Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

1…213214216218219…342

Comments

  • #6452
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    Wouldn't surprise me if it's made up, there is some vital info being left out, there is no way a fully vaccinated healthy adult would end up in ICU over covid.

    Must be something they aren't telling us , like maybe they caught the virus between doses or shortly after 2nd (takes 10 days after 2nd to fully take effect)

    Or they actually had other illnesses, or maybe it is the tiny tiny % of unlucky people that this could possibly happen to - either way it's completely unusual and to present it as a normal occurrence and say "The pandemic rages on" is just pure scaremongering hysterical nonsense.

    edit ok, sinovac, that changes things ....

    Which is it?


  • #6453
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Well, there have been crowds in stadiums since last January in different parts of the world...

    This time, the crowds at games are being broadcast into our sitting rooms every evening....

    Awesome, let them at it.

    Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.


  • #6454
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    Well, there have been crowds in stadiums since last January in different parts of the world...

    This time, the crowds at games are being broadcast into our sitting rooms every evening....

    It does make things a little awkward doesn't it...I mean, if a guy was on the fence about our Governments pace of easing the restrictions, more and more people will turn on our politicians....public support for these draconian restrictions is vital.

    No.

    When I was watching the game last night with a pretty sparsely populated crowd at no stage did I feel awkwardness.

    The only time I felt a bit awkward was when Rüdiger looked like he bit Pogba.

    What the fúck was that about?


  • #6455
    Corby Trouser Press
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Corby Trouser Press


    Re Euro 2020 Bilbao are to be compensated to the tune of €1.2m from UEFA.

    And Sam Memes stadium is due to host the Women's Champions League Final and the Europa League Final in the future.

    All our leadership had to say about it at the time was;

    "I thought UEFA were out of order, quite frankly, putting that condition on countries," the Fianna Fáil leader said.

    "If you look at what is happening all over Europe in terms of the B117 and in terms of the high incidence in European member state countries, to be putting obligations on countries to force spectators in prematurely, in my view, was a wrong call by the footballing authorities and I never thought it was a realistic proposition if I'm honest."

    https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/taoiseach-uefa-out-of-order-over-euro-2020-conditions-1185432

    He never thought it a realistic proposition on the 11th of April.

    Yet the tournament kicked off on the 11th of June with no issues thus far.

    It is almost like the public health authorities in Europe had some sort of an ability to plan ahead and to actually see more then a few days in advance.

    That they actually saw a bigger picture.
    That they realised outdoor events were not a transmitter.
    That vaccination programmes were advancing.
    That maybe it is important to continue living and doing and creating rather then just sitting and waiting.

    You can peddle the line all you want about big bad greedy UEFA bullying cities across Europe and forcing them to host but it just doesn't stack up.

    Were the Dutch "forced" to host Eurovision a few weeks back by the all powerful European Broadcasting Union?
    Are the Tennis Majors in Roland Garros and Wimbledon this month being foisted upon the poor meek Parisians and Londoners?

    No lads, life is getting back to normal across Europe and Ireland is barely trying to catch up.

    3% capacity in Croke Park this Sunday for the Camogie League Final.

    :o


  • #6456
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    "The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?
    The kind where you're in a foreign country still struggling to cope with the disease and you're seeing people die all over the shop?

    I've seen this odd comment made all over the place, in the Torygraph most prominently, that because the disease might be suppressed in one country or one little corner of the world, that it is no longer a pandemic.

    The "pan" in "pandemic" refers to it being everywhere. And until it is being suppressed everywhere or in most places, then it's perfectly reasonable to say the pandemic rages on.


  • Advertisement
  • #6457
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Graham wrote: »
    Awesome, let them at it.

    Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.

    But it’s not a binary choice between those two things.


  • #6458
    Corby Trouser Press
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Corby Trouser Press


    Graham wrote: »
    Awesome, let them at it.

    Given the choice between our next planned relaxations and a few matches, I know which I'd chose. I suspect I know what most of the population would chose.

    Why not have both?


  • #6459
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    JRant wrote: »
    Half a million people out of work, over 1 million people on waiting lists for hospital appointments, yeah, it was a roaring success. Severe restrictions on peoples lives for prolonged periods of time is not something we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for.

    Exactly what has that got to do with the question posed by the poster to whom I replied? Viz.
    But no I don't believe that "Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe"

    Other than yet another useless out of context rant?

    Let me quote you on that specific issue.
    JRant wrote: »
    ...Try all you want but I'm not getting into a debate with you on something I didn't say.


  • #6460
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Corby Trouser Press wrote: »
    Why not have both?

    My guess because we have a measured reopening which means things are being reopened to give the maximum benefit to the most people in order of risk.

    I think that's appropriate primarily because I don't want to see us have to delay or roll-back at any point.

    Unlike the rest of the EU, our nearest neighbours are concerned about the proliferation of the Delta variant. It's not a major issue here yet, I'd rather keep it that way.


  • #6461
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Novel thought.

    Maybe some discussion about measures been taken to actually enable the entertainment industry facilitate the "Relaxation of Restrictions"

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0615/1228265-boost-of-25-million-for-festivals-and-gigs/


  • Advertisement
  • #6462
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Graham wrote: »
    My guess because we have a measured reopening which means things are being reopened to give the maximum benefit to the most people in order of risk.

    I think that's appropriate primarily because I don't want to see us have to delay or roll-back at any point.

    Unlike the rest of the EU, our nearest neighbours are concerned about the proliferation of the Delta variant. It's not a major issue here yet, I'd rather keep it that way.

    It’s difficult though to grasp how you are measuring risk in this instance. What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

    The streets are full of people drinking, crowds are meeting up, there are house parties going on. I am struggling to understand how the Aviva having 13,000 people spaced out around the arena, in a context where it can be policed and monitored by stewards and police presence on the streets outside, is some sort of huge deviation from what is happening in the country at present and what the government is already allowing people to do (both strictly speaking and in effect).

    Like I can understand that, psychologically, the very thought of having supporters inside a big stadium like the Aviva again seems like a really huge shift — it feels like a really big thing. But the mechanics of it, to me anyway, don’t seem overly different to what is actually going on in streets and laneways beside pubs — if anything it would be more strictly policed than that.


  • #6463
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,135 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Boggles wrote: »
    Indeed, but an appropriate mature analysis would look at it all in context.




    Sure.





    So in your own good time.

    Grand, I didn't say they should have reduced waiting lists so, glad we cleared that up.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #6464
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    It’s difficult though to grasp how you are measuring risk in this instance. What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

    You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

    And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

    If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

    It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

    Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.


  • #6465
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,419 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    JRant wrote: »
    Grand, I didn't say they should have reduced waiting lists so, glad we cleared that up.

    No you are just perpetually ranting and raving how they increased whilst bemoaning restrictions.

    So you didn't really have anything worthwhile to offer?


  • #6466
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Boggles wrote: »
    You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

    And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

    If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

    It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

    Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.

    Groups such as?


  • #6467
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Boggles wrote: »
    You are looking at it in clinical isolation with the benefit of hindsight.

    And TBH given what happened in England this week you would imagine certain people would be far more measured.

    If they succumbed to UEFA bully tactics and agreed to their terms, there would have been a collective shít attack nationally by invested groups claiming they wanted the same treatment.

    It's exactly what is happening in England this week, the net effective is it sows divisions and píssés large groups off. A line has to be drawn somewhere.

    Obviously the narrative on this thread that it's a national embarrassment not to host them and we are a laughing stock of Europe resides only peoples minds, the reality is no one cares.

    What UEFA bully tactics?

    Did every other nation let UEFA bully them then?


  • #6468
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    zackory wrote: »
    What UEFA bully tactics?

    Did every other nation let UEFA bully them then?

    Its absolute pony.


  • #6469
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    What significant or substantial additional risk would a 25% capacity Aviva yield?

    Don't know, don't particularly care if I'm being honest.

    I'd rather see hospitality fully reopened first as it's going to directly benefit a much higher number of people to a much larger extent.

    That said I'd have no problem with trial events running.


  • #6470
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Graham wrote: »
    Don't know, don't particularly care if I'm being honest.

    I'd rather see hospitality fully reopened first as it's going to directly benefit a much higher number of people to a much larger extent.

    That said I'd have no problem with trial events running.

    Its genuinely hard to see this any time soon. Its just the nature of our slow, cautious reopening which Tony thinks is ambitious.


  • #6471
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    zackory wrote: »
    Its genuinely hard to see this any time soon. Its just the nature of our slow, cautious reopening which Tony thinks is ambitious.

    I've seen nothing so far that would suggest the next easing of restrictions will need to be delayed.

    The only potential downside I see at the moment is the numbers vaccinated is lower than anticipated due to delays in vaccine deliveries. Hopefully that will change over the next couple of weeks.


  • Advertisement
  • #6472
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Graham wrote: »
    I've seen nothing so far that would suggest the next easing of restrictions will need to be delayed.

    That is not the full reopening of hospitality though. Its table service and all the rest.

    I know pubs that did not open last September due to not being viable under these conditions.

    Of course the government are pulling the CRSS on July 5th even though businesses have a lot of extra costs with staff etc.


  • #6473
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    zackory wrote: »
    That is not the full reopening of hospitality though. Its table service and all the rest.

    It's the next stage, I'd rather see it happen than not.


  • #6474
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Graham wrote: »
    It's the next stage, I'd rather see it happen than not.


    13000 in the Aviva wouldn't swing the decision in the grand scheme of things.

    Or if people have a set against the EURO's / UEFA there could have been similar quotas at some GAA matches last weekend, with the caveat that if cases are high attendance numbers would be reduced.

    The GAA would be much more flexible than UEFA I am sure.

    Instead we got the Iveagh gardens with people penned off like pedigree sheep at local summer village festival.


  • #6475
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    What level do you see us being in next winter? What kind of restrictions do you see the Government imposing?

    I haven't got a crystal ball, can't see into the future. I've no idea if we will even go into any sort of lockdown at all. But, and here's the important part which you previously missed, I'm not the one making paranoid predictions about the certainty of which levels we'll hit.
    zackory wrote: »
    Did you read the comment I replied to?

    If we held the Euro games we were supposed to our reopening would most likely be pushed back.

    That is absolute Bullsh1t and nothing more.

    If you can't see that for yourself then I really can't help you.

    You can't say that's bull with any level of certainty. The poster to whom you replied said it's likely that the numbers would be higher, pushing back the dates, if we'd held mass gatherings. That is not an unreasonable estimate. It IS quite likely we'd have greater numbers if there were mass gatherings, I mean the numbers would hardly be smaller, would they?

    You then said that was bull. Your only justification for doing so was that we had low numbers yesterday (the day before). The reason for those low numbers, to hammer home a point, is partly BECAUSE we had no mass gatherings. You're essentially saying "we've been cautious and the numbers are low, therefore we should have been less cautious because the numbers will still be low". There is zero logic to your train of thinking. You're like Homer Simpson buying the rock from Lisa that keeps Tigers away.
    Stormyteacup wrote: »
    Surely you can understand that based on prior form from government/NPHET, and if variant cases become an issue in the media through autumn, it’s not nutty to imagine authorities re-initiating restrictions.

    [snip]

    most likely poster was referring to then fact that large amounts of people have gathered for the last few weeks, without the stringent restrictions required for the test event, with no resulting spikes in cases.

    If numbers go back up, we WILL see reintroduction of restrictions, 100%. The whole point of the slow reopening is to minimise the chances of that happening.

    The poster was referring to the outcome of option A as justification for why we should have went for option B. There is no logic in that train of thought.
    JRant wrote: »
    Half a million people out of work, over 1 million people on waiting lists for hospital appointments, yeah, it was a roaring success.

    Severe restrictions on peoples lives for prolonged periods of time is not something we should be giving ourselves a pat on the back for.

    Genuine question: Would you have preferred nobody was out of work and the death toll increased by, say, 25%? How about 30%? 50%? At what point does it become acceptable to shut everything down?

    Because that is the literally the whole point of NPHET and the Government's approach. To weigh those two in the balance and hope you don't tip the scales one way or the other.


    seamus wrote: »
    The beauty of sovereignty.

    What's most amusing is the majority of people getting their knickers in a twist about this are the same who'd be going mental if Ireland followed the lead of other EU countries for other decisions. It's only on this occasion that somehow exercising self-determination is a bad thing.

    Nail on head. People's opinions on other people/companies/organisations change on a whim, never mind the fact that those opinions are completely contradictory.

    EU = bad, we need to get away from them...........Why aren't we doing what the rest of EU are doing?
    Christian bakery should not be forced to bake gay cake.........Twitter should not be allowed to 'censor' Trump
    I'm pro life.......lets bomb this abortion clinic

    TomSweeney wrote: »

    I posted this yesterday, why was it deleted ?
    I think it shows a mentality of some out there, "The Pandemic rages on" What kind of mindset do you need to be in to say that ?

    I replied to you and you ignored it. Here it is again, should you wish to offer a reply this time around:
    1. Why do you doubt the story?
    2. why do you think she's enjoying her friends' being hospitalised, there's no indication anywhere that I can see where you surmised this from?
    3. which people are mentally ill?......the people aged 50+ going to hospital for a disease which is infamous for killing elderly people? I'd argue that NOT going to hospital indicates signs of decreased mental faulties


  • #6476
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    zackory wrote: »
    13000 in the Aviva wouldn't swing the decision in the grand scheme of things.

    Yes, I get that you think a crowd of 13,000 people represents no risk.

    Like I said, I'm ok seeing other areas relaxed first. Areas that will benefit more people.

    I'm sure we will see sporting events return to a larger extent over the coming weeks. I understand there will be increases in July and more under consideration for August.


  • #6477
    zackory
    Closed Accounts Posts: 324 ✭✭zackory


    Deleted User wrote: »


    Your only justification for doing so was that we had low numbers yesterday (the day before). The reason for those low numbers, to hammer home a point, is partly BECAUSE we had no mass gatherings.




    Not so, I was was referring to South William street, and Tony Holohan in particular, describing it as like Jones road on All Ireland day. We saw no increase in cases since that.

    And there have been gatherings all over the country for months, uncontrolled.

    Deleted User wrote: »


    If numbers go back up, we WILL see reintroduction of restrictions, 100%.

    Now that is absolute bollox.


  • #6478
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,869 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    zackory wrote: »
    Not so, I was was referring to South William street, and Tony Holohan in particular, describing it as like Jones road on All Ireland day. We saw no increase in cases since that.

    And there have been gatherings all over the country for months, uncontrolled.

    The poster said that we'll have an increase in cases if we have more large events. Your exact words were "I'm calling bullsh1t on this......Its absolute nonsense.....Yesterday we saw 242 cases". You never mentioned anything about any streets or Tony H or anything of the sort. How in the name of Christ is anyone supposed to know what you're talking about if your thoughts and your posts aren't in cohesive step with one another?
    zackory wrote: »
    Now that is absolute bollox.

    Care to elaborate on this? Are you stating, as fact, that we will see zero tightening of the restrictions ever again as a response to increasing case numbers? Because that's more of the cognitive dissonance I posted about earlier from the anti-lockdown side.

    You seem to be implying that we'll see no more restrictions ever again and the other poster is guaranteeing that level 5 will be here by Christmas. You can't both be right.


  • #6479
    Hooter23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭Hooter23


    With over 4,000 + vaccine deaths around the world RTE and the media worldwide are now guilty of mass murder by giving false information saying the the vaccines are perfectly safe when they are clearly not


  • #6480
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,135 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    gozunda wrote: »
    Exactly what has that got to do with the question posed by the poster to whom I replied? Viz.



    Other than yet another useless out of context rant?

    Let me quote you on that specific issue.

    Good to know you are happy with so many people out of work and over 1 million on waiting lists.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Advertisement
  • #6481
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    JRant wrote: »
    Good to know you are happy with so many people out of work and over 1 million on waiting lists.

    Said nobody ever


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement