Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

Sobit1964 · 15-06-2021 02:02PM

We need to be more cautious. Delta might be a bad cold bro.

Covid symptoms may be changing thanks to Delta variant
New symptoms being reported are currently headache, sore throat and runny nose

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-delta-variant-symptoms-headache-b1865531.html

Bit cynical · 15-06-2021 02:07PM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We need to be more cautious. Delta might be a bad cold bro.

Covid symptoms may be changing thanks to Delta variant
New symptoms being reported are currently headache, sore throat and runny nose

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-delta-variant-symptoms-headache-b1865531.html

The danger is that if the virus evolves into a more virulent strain but with very mild symptoms that is well mitigated by vaccines and causing few or no deaths, people won't take social distancing measures serously.

ArthurDayne · 15-06-2021 02:07PM

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed, I would go as far to say 83% of the country are in the West / East / South at the weekends, most of them enjoying themselves quite normally.

I even saw a few Northern Regs.

:eek:

Great -- I mean -- I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make or what particular substantive point I've made you're objecting to ...but yes ...great.

Timmy O Toole · 15-06-2021 02:08PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

The danger is that if the virus evolves into a more virulent strain but with very mild symptoms that is well mitigated by vaccines and causing few or no deaths, people won't take social distancing measures serously.

You say it like its a bad thing.

Boggles · 15-06-2021 02:08PM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We need to be more cautious. Delta might be a bad cold bro.

Covid symptoms may be changing thanks to Delta variant
New symptoms being reported are currently headache, sore throat and runny nose

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-delta-variant-symptoms-headache-b1865531.html

That's the jist of the article all right.

This variant seems to be working slightly differently,” he explained.

“People might think they’ve just got some sort of seasonal cold and they still go out to parties and they might spread it around to six other people.

“We think this is fuelling a lot of the problem.

“The message here is that if you are young, you are going to get milder symptoms anyway.

“It might just feel like a bad cold or some funny ‘off’ feeling – but do stay at home and do get a test

Bit cynical · 15-06-2021 02:09PM

Timmy O Toole wrote: »

You say it like its a bad thing.

Sorry I was being facetious. The media have lost the run of themselves and forgotten that social distancing is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

15-06-2021 02:11PM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

We need to be more cautious. Delta might be a bad cold bro.

Covid symptoms may be changing thanks to Delta variant
New symptoms being reported are currently headache, sore throat and runny nose

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-delta-variant-symptoms-headache-b1865531.html

So if i wake up in the morning with a bad headache after a night on the beer will i have to isolate

Sobit1964 · 15-06-2021 02:12PM

Bit cynical wrote: »

Sorry I was being facetious. The media have lost the run of themselves and forgotten that social distancing is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

Your post was a little too good :cool:

gozunda · 15-06-2021 02:25PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

Honestly, where did I “laud” the North? I said it was closer to normality — a statement which you do not appear to disagree with. I don’t know why you seem to be suggesting that I disregard the role of vaccines in that. The point about me saying that the North was more open was to point out that there is already a massive “hole” in variant risk mitigation in the form of relatively free movement between the North and GB, and completely free movement across the border. This combined with the reality that people are already out and about and meeting in large crowds across the Republic (I believe Boggles used the term ‘hopping’ right, and I’m also looking across the Liffey at what looks like a fairly large demonstration at the convention centre here) makes me question to what extent 25% capacity at the Aviva was ever going to be a back-breaking straw on the camel’s back.For whatever reason, you and Boggles have dived in clumsily to what you both appear to have perceived as some form of particular-male-organ-measuring contest between North and South in respect of Covid.p.s. any reports of southern reg cars or southern people being attacked up North yet? You were warning people about that a while ago I recall, but perhaps that is indicative of what one might cheekily call an overcautious approach to risk?

So no attempt to answer the question asked? Ok then...

But noted thats again resorted to taking things taken completely out of context and add things never said Arthur

But as to "Lauding" - sure loads of it - the most recent bit this "north is closer to normality than here — with indoor dining and drinking open for a while now. I’ve been up a few times, and it’s where I’m from, and it’s been a bit more relaxed there than down here for quite some time". So yeah definitely what you've referred to as some " "some form of particular-male-organ-measuring contest between North and South" in respect of Covid" there tbf.

Seriously- it's not news to anyone that the North has rolled back their restrictions - but at least most people acknowledge why ie because of their vaccination levels. But noooo they're doing so much better and something the South - large crowds - Aviva etc etc :rolleyes:

Ps. Any further ruminations on your odd beliefs that that half the South were going up the North?

Timmy O Toole · 15-06-2021 02:27PM

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Your post was a little too good :cool:

Its hard to tell the difference these days.

seamus · 15-06-2021 02:31PM

JRant wrote: »

Was a surge in cases inevitable? Would this precieved rise in cases have translated to hospital/ICU admissions? Lots of unknowns there to say with any degree of certainty.

Nobody's making calls based on certainty, just likelihood. A surge of cases is a strong possibility if we hold large stadium events at this stage.
The safer option is to just not.

Also, I don't think we are opening anything sooner as a result of not allowing fans into the games. The dates for easing restrictions haven't been brought forward at any stage.

The point is that if we held these events, reopening would likely have to be pushed back.

Just like the UK have done.

What was to be gained by holding these events? Practically nothing.

What was to be lost? Quite a bit.

ArthurDayne · 15-06-2021 02:32PM

seamus wrote: »

In tangible terms? A surge in cases. Which inevitably leads to increased numbers in hospital, and delays in any further reopening. Evidence - look at the UK.

We refused to open stadiums early, so that we can open everything else sooner.

OK but I’m trying to understand how you are making the jump here to “disaster”. 25% Aviva capacity is what, 12-13kish? That’s a lot of space for social distancing and steward monitoring. So where is the big risk factor here? Toilets could be monitored with a queue or additional toilet facilities set outside to space it up even more. Other argument is people thronging to bars / shops in the area — but people are thronging to bars and shops anyway all over the place (the country is ‘hopping’ as Boggles says) and if anything around the Aviva there would be Guards about. The streets in town are going to be busy anyway.

I’m not seeing how, in the context of how people are going about their lives at present, a 25% full Aviva was actually going to propel us to disaster. Seems more to me that the presence of any level of risk — even simply the risk of any cases outright — was going to be risk enough for the government, rather than there being a substantial reason to think it would precipitate disaster or even a delay in reopening.

robbiezero · 15-06-2021 02:37PM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's making calls based on certainty, just likelihood. A surge of cases is a strong possibility if we hold large stadium events at this stage.
The safer option is to just not.

The point is that if we held these events, reopening would likely have to be pushed back.

Just like the UK have done.

What was to be gained by holding these events? Practically nothing.

What was to be lost? Quite a bit.

So we should expect to see this in cities that have held Euro 2020 games in about 2 weeks yes?

paw patrol · 15-06-2021 02:43PM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's making calls based on certainty, just likelihood. A surge of cases is a strong possibility if we hold large stadium events at this stage.
The safer option is to just not.
.

robbiezero wrote: »

So we should expect to see this in cities that have held Euro 2020 games in about 2 weeks yes?

we should being seeing surges based on the debauchery in dublin city of late , if that logic worked?

the safer option is to never do anything again . ever,

seamus · 15-06-2021 02:45PM

robbiezero wrote: »

So we should expect to see this in cities that have held Euro 2020 games in about 2 weeks yes?

That depends entirely on the situation in those countries.

Hosting these games would be the wrong decision for us. The spread of infection has had its own nuances in every country.

Graham · 15-06-2021 02:49PM

paw patrol wrote: »

the safer option is to never do anything again . ever,

absolutely

Would be a fairly daft approach though. I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere that makes more sense.

robbiezero · 15-06-2021 02:51PM

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's making calls based on certainty, just likelihood. A surge of cases is a strong possibility if we hold large stadium events at this stage.
The safer option is to just not.

The point is that if we held these events, reopening would likely have to be pushed back.

Just like the UK have done.

What was to be gained by holding these events? Practically nothing.

What was to be lost? Quite a bit.

The UK re-opening being pushed back has absolutely nothing to do with Euro 2020.
Why would we have had to push back re-opening?

ArthurDayne · 15-06-2021 02:52PM

gozunda wrote: »

So no attempt to answer the question asked? Ok then...

But noted thats again resorted to taking things taken completely out of context and add things never said Arthur

But as to "Lauding" - sure loads of it - the most recent bit this "north is closer to normality than here — with indoor dining and drinking open for a while now. I’ve been up a few times, and it’s where I’m from, and it’s been a bit more relaxed there than down here for quite some time". So yeah definitely what you've referred to as some " "some form of particular-male-organ-measuring contest between North and South" in respect of Covid" there tbf.

Seriously- it's not news to anyone that the North has rolled back their restrictions but at least most people acknowledge why ie because of their vaccination levels. But noooo there doing so much better and something the South - large crowds - Aviva etc etc :rolleyes:

Ps. Any further ruminations on your odd beliefs that that half the South were going up the North?

This is obtuseness and pedantry gone mad. You asked me did I think the north’s relatively advanced level of reopening was due to vaccines or something right? Yes. Yes it is. Is that OK now? At no point did I ever dispute this or suggest otherwise — but does that answer your question about the thing I never brought into question in the first place?

