What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

is_that_so · 16-06-2021 03:21PM

Furze99 wrote: »

I've asked before and must have missed your reply. Please clarify if you've received a vaccine, one or two doses and of which make.

I ask as you seem to be very keen on promoting the AZ vaccine line.

I'm a fan of whatever is going into my arm and would encourage people to take whatever they are being offered. I think they are all great and effective. Offering an explanation and details on how a vaccine is being used is not promoting it. This is a thread about AZ so it's no great surprise to see people talking about it and giving opinions.

rayfitzharris · 16-06-2021 03:22PM

There are also people who have had severe adverse side-effects of the AZ first dose.
I know of 2 people, one who had clotting in the foot that began to move up her leg.
The problem is there is no-one to contact when something like this happens, she tried her GP who told her to go to A&E, A&E did not take her seriously and suggested she was the lowest possible priority and was in for a long long wait.
she left A&E after 3+ hours, only to be rang by a consultant in the middle of the night asking her to come back. Thankfully she was ok in the end.

The second (Health care worker, very pro vaccination); had symptoms which were listed on the accompanying leaflet as very serious and to seek medical assistance immediately (severe abdominal pain). She rang her GP who was not seeing anyone due to covid :rolleyes: and to take paracetamol. She was like this for weeks, and took over a month to fully recover.
Her GP is now not recommending the 2nd dose; but at the same time told her NIAC are not recommending anything else, so she is in left in limbo.

She has had to cancel her 2nd dose AZ and as she did was told she wont be contacted about vaccination again

what are these people to do?

Furze99 · 16-06-2021 04:11PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm a fan of whatever is going into my arm and would encourage people to take whatever they are being offered. I think they are all great and effective. Offering an explanation and details on how a vaccine is being used is not promoting it. This is a thread about AZ so it's no great surprise to see people talking about it and giving opinions.

Yes... but what vaccine have you been given?

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

Edited to add that I haven't heard any of the latter publicly say what vaccines they've taken. Martin, An Taoiseach is the only significant figure I've heard say what he got. But I think in absence of them telling us and given their age etc., that's what they'd be stuck with.

is_that_so · 16-06-2021 04:20PM

Furze99 wrote: »

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

I don't advocate one vaccine over another, this is how AZ has been used. I believe this is factual or at the very least a logical evaluation. If it's wrong I am happy to be corrected. The main gripe about AZ, excluding those who opted not to take it, is that 12 week gap.

16-06-2021 07:59PM

Furze99 wrote: »

Yes... but what vaccine have you been given?

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

Edited to add that I haven't heard any of the latter publicly say what vaccines they've taken. Martin, An Taoiseach is the only significant figure I've heard say what he got. But I think in absence of them telling us and given their age etc., that's what they'd be stuck with.

The leader of the country and the head of the HSE have both taken AZ (fairly high profile individuals).

Most if not all of the others above took what was given for their age.

There probably is abit of the above re: posters, but thats just life.

My view AZ its a bit more risky safety wise especially for young women in particular and when taking first dose.

AZ is a bit slower to be protective, but once you've got a month post second dose they are essentially the same as real world studies in UK suggest.

The biggest problem is most of us dont really understand vaccines and everything is happening so fast.

I'd have lads 20 stone with a number of underlying conditions bragging to me that they got Pfzier as if its a covid shield compared to healthy people with AZ.

Its pure irish behaviour look what im driving, where i live, where im going on holidays.

In a few months it could change like the wind.

At least with AZ the british will study it and study it so we will get plenty of data which so far is good.

Finish your course and chill.

I know in the UK AZ vs. Pfzier is not really a thing.

Some people feel even patriotic taking it.

Like a french man buying a renault.

Also I dont think most of us are done yet with Vaccines.

Booster trials in UK and Ireland are happening at present.

It seems that its likely mixing vaccines will be better.

So once you have got through the safety risk of initial AZ's a Pfzier vaccine booster will be very good efficacy.

However due to safety risks its unlikely other irish with MRNA's already will be given booster AZ.

In the end it will even out or possibly even be an advantage for current AZ vaccinated. [/B]

At the end of day the risk of covid is its novelty to adults.

AZ vaccine means its no longer novel to you with a technology that is a lot more established and understood.

I would have taken any of the vaccines and took first offered.

The only one I was sceptical of was J&J.

I like the idea of two doses to reinforce the virus to the immune system a second time.

Also studies will be scant for J&J (unloved by all countries).

At least the british love AZ.

deeperlearning · 16-06-2021 11:20PM

Woody79 wrote: »

At least the british love AZ.

I don't think they do.

It's really difficult to find an appointment for a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine in the UK at the moment. The slots are booked solid.

In contrast, you can come whenever you want for an AstraZeneca.

astrofool · 17-06-2021 12:17AM

67% first doses in the UK were AZ, pressure on Pfizer is because younger groups can't get AZ anymore and they're the main group left to go (luckily we have a good supply of Pfizer in Europe).

Lumen · 17-06-2021 06:54AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Why take a chance on a brain aneurysm when you can just hold out and get a better second shot from Pfizer.

Where do your concerns about brain aneurysms come from?

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-06-2021 08:38AM

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Anyone young should still be apprehensive about the risk of clotting even from the second dose.

Unfortunately we just don’t have enough data on second doses.

Why take a chance on a brain aneurysm when you can just hold out and get a better second shot from Pfizer.

Old and young vulnerable were short changed by this disgraceful government.

If you're that worried about blood clots from the vaccine then may I suggest you never take paracetamol ever again.

MadYaker · 17-06-2021 09:08AM

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

Professor Moriarty · 17-06-2021 09:19AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you're that worried about blood clots from the vaccine then may I suggest you never take paracetamol ever again.

Could try an alternative pain killer such as ibuprofen But that depends on where you live. For example, why is there no ibuprofen in the jungle? Because the paracetamol.

17-06-2021 09:21AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

You mean the evidence that it is at least 92% effective following second dose?

duffman13 · 17-06-2021 09:26AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

Hadn't popped my head in here a while, 2nd dose of AZ on Monday on the back of PHE report around efficacy. I decided to stick with what I'd gotten, given I'd potentially have a higher risk factor from Pfizer given the heart issues in Israel. Both are miniscule to me but AZ seemed like a logical choice for me based on efficacy data available which has only hardened in recent days.

Anyway, you'll likely get to decide given the rumblings but waiting another 6 weeks potentially for a second dose with Pfizer didn't seem the best choice given I work in a public environment and AZ offered me be better protection than waiting.

Furze99 · 17-06-2021 10:26AM

Woody79 wrote: »

The leader of the country and the head of the HSE have both taken AZ (fairly high profile individuals).

Most if not all of the others above took what was given for their age.

I would have taken any of the vaccines and took first offered.

I've read your comments carefully as you are in the AZ vaccine regime and therefore have skin in the game. So I respect that.

I do think there are others here advocating for AZ that been given other vaccines - I've little time for their arguments.

Did Paul Reid take an AZ vaccine, two doses?? He's 57 I believe so in terms of general population he'd be on Pfizer or Moderna. But maybe he got vaccinated early on as part of HSE staff?

I'll quite likely end up getting the second dose of AZ but that does not stop me from stating the obvious. To wit, that people in their 60s in the general population have been chosen as a group by the authorities to dump this vaccine on. I firmly believe that this AZ vaccine would not be in use if there were sufficient supplies of alternatives. So this policy has been applied as much for political and economy reasons as opposed to strict health considerations. I don't like being such a pawn and I suspect neither do many other people in this age cohort. Ultimately the government parties will get a good kicking for this.

is_that_so · 17-06-2021 10:44AM

Furze99 wrote: »

I've read your comments carefully as you are in the AZ vaccine regime and therefore have skin in the game. So I respect that.

I do think there are others here advocating for AZ that been given other vaccines - I've little time for their arguments.

Did Paul Reid take an AZ vaccine, two doses?? He's 57 I believe so in terms of general population he'd be on Pfizer or Moderna. But maybe he got vaccinated early on as part of HSE staff?

I'll quite likely end up getting the second dose of AZ but that does not stop me from stating the obvious. To wit, that people in their 60s in the general population have been chosen as a group by the authorities to dump this vaccine on. I firmly believe that this AZ vaccine would not be in use if there were sufficient supplies of alternatives. So this policy has been applied as much for political and economy reasons as opposed to strict health considerations. I don't like being such a pawn and I suspect neither do many other people in this age cohort. Ultimately the government parties will get a good kicking for this.

Quite a few of those in the 50s are in the same boat with J&J, no choice. From the people I know they were very keen to be one and done. I also know 60 somethings who couldn't wait to queue up for AZ and the massive uptake suggests the vaccine was never an issue for them.

I don't get why people are looking to blame politicians, they have absolutely no input into the programme. I doubt Paul Reid has much influence either. He's very much a delegator to people who can.

paintinglasses · 17-06-2021 10:47AM

I am due to get my second dose soon, I'm in my 30s and part of Cohort 4. I got my first dose a few days before they announced AZ was unsuitable for under 60s. I feel like the government and NIAC dragged their feet in making this decision. They had the report from the EMA on the clotting issue for a full week before finally making a decision.

I was told that I would go to the back of the queue, no choice in vaccines etc so I *chose* (nobody forced me) to get AZ as my consultant had put me in the very high risk group. While I'm disappointed in how this vaccine roll out has happened, I will get my second dose and hope the guidance doesn't change (again!). But it is a stressful few weeks after the vaccine so I'm not looking forward to that again.

Chivito550 · 17-06-2021 11:09AM

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

duffman13 · 17-06-2021 11:13AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it back to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I was grand, I had a headache and a bit of brain fog the next day but I hate injections so may have been brought on by myself:D I was absolutely floored after the first one. Not sure on a run the next day, i went out for a run the next two days after and felt very leggy tbh. But I'm not the type to be competing at a national championship

is_that_so · 17-06-2021 11:18AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

Know someone who's had both, no noticeable effect either time. Would be fairly fit if not at your level. They also got done in 13 weeks rather than the original 16 weeks.

robinph · 17-06-2021 11:45AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

My first dose hit me bad for a day, and then other medical numbers were a bit out of whack for another few days but that isn't something that most people would notice in themselves.

My second dose didn't affect me in the slightest, although I'd taken a few days off bothering with any training as much out of laziness as anything. Was zero symptoms at all though. Friend who had each of their doses around the same time as each of mine was hit slightly worse on the first one, and then totally floored for 24 hours + from the the second one.

Not really any way to predict, just hydrate, pop some paracetamol and hope for the best.

Telly · 17-06-2021 12:30PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I was grand with my second dose as i was with the first. Didnt get any side effects at all with either of them.

deeperlearning · 17-06-2021 01:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean the evidence that it is at least 92% effective following second dose?

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

astrofool · 17-06-2021 01:57PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

17-06-2021 02:16PM

astrofool wrote: »

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

It gets confusing as by definition hospitalisation is symptomatic disease
As I understand it the 8% chance of hospitalisation is a subset of the 40% who may get symptomatic disease
I do recall reading that the 60% related to against symptomatic infections alright
Its buried earlier in this thread from last week

17-06-2021 06:47PM

deeperlearning wrote: »

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

So your relying on a study of a few 1000 odd people re: delta.

The sample size is literally tiny.

We heard the same things re lower efficacy in early 2021 from small trials etc.

AZ has slightly higher risk safety issues especially in younger women.

AZ is also a little slower to reach optimum protection (possible reason why lower efficacy in very small trials in short time periods).

That's it basically.

Its suffered some reputational damage from the above but essentially its the same thing a few weeks after your second dose.

Real world data is better than trials etc.

https://scroll.in/latest/995444/covid-19-two-astrazeneca-doses-around-90-effective-in-real-world-analysis-says-uk-health-agency

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/covid-vaccines-provided-protection-in-over-95-pc-of-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-says-study20210616200420/

Delta variant study in India 95% effective against infections 0 deaths.

Not bad in the biggest covid hotspot in the planet.

Its literally getting better, not worse:D 0 deaths.

India will be another greater study for AZ.

At this stage I'm done with these scariants.

Get to Israeli levels of vaccines 85% and pandemic in a given country is over.

deeperlearning · 17-06-2021 09:49PM

In the US, only FDA-approved vaccines will be accepted as proof of vaccination in order to be allowed to attend concerts and other events.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/world/bruce-springsteen-broadway-vaccine.html

AstraZeneca will not be accepted as it is not FDA-approved.

Attendees under 16 are exempt but must show proof that they tested negative on a recent coronavirus test.

BonnieSituation · 18-06-2021 05:00AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

Got second AZ dose on Monday.

Only lasting effect was a heavy lead arm on Tuesday and had to sleep with a pillow under it. Tender around the needle point entry for the first day or so.

Other than that nothing. Been as normal since Wednesday.

The first one floored me just as a heads up. So based on me and most mates of my age (mid-30s) they've been almost exactly the same.

volchitsa · 18-06-2021 09:43AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I felt awful the first time (AZ as well), barely able to drag myself out of bed for the first day, and that was bookended by two nights where I woke up about 4 am with huge fever shakes (not as bad the second night TBF) and that was with taking paracetamol regularly, starting before the symptoms even started, which I'd been advised to do by the doctor who gave me the injection. All over the following morning though.

Second time around, I think I took one paracetamol just in case, but apart from a slightly sore arm, I'd pretty much forgotten I'd even had the jab by the next morning.

I know lots of other people who had two AZ jabs as well (this is in Northern Ireland where AZ was nearly the norm for a long time) and most people who had a reaction the first time had far less or no reaction second time around.

I know fewer people who got Pfizer but anecdotally it seems to be the other way around: more severe results tend to happen with the second dose.

loughside · 18-06-2021 03:16PM

EU Loses Case Against AstraZeneca

AstraZeneca welcomes Court ruling on supply of its COVID-19 vaccine to EU:

AstraZeneca to-day welcomed the ruling by the Court of First Instance in Brussels. The European Commission had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021 The edge ordered delivery of 802 million closes by 27 September 2021 To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80 2 million doses by the end of June 2021 All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

loughside · 18-06-2021 03:16PM

The EU have treated AZ appallingly. Trashing their vaccine, abusing their powers by sending in the police to raid their offices (over a commercial dispute!) and finally trying to bully them through the courts.

If I were AZ I'd be looking to get out of dodge asap and only do business with individual member states in the future. You simply don't need customers this difficult.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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