French Open 2021

someyoke · 14-06-2021 12:31am

forumdedum wrote: »

Federer was older? That's the sad part. At his peak no one could lace his boots.

Fed was 37 yo, 40-15 up on serve with championship point. Ballsed it up. Would have been his greatest win easily. He doesn't seem to do regrets but if he did that would be his biggest

forumdedum · 14-06-2021 12:34am

someyoke wrote: »

Fed was 37 yo, 40-15 up on serve with championship point. Ballsed it up. Would have been his greatest win easily. He doesn't seem to do regrets but if he did that would be his biggest

Yes, gifted a slam to Djokovic. Just like today in some ways

forumdedum · 14-06-2021 12:36am

glasso wrote: »

good to know.

but that's impossible so is moot.

if he managed to win the calendar slam it would be just a dissenting voice that nobody would pay much heed to

Most Fed fans were ok with Djokovic until he started beating him at every single grand slam they met at

9 years and counting.

I would need to do more research but Federer was not at his peak

14-06-2021 12:41am

forumdedum wrote: »

I would need to do more research but Federer was not at his peak

I've just done a calculation and the total career Grand Slam events Djokovic Vs Federer head-to-head is an absolutely crushing

12 to 4 in favour of Novak Djokovic

No wonder the Fed-heads just can't accept him

He has absolutely wiped the floor with dear Roger at the majors

forumdedum · 14-06-2021 12:48am

glasso wrote: »

I've just done a calculation and the total career Grand Slam events Djokovic Vs Federer head-to-head is an absolutely crushing

12 to 4 in favour of Novak Djokovic

No wonder the Fed-heads just can't accept him

He has absolutely wiped the floor with dear Roger at the majors

I used to love watching Djokovic until he turned extremely negative.

Federer is the best tennis player I have ever seen. Nothing will change my opinion on that.

14-06-2021 12:49am

forumdedum wrote: »

I used to love watching Djokovic until he turned extremely negative.

Federer is the best tennis player I have ever seen. Nothing will change my opinion on that.

until he started beating the crap out of Fed at the slams you mean :pac:

with that record it just looks like sour grapes.

it just does.

forumdedum · 14-06-2021 12:50am

glasso wrote: »

until he started beating the crap out of Fed you mean :pac:

That Wimbledon final was the last straw. Fed wrapped the slam in a bow for him. That's not winning in my book.

You have not taken the fact that the boring one is 5 years younger. That is the only reason Federer lost so much to him.

14-06-2021 12:52am

forumdedum wrote: »

That Wimbledon final was the last straw. Fed wrapped the slam in a bow for him. That's not winning in my book.

QED

Hector Savage · 14-06-2021 8:21am

forumdedum wrote: »

Crying shame Federer messed up that Wimbledon to move 2 ahead of Djokovic. Federer outclassed him and somehow lost.

Hector Savage · 14-06-2021 8:25am

lostcat wrote: »

If Nadal had put away that volley the other night he may well have won the match and, as someone said above, he would probalby have made shorter work of Tsitisipas today than Djokovic did. et voila, 21.

A lot of the younger guys have a game thats a decent fit for grass, so I wouldn't have Djokovic as hot favourite for Wimbledon, just favourite.
The US is wide open at this stage also I think so Djokovic getting to 20+ is still going to take a small bit of doing.
I think Nadal is going to need, as you say, a good slice of luck to win a slam this side of next years French. And Tsitsipas will be a year stronger by then then, Thiem might be back, and Nadal might be seeded 4 or 5.

If my Auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle!!

walshb · 14-06-2021 8:29am

forumdedum wrote: »

That Wimbledon final was the last straw. Fed wrapped the slam in a bow for him. That's not winning in my book.

You have not taken the fact that the boring one is 5 years younger. That is the only reason Federer lost so much to him.

Nole has been getting wins for 13/14 years vs Federer..

This age excuse is lame..

Since 2011, when Roger was 29/30 and still very much brilliant, he was winning and losing vs Nole..22/10 Nole since 2011..