Right, you’re telling me that it is “lauding” the North to say that it is currently more relaxed and has been more relaxed for a while. You’ve literally agreed with this statement ...but at the same time you consider it “lauding” ...that I made a statement of fact........which you agree with? Jesus Christ — it’s on objective point. The North is more open right now, it’s not praise or lauding, it’s just the bloody reality.

I really don’t know what you want from me here — yourself and Boggles are descending into the most ludicrous levels of pedantry and picking arguments on points which you don’t seem to even dispute yourself!

Responder XY · 15-06-2021 03:06PM

seamus wrote: »

That depends entirely on the situation in those countries.

Hosting these games would be the wrong decision for us. The spread of infection has had its own nuances in every country.

No it doesn't. virus is the same here as in every other country.

Simple fact is that Ireland is getting this wrong.

irelandrover · 15-06-2021 03:09PM

robbiezero wrote: »

So we should expect to see this in cities that have held Euro 2020 games in about 2 weeks yes?

Maybe not, the government were forced to make a decision early enough. At that point there was still a lot unknown about the vaccine supply and no one really had an idea how far along they would be.

Considering Ireland weren't even involved in the matches it seems that they took a responsible decision to not host the games. That might be the wrong decision in hindsight but it doesn't mean it was wrong at the time.

py2006 · 15-06-2021 03:10PM

So with restrictions tightening for those arriving from the UK, do you think they will continue to ignore government advice or suddenly adhere?

Lots of people flying in from Uk, 10+ flights per day and some just flying in to visit family for a weekend.

paw patrol · 15-06-2021 03:15PM

Graham wrote: »

absolutely

Would be a fairly daft approach though. I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere that makes more sense.

i agree , wholeheartedly , that's why I cry at the safety first above all else notions people have.
- well maybe not cry but you know what I mean

gozunda · 15-06-2021 03:17PM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

This is obtuseness and pedantry gone mad. You asked me did I think the north’s relatively advanced level of reopening was due to vaccines or something right? Yes. Yes it is. Is that OK now? ...

Thanks. A straightforward answer. Good

Though really no need for the constant superfluous comments on wild tangents and flinging ****e. It's simply a discussion btw.

Any "obtuseness and pedantry" is your own tbf.

zackory · 15-06-2021 03:20PM

seamus wrote: »

The point is that if we held these events, reopening would likely have to be pushed back.

I'm calling bullsh1t on this.

Its absolute nonsense.

Yesterday we saw 242 cases.

gozunda · 15-06-2021 03:25PM

Responder XY wrote: »

No it doesn't. virus is the same here as in every other country.

Simple fact is that Ireland is getting this wrong.

How do you figure that out?

Bit cynical · 15-06-2021 03:33PM

seamus wrote: »

That depends entirely on the situation in those countries.

Needs more explanation I'm afraid.

Boggles · 15-06-2021 03:52PM

robbiezero wrote: »

The UK re-opening being pushed back has absolutely nothing to do with Euro 2020.

Well, it very well could be. You could argue everything up this point at least for the last month has to do with reopening being pushed out.

England are at the moment are in 'football is coming home" mode, after a plucky win against a lets face it worn Croatian side. They will go out on penos in the quarters or semis but that is beside point.

Now what happens inside the stadium may be relatively safe, but there is little controls around the festival atmosphere that happens outside and by outside I mean the entire country.

I think the restrictions at the moment over there constitute meeting 6 in your household.

That ain't conjusive to 'football is coming home" mode.

All though indoor pubs are open.

So there lies the problem, according to their scientists they may be balls deep in a third wave in the next couple of weeks, with no restrictive mitigation in play and an entire nation in festival mode. It would suggest things will only go in the one direction.

Either way, we will get a trove of data over the next 4 weeks if their scientists are proved correct.

Timmy O Toole · 15-06-2021 04:19PM

First match of the Euros with full capacity starting soon. Can't wait to see 61,000 people sitting close together sharing germs. I suspect in 2 weeks time we should see massive case numbers . Or at least if there isn't we can just say they are not reliable to tell us the truth.

Responder XY · 15-06-2021 04:34PM

gozunda wrote: »

How do you figure that out?

On the basis that everyone else has arrived at a different conclusion with the same set of circumstances.

Let's not fool ourselves and think that the Irish Public Health team are uniquely better than the public health experts in the rest of Europe

15-06-2021 04:47PM

Timmy O Toole wrote: »

First match of the Euros with full capacity starting soon. Can't wait to see 61,000 people sitting close together sharing germs. I suspect in 2 weeks time we should see massive case numbers . Or at least if there isn't we can just say they are not reliable to tell us the truth.

I can’t say that is is safe of not safe on Budapest right now to host a full capacity match. In all likelihood it may well be. We can’t be using the Orban government as a yardstick to measure good decisions on Covid matters however. 3x our per capita death rate says otherwise

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings