Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Joeface · 15-06-2021 10:24AM

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-06-2021 10:27AM

ELM327 wrote: »

If mazespin is still learning the car, why is he consistently behind MSC who would be doing the same?

Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)

ELM327 · 15-06-2021 10:42AM

Joeface wrote: »

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

practice sessions are not relevant though. Only race results.
Look at george russel. Great in qualifying but does nothing with it in the race - much as I like GR - and it's useless for williams as they dont get points for making Q2/Q3

In the race it's common for mick to be half a minute ahead.

ELM327 · 15-06-2021 10:45AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Probably similar reasons to why Danny Ric is struggling to learn the Mclaren.

Adaptability is a strength in a driver. Failing to adapt to a car is a fair criticism of a driver.

At this early stage in the season we can safely say Drivers like Danny Ric and Mazepin have failed to get up to speed with their cars QUICKLY. Sainz, on the other hand, appears to have gotten up to speed relatively quickly which is to his credit.
Latifi's race pace is much closer to Russell than last year (quali pace still strongly in Russell's favour. Ocon's second half of last season was much stronger than his first half. He was very close to Ric in the second half.

Drivers take time to get up to speed in cars. Doing it quickly is better than doing it slowly, but not having done it after 6 races doesn't mean they will never do it.

I've no idea whether Ric and Mazepin will ever get up to speed (you'd imagine Ric will though)

Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.

I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).

The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!

El_Duderino 09 · 15-06-2021 10:47AM

Joeface wrote: »

Cause the Gap between them at the start was large . It has come down considerably.

He was head of MSC in all the sessions of Monaco , and a few in Baku as well. As he is on the Grid the he has to improve cause he will be there for some time Given the money behind him.

That's true. His practice pace has definitely improved but his quali and race pace is still well behind Schumacher. Schumacher is much more consistent and faster than Mazepin.

Mazepin held with Schumacher for the first few laps in Baku. Then Schumacher pitted and Mazepin pitted a couple of laps later, with a 7 second gap on lap 12 when they both emerged. Then Schumacher opened up a 21s by lap 24 and then he must have spun as the gap goes to 45s.

He shows glimpses of being on Schumacher's pace, then blows it.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-06-2021 10:54AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Mick has shown that his first year in a new formula is much worse than his second - even see F2, he was much better last year than the year before. I dont think he would claim to be particlulary good at adapting quickly.

I'd expect, all things being equal in 2022, that mick will be further ahead of mazespin. (Or maze$pin if you'd prefer).

The only money driver that's been worthy of a seat this season has been stroll. The others like latifi, mazespin etc should not be on the grid. But it's always been the same. If you watched in the 90s there were plenty of Dinizs for every MSC!

Yeah I'd agree with that.

It's interesting to see who to class as a pay driver. Perez is a pay driver. Alonso and Webber both got their starts at Minardi and they only took pay drivers. Alonso has always had big sponsors (I think Telefonica in his Minardi days and Santander more recently).

I'm sure Perez money helped him get the Red Bull drive. They were very reluctant to look outside their Red Bull drivers, but mad an exception in Perez case. His millions in a pandemic couldn't have hurt his chances of getting the RB seat.

Zookey123 · 15-06-2021 07:09PM

In relation to the french GP it looks like most of the track has been resurfaced and most of the corners have been re-profiled. This was apparently done for drainage as well as more over takes. After the last few races the track has developed a reputation of a snooze fest. Hopefully these changes can bring some good racing this weekend.

Burkie1203 · 15-06-2021 07:26PM

https://twitter.com/F1Xtra_com/status/1404772470989656064?s=19

Charlie-Bravo · 15-06-2021 10:07PM

Ooh interesting. Maybe there's been a bit of a bite back by Bottas from the Baku Qualy shenanigans. Then poor performance in general from him in a not so perfect Merc!!

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 07:32AM

I wouldn't believe they're genuinely considering changing drivers mid season, based on one source. If Bottas was going to switch to William's then I wonder if they would start giving a couple of Russell FP1s towards the end of the season.

MadYaker · 16-06-2021 08:08AM

Could be BS?

ELM327 · 16-06-2021 08:40AM

This is silly season time really as both merc drivers are out of contract and bottas is underperforming.

eviltimeban · 16-06-2021 09:03AM

I think Bottas should be allowed to stay til the end of the year. It's a bit more dignified. And he's always been loyal to the team. All those years coming second to Hamilton must've been hard to take.

Russell in the Merc in 2022 will be good. Unless of course Merc screw up the new regs and they go back to being midfielders!

klose · 16-06-2021 09:08AM

With new regs next season and some uncertainty about who will be where I'm sure Mercedes want Loois to break Schumachers title record as its a great look for them, the way bottas is driving won't help that (undercuts/over cuts etc) and that's before you consider they will probably lose the constructors if he dosnt pick it up soon. No street circuits for a while (if at all?) so he has the chance to do it, if he keeps languishing in midfield I think they may pull the trigger on him.

afatbollix · 16-06-2021 09:22AM

eviltimeban wrote: »

I think Bottas should be allowed to stay til the end of the year. It's a bit more dignified. And he's always been loyal to the team. All those years coming second to Hamilton must've been hard to take.

Russell in the Merc in 2022 will be good. Unless of course Merc screw up the new regs and they go back to being midfielders!

Ya that's what will happen but it's great to have some off-track bull crap talk to keep us busy.

GR will at all times say no he hasn't spoken to Toto and will look very surprised at anyone who brings it up.

Botta's head will be melting with the pressure. For sure we're going to have a F YOU moment again this year.....

Hijpo · 16-06-2021 09:25AM

Seems very hypocritical of Toto if this is the case. It was only a few weeks ago they were throwing sh** at red bull for changing drivers. That being said, a quick swap could mean that after the last race of the season he is immediately a Merc driver.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 09:53AM

Matt Carter on Missed Apex Podcast is saying the Ocon is explicitly a Mercedes driver and they own his contract. Renault/Alpine wanted to sign him but Mercedes wouldn't let them and they only let them have him as long as they own his contract. If Mercedes wanted him next year or the year after, Alpine couldn't stop them taking him.

Joeface · 16-06-2021 10:44AM

If they were to change driver , The immediate choice wouldn't really be Russell . This car is different from last year (slightly) and they risk time adjusting if their priority was to Get back ahead of Redbull . Vandoorne is the reserve driver . Familiar with everything . They could easily say Bottas needs some personal time and Vandoorne is going to cover some races and I believe he has already driven the car.

Less messing with drivers changing teams .

what's worse is we are discussing this based on a tweet from someone with less that 200 followers ..........HOW F_IN bored are we . HA

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 10:53AM

Joeface wrote: »

If they were to change driver , The immediate choice wouldn't really be Russell . This car is different from last year (slightly) and they risk time adjusting if their priority was to Get back ahead of Redbull . Vandoorne is the reserve driver . Familiar with everything . They could easily say Bottas needs some personal time and Vandoorne is going to cover some races and I believe he has already driven the car.

Less messing with drivers changing teams .

what's worse is we are discussing this based on a tweet from someone with less that 200 followers ..........HOW F_IN bored are we . HA

George is the simulation driver for Mercedes so he's probably not far behind Vandoorne in that regard. And the fact that we think George is good adn currently drives an actual f1 car for another team means I'd say he's miles ahead of Vandoorne in the pecking order (if Hamilton or Botas got injured or got Covid)

flazio · 16-06-2021 10:56AM

Besides, who'd stand in for Vandorne in the Formula E car.

I'd go as bold as to say I believe that the three pointed star will play no further role in Estaban Ocon's career.

pjohnson · 16-06-2021 10:58AM

flazio wrote: »

Besides, who'd stand in for Vandorne in the Formula E car.

I'd go as bold as to say I believe that the three pointed star will play no further role in Estaban Ocon's career.

Esteban Gutierrez and Gary Paffett are the teams Formula E test/reserve drivers.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 11:09AM

flazio wrote: »

Besides, who'd stand in for Vandorne in the Formula E car.

I'd go as bold as to say I believe that the three pointed star will play no further role in Estaban Ocon's career.

Matt Carter said he's pretty sure the plan is to have Ocon and Russell in the Mercedes in 2022 or 2023.

Carter also suggested that Mercedes might be backing out of the sport in the next couple of the years. They currently own a third of the team and Ineos and Wolff own the other two-thirds. They have recently bought into FE and are looking at the future of the motoring industry being electric so they aren't as interested in F1 as they were in the past.

Not my opinions. I don't have a clue.

Burkie1203 · 16-06-2021 12:46PM

Joeface wrote: »

If they were to change driver , The immediate choice wouldn't really be Russell . This car is different from last year (slightly) and they risk time adjusting if their priority was to Get back ahead of Redbull . Vandoorne is the reserve driver . Familiar with everything . They could easily say Bottas needs some personal time and Vandoorne is going to cover some races and I believe he has already driven the car.

Less messing with drivers changing teams .

what's worse is we are discussing this based on a tweet from someone with less that 200 followers ..........HOW F_IN bored are we . HA

Sky sports italia reporting this is happening next season. Russell will take Bottas seat for 2022

Pen Rua · 16-06-2021 02:46PM

Well Ocon has gone and signed a three year deal at Alpine.

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1405174732601823232

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 02:55PM

Pen Rua wrote: »

Well Ocon has gone and signed a three year deal at Alpine.

https://twitter.com/LukeSmithF1/status/1405174732601823232

That's interesting. I wonder if that means severing the ties with Mercedes or is he still under a Mercedes contract.

pjohnson · 16-06-2021 03:01PM

He hasnt been contracted to the Brackley team in anyway since he joined Renault/Alpine.

The only link is through Toto Wolff being his agent (which is obviously a pretty strong "link" to Mercedes but no contracted tie)

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 03:16PM

pjohnson wrote: »

He hasnt been contracted to the Brackley team in anyway since he joined Renault/Alpine.

The only link is through Toto Wolff being his agent (which is obviously a pretty strong "link" to Mercedes but no contracted tie)

Matt Carter was talking about it as a fact that he's still explicitly under contract to Mercedes. Hard to know what the truth is. All we can do is wait and see what happens.

Charlie-Bravo · 16-06-2021 04:00PM

Maybe the classic summer break might find Russell moving teams. Maybe something being engineered to have Bottas go to something else outside of F1 by then? I just can't see Bottas hanging around for the rest of the season.

Frank Bullitt · 16-06-2021 04:02PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Matt Carter was talking about it as a fact that he's still explicitly under contract to Mercedes. Hard to know what the truth is. All we can do is wait and see what happens.

I can't see how he is under contract to Merc but has just signed for 3 years for Renault/Alpine though.

While Ocon, who spent 2019 as Mercedes' official reserve driver, rescinded his official ties to the Silver Arrows when he joined Renault – now Alpine – at the start of 2020, Wolff remains in place as the Frenchman’s manager.

This tells me the only contact now is through Wolff.

El_Duderino 09 · 16-06-2021 04:05PM

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I can't see how he is under contract to Merc but has just signed for 3 years for Renault/Alpine though.

This tells me the only contact now is through Wolff.

Things are never as simple as they sound in f1. Maybe he's just betting that Hamilton will sign a 3 year deal and he will be a Mercedes option for 2025.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

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