14-06-2021 9:13am

The record at slams is actually 11-6

for ND vs Fed

I rechecked it. The counting was not so accurate lol last night

Still utterly dominant and a big reason that the Fed-heads just can't give credit to Djokovic

including a 3-1 record at Wimbledon in favour of Djokovic

whiterebel · 14-06-2021 10:10am

Just gone up 1000% in my estimation, Stefanos. I don't know how you even went on court, never mind win 2 sets. Federer should read this and have a word with himself. The ones on here calling him a bottler would want to do the same.

"Life isn't about winning or losing. It's about enjoying every single moment in life whether that's alone or with others. Living a meaningful life without misery and abjection. Lifting trophies and celebrating wins is something, but not everything. 5 minutes before entering the court my very beloved grandmother lost her battle with life. A wise woman whose faith in life, and willingness to give and provide can't be compared to any other human being that I have ever met. It's important to have more people like her in this world. Because people like her make you come alive. They make you dream. I would like to say that regardless of the day, circumstance or situation, this is entirely dedicated to her, and only her. Thank you for for raising my father. Without him this wouldn't have been possible."

Rob2D · 14-06-2021 10:15am

He found out afterwards.

Furze99 · 14-06-2021 10:17am

That's extraordinary if he got news of his granny's death just before going on court - Tsipsitas looked really calm and 'in the zone' in the first two sets. Loads of people were rooting for him. It's a great pity he didn't prevail as players of his age and skill should be winning major tournaments in big physical battles like this.

As regards the match, it seemed to turn abruptly at the end of the second set - Djok off to the bathroom for some 'magic' and Tsipsitas getting treatment. Still defies how men in their mid 30s can physically overcome young players in their prime.

C__MC · 14-06-2021 10:17am

forumdedum wrote: »

Federer set the standard on grass, Nadal eventually got to his level on that surface though in my opinion damaged his body in the process.

Federer made too much hard work of beating Roddick in Wimbledon final.

Roddick was unlucky in 04 and 09
Didn't take his chances
He had some serve mind you

C__MC · 14-06-2021 10:22am

Some of the slams Djockovic has when his back was to the wall has been ridiculous

This years FO and AO 2012 and Wimbledon 19 really stand out.

He's a remarkable athlete made of steel

C__MC · 14-06-2021 10:23am

It's actually mad warwinka is a Wimbledon away from a career slam

Haha

whiterebel · 14-06-2021 10:29am

Rob2D wrote: »

He found out afterwards.

So he's lying?

josip · 14-06-2021 10:29am

In fairness to the Nadal supporters, most now acknowledge that Djokovic is at least as good as Nadal.
A few holdout Federer supporters, no longer having the stats to argue with, are retreating behind arguments like 'most natural player', 'greatest ability', 'nicest to watch'.
It's great to read, and I am so enjoying every single one of their posts.
My only worry is that I'll run out of popcorn.
Idemo.

irelandrover · 14-06-2021 10:32am

whiterebel wrote: »

So he's lying?

What? he said she died 5 minutes before he went on court. He didnt say he found out then.

whiterebel · 14-06-2021 10:33am

irelandrover wrote: »

What? he said she died 5 minutes before he went on court. He didnt say he found out then.

Every news article is saying he found out before he went on court......I'm wondering which is it?

walshb · 14-06-2021 10:33am

josip wrote: »

In fairness to the Nadal supporters, most now acknowledge that Djokovic is at least as good as Nadal.
A few holdout Federer supporters, no longer having the stats to argue with, are retreating behind arguments like 'most natural player', 'greatest ability', 'nicest to watch'.
It's great to read, and I am so enjoying every single one of their posts.
My only worry is that I'll run out of popcorn.
Idemo.

But Fed is the nicest to watch...by far...he is so ahead of anyone in that regard for me..

Greatest tennis talent I have ever seen.

Stats and figures are a separate discussion..

Fed is up there in the top three as regards stats and figures and longevity and records..

But, alone as regards tennis brilliance/talent and skill.

I know it's all if your aunt had balls stuff, but three slam matches that stand out for me that would see Nole and Fed level as regards slams matches are the 2010/2011 U.S. semis that Fed should have finished off, and the 2019 SW19 final that he should have finished off.....

Fed could be on 23 and Nole on 17 had all worked out for Fed....

14-06-2021 10:37am

5 minutes before the match Tsitsipas was warming up on the court.

he doesn't say in his post that he knew beforehand and from his demeanour of him during the match I don't think that he knew

as I'd said I thought that he fought all the way to the end and had some great holds and most of the Djokovic breaks were very hard fought

I really believe that the experience will stand to him

when Tsitsipas said after

2 sets don't mean anything, that is what I learned

it sounds really simplistic but it's not really in the case of Djokovic and grand slams

Djokovic is the master of 5 set tennis and the pacing of it

He was able to keep calm and yet again keep believing in himself that he could do it

He's able to keep going both mentally and physically until the end of 5 sets is done if necessary

Whereas others can't do it as well, even if they have a huge lead. Most others would have crumbled also in the face of being 2 behind to come back to win 3 in a row.

Different animal

irelandrover · 14-06-2021 10:40am

whiterebel wrote: »

Every news article is saying he found out before he went on court......I'm wondering which is it?

They are all just going on his instagram post but he doesnt actually say he found out before.

MisterAnarchy · 14-06-2021 10:50am

glasso wrote: »

Djokovic is a winning machine.

He wins.

He's given up on wanting to be loved by the crowds in the stands or at home watching Tv.

He has his following now and he's focused on winning more GS titles and he's doing ok there

Has even had analytics guys working for him in the past working out the best way to do it.

The ends justifies the means is it ?

I prefer players who win with style.

Getting more Grand Slams than Federer and Nadal does not mean Djokovic is the Goat.

As I previously said I don't think that you can categorically say which player is the Goat, there are too many different variables.
Tennis is a game that has changed dramatically over the years due to advances in technology and science.

There have been huge changes in racket composition and size.
The heads are much larger now, the frames are lighter.
String technology has dramatically changed the game, and handed the advantage to returners and more defensive style players like Djokovic.
Serve and volley is now non existent.

Court surfaces have been slowed down, as has the ball.
Fast indoor courts are long gone.

Grips that would have been unusable on older wooden rackets are now commonplace.

Technique is nowhere near as important as it used to be, the racquets overcome alot of that.
Footwork isnt as important.
Players can take a huge swing at the ball now, with huge racket heads and generate previously impossible spin rates.

Its a whole different ball game.

All of this has played into Djokovics hands and to a slightly lessor extent Nadal.

Federer has had to adapt to these changes mid career.
His game became less aggressive, more conservative, it had to.

Faster courts, a faster ball, gut strings, smaller racquet head , do you honestly think Djokovic gets anywhere near Federer ?

HeidiHeidi · 14-06-2021 10:50am

whiterebel wrote: »

So he's lying?

Not to mention that he would have known she was close to the end, even if he didn't know that she'd actually passed away.

What a bizarre comment.

14-06-2021 10:54am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The ends justifies the means is it ?

I prefer players who win with style.

Getting more Grand Slams than Federer and Nadal does not mean Djokovic is the Goat.

As I previously said I don't think that you can categorically say which player is the Goat, there are too many different variables.
Tennis is a game that has changed dramatically over the years due to advances in technology and science.

There have been huge changes in racket composition and size.
The heads are much larger now, the frames are lighter.
String technology has dramatically changed the game, and handed the advantage to returners and more defensive style players like Djokovic.
Serve and volley is now non existent.

Court surfaces have been slowed down, as has the ball.
Fast indoor courts are long gone.

Grips that would have been unusable on older wooden rackets are now commonplace.

Technique is nowhere near as important as it used to be, the racquets overcome alot of that.
Footwork isnt as important.
Players can take a huge swing at the ball now, with huge racket heads and generate previously impossible spin rates.

Its a whole different ball game.

All of this has played into Djokovics and to a slightly lessor extent Nadal.

Federer has had to adapt to these changes mid career.
His game became less aggressive, more conservative, it had to .

