Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

JRant · 16-06-2021 07:56PM

Marcusm wrote: »

He’s absolutely wrong. They made it clear that by the time they even start thinking about antigen tests that 19/7 will have come and they will be happy for travel to occur without any tests. It’s a usurpation of function. There was a reference to the resources involved in planning and carrying out antigen effectiveness testing. Huh, we’re using the vaccines based on a desktop review of overseas trials. I wouldn’t mind so much if they said that antigen tests only have validity when the sample is collected by a trained professional and others couldn’t be trusted. There is some validity to that.

I watched a lot of the committee meeting earlier and it was painful viewing. They kept referencing rapid tests were not as good as PCR on asymptomatic cases. As if this is new information. Everything was negative when speaking about rapid testing. When you are carrying out an unbiased review you need to look at the positives and negatives. That was not done today. At one stage the CMO laid the blame at the airline industry for not coming forward with a proposal to use rapid testing even though they have been super clear they will not use them

JRant · 16-06-2021 08:00PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. You just made up the highlighted bit.

Even by the appalling standards of some of the replies - thats an extremely poor effort.

In case you forgot what was being referenced - and where "we've done fairly well" Here it is again.

https://i.imgflip.com/5dek78.jpg

So in relation to those two outcomes detailed in the charts - do explain what upsets you so?

When you said "we've done fairly well" you weren't talking about our COVID response yet you provide a graph for a single aspect of our COVID response. Right, I don't think I'm the one confused here. We've done okay in some aspects but absolutely appallingly in many others.

Boggles · 16-06-2021 08:02PM

JRant wrote: »

I watched a lot of the committee meeting earlier and it was painful viewing. They kept referencing rapid tests were not as good as PCR on asymptomatic cases. As if this is new information. Everything was negative when speaking about rapid testing. When you are carrying out an unbiased review you need to look at the positives and negatives. That was not done today. At one stage the CMO laid the blame at the airline industry for not coming forward with a proposal to use rapid testing even though they have been super clear they will not use them

The highlight.

The Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Dr Ronan Glynn took issue with a reference by Senator Gerry Buttimer to a Lancet peer review of air passengers who used antigen testing.

"This is precisely the issue that we're talking about. That is a simulation study, it's a modelling study. It's people sitting at a computer and estimating what might happen if we do this in this type of setting, it's not real-world evidence of real-world utility and that's what we need," Dr Glynn asserted.

Fumbling and fúcking around with antigen testing when vaccinated people neither require it nor are they even deemed close contacts anymore.

If it took 80 nurses to test 5,000 people for a gig over 12 hours, can you imagine the fúcking state of the airports if it were introduced?

Absolute time wasters.

_Kaiser_ · 16-06-2021 08:20PM

Boggles wrote: »

The highlight.

"This is precisely the issue that we're talking about. That is a simulation study, it's a modelling study. It's people sitting at a computer and estimating what might happen if we do this in this type of setting, it's not real-world evidence of real-world utility and that's what we need," Dr Glynn asserted.

Wait.. what? Glynn has issues with models and lab theory being used to determine real-world policy and responses?

Er.... hmmm. Does anyone want to point it out to him...? (awkward!)

Absolute time wasters.

You got that right! Glynn, his boss, and his NPHET colleagues have been wasting all our time for about a year now!

gozunda · 16-06-2021 08:20PM

JRant wrote: »

When you said "we've done fairly well" you weren't talking about our COVID response yet you provide a graph for a single aspect of our COVID response. Right, I don't think I'm the one confused here. We've done okay in some aspects but absolutely appallingly in many others.

This is your last comment btw.

JRant wrote:

You did say our COVID response did fairly well.

So which is it? I was talking about it or I wasn't talking about it? You can't have it both ways.

Time to give over, drop the shovel and stop digging and admit you're wrong. No one was discussing 'others' except where you decided to add them after the discussion was over in order to throw ****e.

Telling someone what they were or weren't talking about is simply an excuse of the lowest order

If you had actually read what was being discussed in that conversation - you would note it was Public Health. And it was our success in public health with regard to Covid cases and deaths which was linked.

So please answer the question what is it about that data which highlights that we've done fairly well in having achieved low case and death rates thats upsets you so?

JRant · 16-06-2021 08:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

The highlight.

Fumbling and fúcking around with antigen testing when vaccinated people neither require it nor are they even deemed close contacts anymore.

If it took 80 nurses to test 5,000 people for a gig over 12 hours, can you imagine the fúcking state of the airports if it were introduced?

Absolute time wasters.

Hehe, and he said it without an ounce of irony with Prof Nolan sitting 3 feet away from him

JRant · 16-06-2021 08:32PM

gozunda wrote: »

This is your last comment btw.

So which is it? I was talking about it or I wasn't talking about it? You can't have it both ways.

Time to give over, drop the shovel and stop digging and admit you're wrong. No one was discussing 'others' except where you decided to add them after the discussion was over in order to throw ****e.

Telling someone what they were or weren't talking about is simply an excuse of the lowest order

If you had actually read what was being discussed in that conversation - you would note it was Public Health. And it was our success in public health with regard to Covid cases and deaths which was linked.

So please answer the question what is it about that data which highlights that we've done fairly well in having achieved low case and death rates thats upsets you so?

You're claiming to want to have it both ways. COVID response/public health response -okay is some areas, abysmal in many others.

You really expect someone to answer anything put to them in such a passive aggressive manner. Maybe try being clearer about what you are on it and don't get the hump with other at the drop of a hat. Oh, and it's always nice to be polite.

Tenger · 16-06-2021 09:04PM

Boggles wrote: »

If it took 80 nurses to test 5,000 people for a gig over 12 hours, can you imagine the fúcking state of the airports if it were introduced?
......

The airline pilots and crew who were at the Dail today all got tested within an hour at IALPA HQ. That’s 350 in an hour.

Dublin airport is currently getting about 2000 arrivals a day. So a similar setup could process those over 7 hours. And airports are specifically designed to handle people queuing and getting documentation checked before they join another queue.
The test centres in the airport (of which there are 3) could handle an increase in arrivals and carry out antigen testing.

16-06-2021 09:06PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some, yes. Every city? No.

Closer to two weeks' time than one week.

Have a look at the crowds in Portugal and Hungary yesterday. I will be amazed if the cases don't spike. Whether or not that spike is countered by other measures remains to be seen.

Do you expect there to be zero transmission of the virus in a stadium packed to the gills with 60,000+ fans, even with their high % of vaccinations?

Based on rates in Hungary at the moment there were statistically likely to be only a few infected shedding virus in the crowd. I would be surprised if a single event would show up much in the data. It would only be weeks later when 2nd and 3rd degree contacts start spreading that it would be detectable.

gozunda · 16-06-2021 09:22PM

JRant wrote: »

You're claiming to want to have it both ways. COVID response/public health response -okay is some areas, abysmal in many others. You really expect someone to answer anything put to them in such a passive aggressive manner. Maybe try being clearer about what you are on it and don't get the hump with other at the drop of a hat. Oh, and it's always nice to be polite.

Nope. Never have. Still notable you're employing back peddling and obfuscatican. Won't admit you're clearly wrong as to what had been discussed or answer a simple question as to what is it about the successes we've had in relation to our low case and death rates that apparently upsets you.

But yes politeness is always good. Throwing around made up rubbish pretending others are happy that people are out of work or on waiting lists is puerile.

paddyisreal · 16-06-2021 09:24PM

A quick Google will tell the geniuses in here the following

Denmark - they actually promote antigen testing

https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/symptoms_tested-positive-or-a-close-contact/on-being-tested

Uk- antigen testing accepted for entry for travel

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-for-people-travelling-to-england

Germany - for nightclubs no less

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/europe/germany-covid-rapid-antigen-tests.html

France - guess what travel again !

https://uk.ambafrance.org/COVID-19-rules-for-travel-to-France-and-the-UK

Italy - travel yet again !!!

https://www.afar.com/magazine/italy-is-reopening-to-travelers-heres-everything-you-need-to-know[/url

Austria /// they are giving them away !

https://www.acv.at/en/healthservice/rapid-testing/

So what do our nphet and Dr Tony know about these antigen tests that the other countries don't....

Doesn't add up at all

suicide_circus · 16-06-2021 09:34PM

Graham wrote: »

and yet it's only really the anti-Tony lobby that ever mention him.

Have you read a news article in the last year?

CruelSummer · 16-06-2021 09:36PM

NPHET’s contributions today only clarified what is already widely known. They are wrong on antigen testing. They are pretending we will miss ‘asymptomatic cases’ when in actual fact antigen tests are used to measure if a person is infectious at that point in time.
The worst and frankly most outrageous contribution came from a NPHET member demonstrating how to fake an at home antigen test kit.
No one in the aviation or other industries suggested using home kits. Their assertion that it would take 80 nurses to run antigen tests for a gig of 8,000 highlights the fact they know this but still went along with cuckoo internet science to back up their argument.
If I was in working in the decimated travel sector, entertainment or other affected industries this evening, I would be rightly outraged. They didn’t even read the commissioned report on antigen testing according to Dr Glynn. Jobs, our connectivity, everything is in jeopardy from this.
The Government are worse for hiding behind Dr Holohan & NPHET - instead of looking at international evidence & best practices + actually governing. NPHET are who they are, an ultra conservative group of doctors, some with a God complex. They are not evil boogey men but they showed their utter disregard for the Irish population & their intelligence with the contributions today & need to be overruled on this.

JRant · 16-06-2021 09:45PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Never have. Still notable you're employing back peddling and obfuscatican. Won't admit you're clearly wrong as to what had been discussed or answer a simple question as to what is it about the successes we've had in relation to our low case and death rates that apparently upsets you.

But yes politeness is always good. Throwing around made up rubbish pretending others are happy that people are out of work or on waiting lists is puerile.

You did say we've done fairly well with our response. To any reasonable reader of a statement like that it's clear you think we've done a good job. When, in truth, we've done well in a some very narrow areas and quite badly in many others. Nothing made up or rubbish about anything I'm saying.

16-06-2021 09:46PM

paddyisreal wrote: »

A quick Google will tell the geniuses in here the following

Denmark - they actually promote antigen testing

https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/symptoms_tested-positive-or-a-close-contact/on-being-tested

Uk- antigen testing accepted for entry for travel

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-for-people-travelling-to-england

Germany - for nightclubs no less

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/world/europe/germany-covid-rapid-antigen-tests.html

France - guess what travel again !

https://uk.ambafrance.org/COVID-19-rules-for-travel-to-France-and-the-UK

Italy - travel yet again !!!

https://www.afar.com/magazine/italy-is-reopening-to-travelers-heres-everything-you-need-to-know[/url

Austria /// they are giving them away !

https://www.acv.at/en/healthservice/rapid-testing/

So what do our nphet and Dr Tony know about these antigen tests that the other countries don't....

Doesn't add up at all

Just Denmark:

An Antigen test – a rapid diagnostic test that can detect the presence of viral proteins (antigens) in a sample taken by a nasal swab. An antigen test (also known as a rapid (antigen) test) is a chemical test that detects viral proteins in a sample taken by a nasal swab. The rapid test is less sensitive than the PCR test and does not give an equally secure answer. However, you get your result back within 15 minutes and can help break the chains of infection faster.

You should take a PCR test and not a rapid antigen test if you have symptoms or are a close contact of someone who has tested positive for novel coronavirus.

A rapid test, like the PCR test, is only a snapshot of your infection status at the time of testing. Therefore, it is essential that you continue to comply with the infection prevention recommendations, even if your test result is negative.

What is a false positive test result?

Antigen tests can yield false positive test results. A false positive is when someone who does not have coronavirus tests positive for it. When there is a low prevalence of infection in society, and we use antigen tests on people who are at little risk of being infected – more people will get a false positive test result, and this could potentially make us think there are significantly more cases of COVID-19 than there really are.

Therefore, if you are tested positive with an antigen test, you must have taken a follow-up PCR test as soon as possible, which will either confirm or deny the result of the antigen test. In this way, you avoid being in self-isolation for longer than necessary. At the same time, the PCR test can show if you are infected with a virus variant.

Please bear in my that any test result is only a snapshot of your infection status at the time of testing, which is why it is essential that you continue to comply with the infection prevention recommendations - even if your test result is negative

gozunda · 16-06-2021 09:47PM

robbiezero wrote: »

Of course. That approach makes sense. Beats being the slowest in Europe just because of what MIGHT happen (which I note you take for granted would happen.

Things go slightly wrong like in the UK, we probably only have to delay to the point we are doing now anyway.

Things go right as they quite likely would have, we are open 2 months earlier, we likely have an idea what areas actually contribute to rises, what can remain open, what needs to be delayed etc.

And people actually buy into that as they can see the data and rises in hospitalizations etc. Everyone bought into it in Jan and Feb and most in March. Most people that I can know think the pace of easing since then has been ridiculous and have widely ignored them.

The clownish trialling we are doing now could and should have been done in March.

You mention the UK. The UK also experienced a significant rise in cases and hospitalisations at the end of 2020 / beginning of 2021. They also had strict restrictions and only rolled these back as they reached milestones within their vaccination programme.

Trial events from the 16th of April onwards were scheduled relative to those milestones.

Are you saying we should have been less cautious than the UK and held trials in March a full month and a half before they did?

And that even though we're approx 1-2 months behind the UK with our vaccination rates...

How would that work?

damianmcr · 16-06-2021 09:48PM

Deal with weddings lads? Confirmed that definitely going to 50 in July and 100 in August?

16-06-2021 09:51PM

damianmcr wrote: »

Deal with weddings lads? Confirmed that definitely going to 50 in July and 100 in August?

Not allowed talk about actual relaxation of restrictions here

paddyisreal · 16-06-2021 09:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Just Denmark:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/ireland-s-not-ireland-without-its-social-life-why-don-t-we-copy-denmark-and-get-it-back-1.4576849

Yes Denmark actively promote it ......

JRant · 16-06-2021 09:55PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just Denmark:

That all looks completely reasonable and makes perfect sense. Any test is only a snapshot in time and if showing symptoms isolate and get a PCR. Seems like a perfectly sensible approach.

Graham · 16-06-2021 09:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not allowed talk about actual relaxation of restrictions here

Let's try. Talk of antigen testing and football is yawn inspiring.

damianmcr wrote: »

Deal with weddings lads? Confirmed that definitely going to 50 in July and 100 in August?

5th July - 50 guests (subject to the public health situation at the time)

Aug - Maximum attendance at wedding receptions and celebrations to increase to 100 (under consideration)

Source

JRant · 16-06-2021 09:57PM

damianmcr wrote: »

Deal with weddings lads? Confirmed that definitely going to 50 in July and 100 in August?

Nothing confirmed yet unfortunately. They've given broad outlines but weddings have their own set of perculiar restrictions. We'll probably get an update towards the end of the month.

gozunda · 16-06-2021 10:09PM

JRant wrote: »

You did say we've done fairly well with our response. To any reasonable reader of a statement like that it's clear you think we've done a good job. When, in truth, we've done well in a some very narrow areas and quite badly in many others. Nothing made up or rubbish about anything I'm saying.

Nope.

You claim stuff like this with a straight face? - when its obviously made up.

JRant wrote:

Good to know you are happy with so many people out of work and over 1 million on waiting lists.

And not like that wasn't already pointed out for you by another poster.

Graham wrote: »

Said nobody ever

I dont mind a bit of honest debating. But not rubbish. I'll leave you at it

JRant · 16-06-2021 10:48PM

gozunda wrote: »

Nope.

You claim stuff like this with a straight face? - when its obviously made up.

And not like that wasn't already pointed out for you by another poster.

I dont mind a bit of honest debating. But not rubbish. I'll leave you at it

Nothing made up at all. You just don't like what I've said and decided the passive aggressive approach is the way forward.

MOR316 · 16-06-2021 11:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not allowed talk about actual relaxation of restrictions here

Graham wrote: »

Let's try. Talk of antigen testing and football is yawn inspiring.

Well in fairness, Tony Holohan's words today are in direct relation to relaxation of future restrictions and what it may mean for society and various sectors in the coming months so, anything that has been discussed today is perfectly valid.

Not trying to be bad but, your posts to me translate to, "well we know Tony is wrong about this but, to save face, let's stop talking about it." Otherwise, I don't see any issue with it. It's the thread for it.

Sorry if that's not the case but, to me, after reading both your posts over the last few months, it's what I got from them

niallo27 · 16-06-2021 11:12PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Well in fairness, Tony Holohan's words today are in direct relation to relaxation of future restrictions and what it may mean for society and various sectors in the coming months so, anything that has been discussed today is perfectly valid.

Not trying to be bad but, your posts to me translate to, "well we know Tony is wrong about this but, to save face, let's stop talking about it." Otherwise, I don't see any issue with it. It's the thread for it.

Sorry if that's not the case but, to me, after reading both your posts over the last few months, it's what I got from them

Of course it is, it's constant deflection. Whatever about the football, trying to dismiss talk of antigen testing is bizarre, God forbid we would talk bad of Tony.

16-06-2021 11:14PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Well in fairness, Tony Holohan's words today are in direct relation to relaxation of future restrictions and what it may mean for society and various sectors in the coming months so, anything that has been discussed today is perfectly valid.

Not trying to be bad but, your posts to me translate to, "well we know Tony is wrong about this but, to save face, let's stop talking about it." Otherwise, I don't see any issue with it. It's the thread for it.

Sorry if that's not the case but, to me, after reading both your posts over the last few months, it's what I got from them

Maybe spend a bit less time trying to read things into statements that were never said. I didn’t listen to a word Tony Holohan said today, or most days for that matter, and don’t spend my time time hanging on every word uttered dying to be offended. When I do see a conclusion that is outright wrong, or misleading, I will point it out. Just like I will point out that the daily relaxation of restrictions that are ongoing are completely ignored in the relaxation of restrictions thread because “bald man bad”

niallo27 · 16-06-2021 11:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe spend a bit less time trying to read things into statements that were never said. I didn’t listen to a word Tony Holohan said today, or most days for that matter, and don’t spend my time time hanging on every word uttered dying to be offended. When I do see a conclusion that is outright wrong, or misleading, I will point it out. Just like I will point out that the daily relaxation of restrictions that are ongoing are completely ignored in the relaxation of restrictions thread because “bald man bad”

What daily relaxation of restrictions, what changed today or in the last week. What do you keep going on about the bald bad man, he is a rambling mess lately if you did bother to listen to him.

16-06-2021 11:32PM

niallo27 wrote: »

What daily relaxation of restrictions, what changed today or in the last week. What do you keep going on about the bald bad man, he is a rambling mess lately if you did bother to listen to him.

Every single day more and more items are announced or discussed that will enable the further unpicking of restrictions and return to normality. These are completely ignored in favour of continuous demonisation of individuals and embarrassment at not hosting a football match.

I think I get some of why ye are all so frustrated though. Imagine watching a Dail committee meeting or NPHET briefing and expecting to learn something new? Ye hang on every word at these things which tell no one nothing apart from the daily numbers

Graham · 16-06-2021 11:35PM

MOR316 wrote: »

Not trying to be bad but, your posts to me translate to, "well we know Tony is wrong about this but, to save face, let's stop talking about it."

You're really not very good at translating posts if that's what you get.

It's kinda odd watching somebody imagine you might say something and then debate the very point they've just imagined!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings