines.


  • #4526
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    Arghus wrote: »
    Are those not amongst some of the main industries that are arguing in favour of widespread use of antigen testing? Isn't that the basis of numerous questions that were put to NPHET today? Questions about travel and the role of antigen testing in it have certainly made up the majority of the conversation in this area here for the last few weeks.

    Surely, also, if antigen testing becomes extremely prevalent most of these tests will be self administered in practice?

    You purposefully ignored the 'self administered' part of my comment on your first paragraph then threw it in in a different context in your second paragraph to make it look like you didn't ignore. Obviously don't have a good response if that's what you're resorting too. Nobody had looked for self admin tests for travel and you know this.


  • #4527
    fun loving criminal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭fun loving criminal


    Hoping someone will be able to answer this for me or someone with the same experience or similar.

    I cannot go to work if somebody in my house has to get a covid test. What if somebody in my house went abroad, on their return they have to isolate and get a test a few days after they return.

    Do I have to isolate along with their self isolation until their test comes back?


  • #4528
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cheezums wrote: »
    the only thing that controls the spread of the virus is vaccines. this "test test test" thing has always been nonsense and hasn't worked in a single country no matter how easy or instant it is. the virus is too contagious and people in general do not follow guidelines.
    You are not well informed at all. Testing is exactly what Germany has done. They have blanket coverage of antigen testing and then PCR testing where there is a positive result on an antigen test. The outcome is a 7 day value of 13.2 cases per 100,000 of population.
    I'd suggest you travel more and broaden your horizons but in Ireland foreign travel is effectively verboten so it is no wonder you parrot the guidance of NPHET.


  • #4529
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Klonker wrote: »
    It's debatable if PCR tests are more accurate, depends what you are looking for. If you're looking to find infectious individuals some experts say antigen tests are more accurate (Prof Michael Mina for example).

    If this is just about the travel industry why were NPHET giving examples of self administered tests on asymptomatic people when nobody is looking for or expecting self administered tests to be used for aviation? And why were the showing how to fake a test of all test in aviation would be professionally taken? Made no sense.

    You are wrong to think antigen tests won't help the aviation industry. Why is aviation here repeatedly calling for them to be excepted here if the wouldn't help? Are they just doing it for the craic? Whatll help save the aviation sector here is get rid of our stupid travel restrictions now and come in line with our EU counterparties on travel rules and testing.

    Yeah I knew that was what it was about .
    It won't help anyone as I said if we let much more of that variant in while we are not all fully vaxxed and end up restricted longer . That will prolong their misery more in the travel industry .
    Been here before with people saying open all up when opening slowly.
    By August the aviation and nany more will pretty much be getting back to normal here .

    By the way Mina has an agenda ...


  • #4530
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Antigen tests are used in Western Europe to control the spread of the virus but not in Ireland. Medical Professionals in the rest of Western Europe are not incompetent.
    Ireland remains closed for business to the rest of Europe. If you want to visit Ireland you are paying for an expensive PCR test and then find the means of travelling to Ireland is severely restricted as flights are removed from service due to being uneconomic to operate with reduced passenger loads.

    What restrictions have Western Eutope on the UK do you know ?


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  • #4531
    cheezums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 716 ✭✭✭cheezums


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are not well informed at all. Testing is exactly what Germany has done. They have blanket coverage of antigen testing and then PCR testing where there is a positive result on an antigen test. The outcome is a 7 day value of 13.2 cases per 100,000 of population.
    I'd suggest you travel more and broaden your horizons but in Ireland foreign travel is effectively verboten so it is no wonder you parrot the guidance of NPHET.

    and if you were more informed you would know that antigen tests mostly catch people with symptoms and at the height of their infection. i.e. a small fraction of covid positive people. i.e. completely useless for controlling a virus.

    if you want to travel, wait until you get a vaccine.


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