Faster courts, a faster ball, gut strings, smaller racquet head , do you honestly think Djokovic gets anywhere near Federer ?

oh deer.

not these old revisionist history chestnuts from the Fed Fans.... again.

maybe everyone should be playing with wooden rackets with tiny heads and going by boat to New York for the US Open?

things change in the world shocker.

walshb · 14-06-2021 11:02am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Faster courts, a faster ball, gut strings, smaller racquet head , do you honestly think Djokovic gets anywhere near Federer ?

Come on...

These are the type excuses that are so biased...

Nole is an ATG in any era under any conditions...he is a superb tennis player....

He was always a superb player, from 2006 to now

In 2007 or so he beat Federer....he was aged 19/20 at the time.....Fed was 25/26 or so, and closer to his peak that Nole was to his

This talk of "gets anywhere near Federer" is nonsense.....

He has been besting him 14 years now.....the way you are trying to spin this, you'd swear Federer was in his 50s, not late 30s...

MisterAnarchy · 14-06-2021 11:06am

walshb wrote: »

Nole is an ATG in any era under any conditions...he is a superb tennis player....

He was always a superb player, from 2006 to now

I didnt say he wasn't.

The point I'm making is that luxilon strings and the courts being slowed down all played into his hands and against Federer.

Why does nobody serve and volley anymore ??

walshb · 14-06-2021 11:07am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I didnt say he wasn't.

The point I'm making is that luxilon strings and the courts being slowed down all played into his hands and against Federer.

Why does nobody serve and volley anymore ??

Played against Fed and into Nole's hands

How can you actually know this?

Fed was never your typical server and vollyer.....ala Edberg, Sampras, Becker,

14-06-2021 11:07am

besides the fact those "demon Luxilon strings" were in tennis well before Federer even won his first grand slam

Kuerten used them in 1997 to win the French Open

but some like to peddle rubbish that Fed was somehow blindsided by them when he started getting owned by Djokovic

Rob2D · 14-06-2021 11:09am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Technique is nowhere near as important as it used to be

Federer has had to adapt to these changes mid career.
His game became less aggressive, more conservative, it had to.

Quite so. Any idiot with a Pure Aero and some poly can play tennis way above their ability nowadays. You see it all the time in clubs. If I could magically change one thing in tennis it would be that everyone is forced to use Dunlop Mayplys forever. The men would be sorted from the boys real quick I can tell you.

People tend to forget that Federer is from a bygone era. He's been around so long he's beaten the 1989 FO champion FFS. Then went to win most of his titles with an old box beam 90 going up against kids swinging Babolats. That's absurd when you've experienced it. He was essentially using a knife in a gunfight most of his career. He completely re-invented himself while the others came into an already modern game.

Fed shouldn't have been able to do what he did at all. Let alone still be here.

josip · 14-06-2021 11:17am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

I didnt say he wasn't.

The point I'm making is that luxilon strings and the courts being slowed down all played into his hands and against Federer.

Why does nobody serve and volley anymore ??

Since when did 4-second, 'serve and volley' points become the be all and end all of tennis?
When I was a kid watching tennis on TV, the highlight of any game/set was a long rally, that the commentators would always draw attention to.
So now a long rally that seriously exerts the players featuring multiple drop shots, lobs and a variety of angles is something bad?

walshb · 14-06-2021 11:33am

josip wrote: »

Since when did 4-second, 'serve and volley' points become the be all and end all of tennis?
When I was a kid watching tennis on TV, the highlight of any game/set was a long rally, that the commentators would always draw attention to.
So now a long rally that seriously exerts the players featuring multiple drop shots, lobs and a variety of angles is something bad?

I like the odd serve and volley as much as anyone, but jaysus, far too much is made of it by some....it's quite fooking boring after a while...

The Edbergs and Macs were great, but far too reliant on rushing into the net at any chance....

I'd much prefer some the baseline rallies and back and forth!

14-06-2021 11:35am

josip wrote: »

Since when did 4-second, 'serve and volley' points become the be all and end all of tennis?
When I was a kid watching tennis on TV, the highlight of any game/set was a long rally, that the commentators would always draw attention to.
So now a long rally that seriously exerts the players featuring multiple drop shots, lobs and a variety of angles is something bad?

exactly.

well put.

No sport stays the same forever.

They evolve.

Rugby from the 1970's and the rugby played today are completely different. Training methods, things learned from data analytics and AI and nutrition advances etc are all technological changes too.

The type of soccer played is completely different also from a speed and physicality point of view.

Trying to pick and choose conditions or hanker for days long gone forever to rationalise Federer's diminishing record against Djokovic is frankly a little more than mildly pathetic.

Babolat900 · 14-06-2021 11:43am

There are arguments both in favour and against all three of Fedalovic for being the all time great. It's a subjective argument really though, there's no 100% objective way to answer the question as there are so many variables at play. Different people will have different criteria. How do you even compare Rod Laver against Fedalovic, it's impossible. It's almost like comparing a badminton player because the sport was so different back then.

Regardless, the levels of all three are very similar, each with different styles of course, on any given day either of them could beat each other depending on conditions, form and luck. The Fedalovic rivalry is possibly the greatest threeway rivalry in sporting history. It will be sad to see it all end when they retire.

MisterAnarchy · 14-06-2021 11:46am

glasso wrote: »

exactly.

well put.

No sport stays the same forever.

They evolve.

Rugby from the 1970's and the rugby played today are completely different. Training methods, things learned from data analytics and AI and nutrition advances etc are all technological changes too.

The type of soccer played is completely different also from a speed and physicality point of view.

Trying to pick and choose conditions or hanker for days long gone forever to rationalise Federer's diminishing record against Djokovic is frankly a little more than mildly pathetic.

Physicality in modern soccer ? There is none.
You cant tackle anymore.

As for rugby, its all about physicality now.
Huge men, walloping into each other, phase after phase of players repetitively trying to bash their way through.

Give me the older more open rugby any day.

Serve and volley can be boring I agree but variety in any sport is a good thing.
Longer rallies aren't necessarily a better thing, when you have players just hitting the ball back at each other.

A good aggressive well placed shot should be rewarded, alot of the times nowadays it isn't, the returner can get it back.

The courts need to be sped up, aggressive play should be rewarded.

murphyebass · 14-06-2021 11:49am

It’s so funny to hear Nadal and Federer fans now change their story to it’s about the “style” etc now and not the stats when they can clearly see ND is going to bypass them both.

Lots of could of and should of’s coming to the fore as well.

Funny stuff.

I like all three for various reasons but ultimately the stats are the stats and it’s looking increasingly likely that ND will come out on top here.

Fed is old
Nadal is closer to ND in age but his body is incredibly broken. Surprised he’s lasted this long tbh.
Which leaves ND who looks to be getting better if anything.
Wouldn’t surprise me one but if he holds all the slams come the end of this year.

Babolat900 · 14-06-2021 11:53am

murphyebass wrote: »

It’s so funny to hear Nadal and Federer fans now change their story to it’s about the “style” etc now and not the stats when they can clearly see ND is going to bypass them both.

Lots of could of and should of’s coming to the fore as well.

Funny stuff.

I like all three for various reasons but ultimately the stats are the stats and it’s looking increasingly likely that ND will come out on top here.

Fed is old
Nadal is closer to ND in age but his body is incredibly broken. Surprised he’s lasted this long tbh.
Which leaves ND who looks to be getting better if anything.
Wouldn’t surprise me one but if he holds all the slams come the end of this year.

Djokovic is certainly making a stronger and stronger case, especially by overtaking Federer's weeks at number 1 record, if he overtakes the slam record he'd be my pick as the greatest, but for now, I wouldn't give it to him just yet.

walshb · 14-06-2021 11:54am

I honestly don't think Nole is better now, or at his best now compared to a few years ago...

He is still superb, just not at his best....he has enough to win a few more slams...

The opposition is just not good enough to really dominate...

14-06-2021 11:55am

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Physicality in modern soccer ? There is none.
You cant tackle anymore.

As for rugby, its all about physicality now.
Huge men, walloping into each other, phase after phase of players repetitively trying to bash their way through.

Give me the older more open rugby any day.

Serve and volley can be boring I agree but variety in any sport is a good thing.
Longer rallies aren't necessarily a better thing, when you have players just hitting the ball back at each other.

A good aggressive well placed shot should be rewarded, alot of the times nowadays it isn't, the returner can get it back.

The courts need to be sped up, aggressive play should be rewarded.

you're missing the point is about change - it happens.

you can't turn back the clock

the reason some courts were slowed down a bit was precisely because serve and volley all the time was boring and very one-trick pony. it turned people off actually.

in reality a limited player like Ivanisevic should never be able to win a slam really and that's been the case since.

people want to see rallies and physicality with mobility in tennis and winners are still possible and there are still plenty in matches as there were yesterday where there were lots more winners than errors. and volleys are still in the game - not so much on the clay courts as grass obviously.

murphyebass · 14-06-2021 11:56am

Babolat900 wrote: »

Djokovic is certainly making a stronger and stronger case, especially by overtaking Federer's weeks at number 1 record, if he overtakes the slam record he'd be my pick as the greatest, but for now, I wouldn't give it to him just yet.

Fair enough but it’s inevitable.

His mentally is simply amazing. Imagine all your tennis career being basically shunned and told it’s Fed or Nadal for goat.

He’s just bided his time and steadily kept winning.

murphyebass · 14-06-2021 11:58am

walshb wrote: »

I honestly don't think Nole is better now, or at his best now compared to a few years ago...

He is still superb, just not at his best....he has enough to win a few more slams...

The opposition is just not good enough to really dominate...

Point is he doesn’t have to be his best to beat the latest crop. He proved that yesterday.

He has the better of both Nadal and Federer and on most days he’ll beat any of the new crop because they’re just not good enough.

Babolat900 · 14-06-2021 11:59am

Spare a thought for Pete Sampras who thought nobody would beat his slam record when he retired.

14-06-2021 12:00pm

murphyebass wrote: »

Point is he doesn’t have to be his best to beat the latest crop. He proved that yesterday.

He has the better of both Nadal and Federer and on most days he’ll beat any of the new crop because they’re just not good enough.

Matches over 5 sets suit Djokovic

that's why he's been able to continue winning slams. you don't need to be the best for an entire match.

the mental game and being able to raise your game the longer a match goes on plays into his hands.

If a player can't finish him off in 3 or 4 they are in trouble

he is the master of 5 set tennis

murphyebass · 14-06-2021 12:04pm

Babolat900 wrote: »

Spare a thought for Pete Sampras who thought nobody would beat his slam record when he retired.

Michael Schumacher recently surpassed by Hamilton too.

Nobody thought that’d happen but here we are unfortunately.

I absolutely can’t stand the guy but there’s no denying the stats.

He’s currently the goat of F1 and will be for a long time to come it seems.

MisterAnarchy · 14-06-2021 12:06pm

Babolat900 wrote: »

Spare a thought for Pete Sampras who thought nobody would beat his slam record when he retired.

Pete was 31 when he retired but he did have that shoulder injury.

Agassi who seemed to be a real veteran when he retired was only 35.

We have Federer 40, Nadal 35 and Djokovic at 34 still going .

Its a bit mad that players before were finished by 30, some women players were gone by 25!

whiterebel · 14-06-2021 12:08pm

irelandrover wrote: »

They are all just going on his instagram post but he doesnt actually say he found out before.

We'll probably never find out now. He won't bring it up and the journos will be too embarrassed to check, if that's what happened. For me it would explain his demeanour during the whole match. His expression didn't change from the start through 2-0 up to losing his first FO final. I think twice he gave out, once near the end. For such an emotional guy normally it was very restrained. I would have thought they would have told him to give him the option to pull out.

MisterAnarchy · 14-06-2021 12:10pm

murphyebass wrote: »

Michael Schumacher recently surpassed by Hamilton too.

Nobody thought that’d happen but here we are unfortunately.

I absolutely can’t stand the guy but there’s no denying the stats.

He’s currently the goat of F1 and will be for a long time to come it seems.

Formula 1 is a joke and has been for the last decade.

Put an old woman into Hamiltons car and she'd win the race.

French Open 2021

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